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Keep "In God we trust" on our money.....

Only 90% do.. here is some other interesting facts about what Americans believe in..



From fox news too...

I try not to base my beliefs on what a majority does....

blah blah semantics...I took an educated guess. So 90% of Americans believe in God....hmmmmm....so I guess it is ok that it says "In God We Trust" on our currency eh? But I suppose you and your 10 percent outweigh the majority. It doesn't violate the Consitution and it is a majority, therefore it is legal. What are ya afraid of there Ruffy? You are that insecure in your beliefs? A dollar bill that says, "In God We Trust," gets you all worked up? Maybe you better see a therapist and work out your childhood issues. ;) I think luvtoride is pretty secure....take some lessons from him.

I try not to base my belief on what the majority does.
Oh my hell you sound like a rebellious teenager! LMAO! So if the majority is right....you have to do the what is wrong?

You get more and more interesting every time you post.

Oh ya, I wasn't trying to uncover this Ruffy agenda. LMAO....you must think you are all that and a bag of chips! LMAO! You are killing me! Thanks for the entertainment! cheers :beer;:beer;

Hey I was meaning to ask....do you take one of those greenie save the earth bags to buy your groceries?
 
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liberal_boy.gif
 
It should be removed. Our founding fathers wanted government to have nothing to do with the church. They new the problems that arrose from the two combined..

The wording was only put on there to install fear in the "godless commies" in the 50's anyways.. Nothing more or less, just good old propaganda to help Americans define who the "real enemies" are...

blah..

Given what we currently know, all of the first five presidents and most, if not all, of the Founding Fathers believed in God. Atheism was mostly unknown among the writers of Constitution and was very rare among those of European descent in the 18th- Century.

http://earlyamericanhistory.net/founding_fathers.htm
 
While we are at it, Mr Webster's definition is:

god; 1:the extreme reality; the Being worshiped as the creator and ruler of the universe. 2: a being or object believed to have super-natural attribues and powers and to require worship. 3: a thing of supreme value. 4: an extrodonarily attractive person.

Ruff, go back and read some history. The Nation was founded on overtaxation/tyranny of a Monarchy, and the right of the people to practice whatever reglion they prescribed to, withour persecution. With this it allows even the anarchists, the right to believe in anarchy. What they did not create this country to allow any one group to have advantage over another, for either political or religious reason.

The definitons #1 sums it up for i would have to say 90% of the worlds population. 90% of the US. That can cover, Budah, Yaweh, Allah, God, and the list goes on. It is not a matter of church and state, it is a matter of FREEDOM to practice whatever religon, or lack there of.
 
http://www.treas.gov/education/fact-sheets/currency/in-god-we-trust.shtml

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Fact Sheets: Currency & Coins

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History of 'In God We Trust'
The motto IN GOD WE TRUST was placed on United States coins largely because of the increased religious sentiment existing during the Civil War. Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase received many appeals from devout persons throughout the country, urging that the United States recognize the Deity on United States coins. From Treasury Department records, it appears that the first such appeal came in a letter dated November 13, 1861. It was written to Secretary Chase by Rev. M. R. Watkinson, Minister of the Gospel from Ridleyville, Pennsylvania, and read:

Dear Sir: You are about to submit your annual report to the Congress respecting the affairs of the national finances.
One fact touching our currency has hitherto been seriously overlooked. I mean the recognition of the Almighty God in some form on our coins.

You are probably a Christian. What if our Republic were not shattered beyond reconstruction? Would not the antiquaries of succeeding centuries rightly reason from our past that we were a heathen nation? What I propose is that instead of the goddess of liberty we shall have next inside the 13 stars a ring inscribed with the words PERPETUAL UNION; within the ring the allseeing eye, crowned with a halo; beneath this eye the American flag, bearing in its field stars equal to the number of the States united; in the folds of the bars the words GOD, LIBERTY, LAW.

This would make a beautiful coin, to which no possible citizen could object. This would relieve us from the ignominy of heathenism. This would place us openly under the Divine protection we have personally claimed. From my hearth I have felt our national shame in disowning God as not the least of our present national disasters.

To you first I address a subject that must be agitated.

As a result, Secretary Chase instructed James Pollock, Director of the Mint at Philadelphia, to prepare a motto, in a letter dated November 20, 1861:
Dear Sir: No nation can be strong except in the strength of God, or safe except in His defense. The trust of our people in God should be declared on our national coins.
You will cause a device to be prepared without unnecessary delay with a motto expressing in the fewest and tersest words possible this national recognition.

It was found that the Act of Congress dated January 18, 1837, prescribed the mottoes and devices that should be placed upon the coins of the United States. This meant that the mint could make no changes without the enactment of additional legislation by the Congress. In December 1863, the Director of the Mint submitted designs for new one-cent coin, two-cent coin, and three-cent coin to Secretary Chase for approval. He proposed that upon the designs either OUR COUNTRY; OUR GOD or GOD, OUR TRUST should appear as a motto on the coins. In a letter to the Mint Director on December 9, 1863, Secretary Chase stated:
I approve your mottoes, only suggesting that on that with the Washington obverse the motto should begin with the word OUR, so as to read OUR GOD AND OUR COUNTRY. And on that with the shield, it should be changed so as to read: IN GOD WE TRUST.
The Congress passed the Act of April 22, 1864. This legislation changed the composition of the one-cent coin and authorized the minting of the two-cent coin. The Mint Director was directed to develop the designs for these coins for final approval of the Secretary. IN GOD WE TRUST first appeared on the 1864 two-cent coin.

Another Act of Congress passed on March 3, 1865. It allowed the Mint Director, with the Secretary's approval, to place the motto on all gold and silver coins that "shall admit the inscription thereon." Under the Act, the motto was placed on the gold double-eagle coin, the gold eagle coin, and the gold half-eagle coin. It was also placed on the silver dollar coin, the half-dollar coin and the quarter-dollar coin, and on the nickel three-cent coin beginning in 1866. Later, Congress passed the Coinage Act of February 12, 1873. It also said that the Secretary "may cause the motto IN GOD WE TRUST to be inscribed on such coins as shall admit of such motto."

The use of IN GOD WE TRUST has not been uninterrupted. The motto disappeared from the five-cent coin in 1883, and did not reappear until production of the Jefferson nickel began in 1938. Since 1938, all United States coins bear the inscription. Later, the motto was found missing from the new design of the double-eagle gold coin and the eagle gold coin shortly after they appeared in 1907. In response to a general demand, Congress ordered it restored, and the Act of May 18, 1908, made it mandatory on all coins upon which it had previously appeared. IN GOD WE TRUST was not mandatory on the one-cent coin and five-cent coin. It could be placed on them by the Secretary or the Mint Director with the Secretary's approval.

The motto has been in continuous use on the one-cent coin since 1909, and on the ten-cent coin since 1916. It also has appeared on all gold coins and silver dollar coins, half-dollar coins, and quarter-dollar coins struck since July 1, 1908.

A law passed by the 84th Congress (P.L. 84-140) and approved by the President on July 30, 1956, the President approved a Joint Resolution of the 84th Congress, declaring IN GOD WE TRUST the national motto of the United States. IN GOD WE TRUST was first used on paper money in 1957, when it appeared on the one-dollar silver certificate. The first paper currency bearing the motto entered circulation on October 1, 1957. The Bureau of Engraving and Printing (BEP) was converting to the dry intaglio printing process. During this conversion, it gradually included IN GOD WE TRUST in the back design of all classes and denominations of currency.

As a part of a comprehensive modernization program the BEP successfully developed and installed new high-speed rotary intaglio printing presses in 1957. These allowed BEP to print currency by the dry intaglio process, 32 notes to the sheet. One-dollar silver certificates were the first denomination printed on the new high-speed presses. They included IN GOD WE TRUST as part of the reverse design as BEP adopted new dies according to the law. The motto also appeared on one-dollar silver certificates of the 1957-A and 1957-B series.

BEP prints United States paper currency by an intaglio process from engraved plates. It was necessary, therefore, to engrave the motto into the printing plates as a part of the basic engraved design to give it the prominence it deserved.

One-dollar silver certificates series 1935, 1935-A, 1935-B, 1935-C, 1935-D, 1935-E, 1935-F, 1935-G, and 1935-H were all printed on the older flat-bed presses by the wet intaglio process. P.L. 84-140 recognized that an enormous expense would be associated with immediately replacing the costly printing plates. The law allowed BEP to gradually convert to the inclusion of IN GOD WE TRUST on the currency. Accordingly, the motto is not found on series 1935-E and 1935-F one-dollar notes. By September 1961, IN GOD WE TRUST had been added to the back design of the Series 1935-G notes. Some early printings of this series do not bear the motto. IN GOD WE TRUST appears on all series 1935-H one-dollar silver certificates.

Below is a listing by denomination of the first production and delivery dates for currency bearing IN GOD WE TRUST:

DENOMINATION PRODUCTION DELIVERY
$1 Federal Reserve Note February 12, 1964 March 11, 1964
$5 United States Note January 23, 1964 March 2, 1964
$5 Federal Reserve Note July 31, 1964 September 16, 1964
$10 Federal Reserve Note February 24, 1964 April 24, 1964
$20 Federal Reserve Note October 7, 1964 October 7, 1964
$50 Federal Reserve Note August 24, 1966 September 28, 1966
$100 Federal Reserve Note August 18, 1966 September 27, 1966
 
What has capitalism produced in history?

Most of the stuff you enjoy today.

I was gonna stay outta this, and I just can't:p

Socialism breeds neglect. It kills incentive.
Capitalism spawns invention. It grows greed.

Socialism has been tried all over the world. It has failed every single time.
Why?
IT DOESN'T WORK.
Why?
socialism removes individualism. If everyone is the same, then no one is outstanding. If everyone gets the same things regardless of effort or skill, then what is the incentive to innovate or excell?

Socialism punishes those that stand out, those that don't want government interference. In Socialism the government is father and mother.

As for religion in this country.
Deal with it. This country was founded on it.
The saying is "In God We Trust". It doesn't say what god, or what kind of trust. EVERYONE WORSHIPS SOMETHING. Whether you admit it or not. There are those that claim they don't believe in a higher being, ok. They still worship something. It might be money, or family or something.
I am sick and tired of revisionist coming in and saying they should have the right to do away with something just because THEY don't like it. Show me in the constitution where it says it is the governments job or place to ensure your happiness. People say it's not fair, who cares, life isn't fare, get over it.

Ok, rant over.

(oh, and Hi Ruffy).
 
While we are at it, Mr Webster's definition is:

god; 1:the extreme reality; the Being worshiped as the creator and ruler of the universe. 2: a being or object believed to have super-natural attribues and powers and to require worship. 3: a thing of supreme value. 4: an extrodonarily attractive person.

The definitons #1 sums it up for i would have to say 90% of the worlds population. 90% of the US. That can cover, Budah, Yaweh, Allah, God, and the list goes on. It is not a matter of church and state, it is a matter of FREEDOM to practice whatever religon, or lack there of.

Are you saying god = God? I don't think that is correct.. Anyways, in bold you state that you even think there is a difference in terminology... To me there is a difference..
 
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Socialism breeds neglect. It kills incentive.
Capitalism spawns invention. It grows greed.

Socialism has been tried all over the world. It has failed every single time.
Why?
IT DOESN'T WORK.
Why?
socialism removes individualism. If everyone is the same, then no one is outstanding. If everyone gets the same things regardless of effort or skill, then what is the incentive to innovate or excell?

blah... Neither does capitalism.. It doesn't work either! It has been tried and it has failed every time also!

Societies have proved that over and over again too.. Neither of them work. That is why most countries move to something in the middle..

And the whole invention thing, people spawn invention, regardless of economic policy. Just look at all the stuff invented by the USSR. They were keeping pace with the USA for a while there... I think that would easily negate your argument.

I think what bothers me most about this argument, is the fact that people seem to think that without a financial incentive, nothing will get done, improved, created.. That is complete bull crap. I mean look at our sleds and the amount of time we put into it, look at all the knowledge here that is being passed around with no money at all. People invent and create because THEY WANT TO FOR THEMSELVES. This will happen no matter what.
 
I think luvtoride is pretty secure....take some lessons from him.

ha ha... He even stated he would have a problem with it if he didn't agree with it.


Oh my hell you sound like a rebellious teenager! LMAO! So if the majority is right....you have to do the what is wrong?

No, I come to my own conclusions on my own. Not look at what the masses do and go along with it. Don't worry, I didn't think you would understand it. ;)

Hey I was meaning to ask....do you take one of those greenie save the earth bags to buy your groceries?


Yes, you get a discount at the grocery store for using them... After using them for a while, they do work better, and I stopped have drawers of plastic bags that I seemed to have been saving for a plastic bag shortage someday.:p

Do you ever pack a lunch with Tupperware instead of plastic bags? Same concept.
 
I think what bothers me most about this argument, is the fact that people seem to think that without a financial incentive, nothing will get done, improved, created.. That is complete bull crap. I mean look at our sleds and the amount of time we put into it, look at all the knowledge here that is being passed around with no money at all. People invent and create because THEY WANT TO FOR THEMSELVES. This will happen no matter what.

WRONG!
People invent and improve to MAKE THEIR LIVES BETTER.
As for your russian arguement. Doesn't hold water.
Russia backrupt itself trying to keep up. It is the SAME thing we are doing now.
Bankrupting our country all in the name of "fairness". Have you seen Russia? outside of the elite rulers the country SUCKS. It is dirty, the power and water systems are a joke.
It's BS.
It's not the governments job to hold your hand. It's not the governments job to make sure you can keep up with the jones.
This country was founded on personal responciblity, law and freedom.
This country was founded to escape the very systems Obama and crew are trying so desperately to impliment here.

Government of any type is repressive.
Government exist to feed itself.
Government needs the people, the people don't need the government.
 
WRONG!
People invent and improve to MAKE THEIR LIVES BETTER.

How is that different then me say "They want to"? Does everything you do in life revolve around money? Do you better yourself ever just for that sake? Do you ever go in the garage and screw around modifying something or building something without monetary gain.

Your argument is weak and discounts human ingenuity to being only about money. It is not, and I have seen it first hand...

Now I am not saying that capitalism doesn't help foster this ingenuity. It surely does. For some reason people will do very interesting things for money, and sacrifice most of there lives just for a little more of it. But to say without capitalism there would be no drive is an error.

As for your russian arguement. Doesn't hold water.
Russia backrupt itself trying to keep up. It is the SAME thing we are doing now.

Yah it does. You stated socialism doesn't allow people to invent. Well, USSR was inventing crap left and right during the cold war. So much so that we were stealing there scientists left and right...

So right there you have been proven wrong.
 
How is that different then me say "They want to"?
Your argument is weak and discounts human ingenuity to being only about money. It is not, and I have seen it first hand...

I never said it was all about money. I said socialism kills the drive to improve YOUR LOT IN THIS LIFE. Of cource there will be inventions to make life in general better, the elite always want that. They pay huge sums of money for it. That is what drove Russia into ruin.

Now I am not saying that capitalism doesn't help foster this ingenuity. It surely does. For some reason people will do very interesting things for money, and sacrifice most of there lives just for a little more of it. But to say without capitalism there would be no drive is an error.

I don't think it is wrong at all. How many medical breakthrus have been done just because the companies wanted to make millions of dollars. There will be inventions under a socialistic society for sure, it is just much slower and cubersome because of all the government intrusion. When you remove government controls inventions come faster and cheaper.

Yah it does. You stated socialism doesn't allow people to invent. Well, USSR was inventing crap left and right during the cold war. So much so that we were stealing there scientists left and right...

And if you take a close look at most of those fantastic inventions they were copied or stolen from the west.

So right there you have been proven wrong.

Not even close to wrong. THere is NO WAY you will ever convince me that government control can solve anything. Government ESPECIALLY a socialistic government stifles creativety. It gets all wrapped up in red tape and government control. Only when you remove those constraints can true creativity flow and inventions spring forth (hows that for flowery:D)

Why did we enter into a 20+ year run of super prosperity?
Why did we see a GNP grow faster and with more strenght that at any time in history?
Why did we see the GNP exceed the debt of the US?

Because Ronald Reagon removed government from our lives like no other president in the history of this country. Now if we had 20 years of prosperity with the shackles of big government removed, what does that tell you will happen when big government puts those shackles back on?
 
Not even close to wrong. THere is NO WAY you will ever convince me that government control can solve anything. Government ESPECIALLY a socialistic government stifles creativety. It gets all wrapped up in red tape and government control. Only when you remove those constraints can true creativity flow and inventions spring forth (hows that for flowery:D)


Copied and stolen from the west? Sure... only us Americans can every be smart about anything....:rolleyes:

Anyways, not sure what tangent you are taking me on.... You keep changing targets..
 
Copied and stolen from the west? Sure... only us Americans can every be smart about anything....:rolleyes:

Anyways, not sure what tangent you are taking me on.... You keep changing targets..

Changing targets? No you don't want to answer direct questions that blow your socialist argument out of the water. You have your typical libby response...dodge the questions and divert attention elsewhere.

You try to aggravate him by rolling your eyes and saying that only Americans can be smart...that has nothing to do with anything. He is arguing capitalism is prosperous...he never mentioned we have superior intelligence. You pick what you can out of an argument (putting words in people's mouths to get them worked up or at least you try) and run with it to divert. It is libby tactic 101....go get a new one...it is old and making me yawn! If anyone changes targets it is you.
 
Changing targets? No you don't want to answer direct questions that blow your socialist argument out of the water. You have your typical libby response...dodge the questions and divert attention elsewhere.

You try to aggravate him by rolling your eyes and saying that only Americans can be smart...that has nothing to do with anything. He is arguing capitalism is prosperous...he never mentioned we have superior intelligence. You pick what you can out of an argument (putting words in people's mouths to get them worked up or at least you try) and run with it to divert. It is libby tactic 101....go get a new one...it is old and making me yawn! If anyone changes targets it is you.

Pot... Kettle.... Black????

You don't even know what argument I am trying to make, and it seems Ollie lost it too:rolleyes:... Just for you
 
Copied and stolen from the west? Sure... only us Americans can every be smart about anything....:rolleyes:

Anyways, not sure what tangent you are taking me on.... You keep changing targets..

at what point in time did the "west" mean ONLY the USA?
What about Spain, France, England, Italy, United Kingdom, Germany and the rest? When did they disappear?
 
at what point in time did the "west" mean ONLY the USA?
What about Spain, France, England, Italy, United Kingdom, Germany and the rest? When did they disappear?

When you failed to clarify it? I thought we were comparing US vs. Russian/USSR, you said west, so the only one in that argument to the west is US.

Or are you saying that the USSR got it from the West, and then we got it from the USSR?

Just trying to clarify...
 
and the band played on!:p:D some good stuff being said keep it up!

hey ruffy i do believe we dialogued about this already but what form of government, if you could devise it yourself, would you prescribe for a nation? i think you would fall into the 'utopian socialist' category??? could be wrong though.

you said this in a previous post:

If everyone gave according to Jesus, you wouldn't need socialism now would you? Nor would you have rich, nor would you have poor.

what is your basis for using this argument other than trying to rib me?
 
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