Keep "In God we trust" on our money.....

[ruffryder]

and the band played on! some good stuff being said keep it up!

hey ruffy i do believe we dialogued about this already but what form of government, if you could devise it yourself, would you prescribe for a nation? i think you would fall into the 'utopian socialist' category??? could be wrong though.

you said this in a previous post:

If everyone gave according to Jesus, you wouldn't need socialism now would you? Nor would you have rich, nor would you have poor.

what is your basis for using this argument other than trying to rib me?

The argument was against what Ollie said about a moral man would never be a socialist or something like that, basically that socialism is immoral... That was what I was trying to say, that basically religion would be the mechanism for socialism instead of government...

I only know of a couple of societies that work, and they basically have no government. These are more tribal systems and function easily..

As for realistically what we need in the US... IGNFC ... I got no .... clue..

Capitalism puts the power in the rich, Socialism puts the power in the government. Both are bad.. The solution? Is a continual evolution of what we have now. If it stays constant, it will fail. If it will adapt and evolve with the times and the needs/wants of the people, then it will have a chance.

So that was basically a non-answer.. You have any clues or a point of view?

 

[MPS]

and the band played on! some good stuff being said keep it up!

hey ruffy i do believe we dialogued about this already but what form of government, if you could devise it yourself, would you prescribe for a nation? i think you would fall into the 'utopian socialist' category??? could be wrong though.

you said this in a previous post:

If everyone gave according to Jesus, you wouldn't need socialism now would you? Nor would you have rich, nor would you have poor.

what is your basis for using this argument other than trying to rib me?

...and Jesus would rebuke lazy able bodied men that can work, but don't...who stand with their hands out for freebies....kind of like the welfare lines today (of course you have good people down on their luck, which is what welfare is intended for....not generational lazy a$$es that you want to support). He taught self sufficiency and accountability too their Ruffy.

 

[woodzy]

Tyranny and I'll be in charge

 

[MTm7]

The argument was against what Ollie said about a moral man would never be a socialist or something like that, basically that socialism is immoral... That was what I was trying to say, that basically religion would be the mechanism for socialism instead of government...

I only know of a couple of societies that work, and they basically have no government. These are more tribal systems and function easily..

As for realistically what we need in the US... IGNFC ... I got no .... clue..

Capitalism puts the power in the rich, Socialism puts the power in the government. Both are bad.. The solution? Is a continual evolution of what we have now. If it stays constant, it will fail. If it will adapt and evolve with the times and the needs/wants of the people, then it will have a chance.

So that was basically a non-answer.. You have any clues or a point of view?

in bold: that is very dangerous imo. what your saying is that what people need/want is very fluid than? i guess i would say whats to determine if what the people need(perceived)/want is detrimental to the health of society? the way i see it is what people need/ want is a constant and never evolving. i think that the 'ever evolving/changing' dialect is nothing more than a ruse to move humans away from any form of absolute truth.

by the way i said that a moral man would never be a socialist. lets be clear here... lets call socialism what it is a murderous oppressive from of government.



the religious argument should be off limits... i mean you think the bible is false so why bring it up. if i had used a, particular, biblical principle you would have said 'blah'... and tried to marginalize or even belittle my thesis... you only use religious dialogue when its expedient for you.

ruffy it is obvious you dont respect people who believe in God.. am i wrong to assume that due to that sentiment you would not fight for my right to freely worship God? if it were outlawed would it be perfectly fine with you?

as to my view i too am not real sure. i think that the free market is not so free. it appears that its rigged from top to bottom. i think the main problem is that what was once valued is no longer of value and so the free market system has been corrupted in order to make the most no matter what... the ends justify the means. if man wont regulate himself(its sorta vacuous i guess) than there is a government that will... bad either way!

 

[MPS]

in bold: that is very dangerous imo. what your saying is that what people need/want is very fluid than? i guess i would say whats to determine if what the people need(perceived)/want is detrimental to the health of society? the way i see it is what people need/ want is a constant and never evolving. i think that the 'ever evolving/changing' dialect is nothing more than a ruse to move humans away from any form of absolute truth.

by the way i said that a moral man would never be a socialist. lets be clear here... lets call socialism what it is a murderous oppressive from of government.



the religious argument should be off limits... i mean you think the bible is false so why bring it up. if i had used a, particular, biblical principle you would have said 'blah'... and tried to marginalize or even belittle my thesis... you only use religious dialogue when its expedient for you.

ruffy it is obvious you dont respect people who believe in God.. am i wrong to assume that due to that sentiment you would not fight for my right to freely worship God? if it were outlawed would it be perfectly fine with you?

as to my view i too am not real sure. i think that the free market is not so free. it appears that its rigged from top to bottom. i think the main problem is that what was once valued is no longer of value and so the free market system has been corrupted in order to make the most no matter what... the ends justify the means. if man wont regulate himself(its sorta vacuous i guess) than there is a government that will... bad either way!

That right there sums up this thread. Lets go get a cold one MTm7 ....Ruffy can take his greenie bag to the market and buy some carrot juice.

 

[ruffryder]

in bold: that is very dangerous imo. what your saying is that what people need/want is very fluid than? i guess i would say whats to determine if what the people need(perceived)/want is detrimental to the health of society? the way i see it is what people need/ want is a constant and never evolving. i think that the 'ever evolving/changing' dialect is nothing more than a ruse to move humans away from any form of absolute truth.

If companies do not evolve / change, then they wither away. I would think the same would work for government. I would think the middle east would be a prime example, and so would china. Yes, wild swings from one direction to the other would be bad, and there needs to be some damping in the system which should be our leaders. People and large populations tend to be fickle, that is why power is not left up to the population.

MPS made arguments about that government should be representing the majority. Well, then why is it a problem if the majority wanted to change?

by the way i said that a moral man would never be a socialist. lets be clear here... lets call socialism what it is a murderous oppressive from of government.

So there has never been a socialist government that wasn't oppressive? Has there ever been a capitalist government that was oppressive. You seem to single out socialism as the only bad form of government. You put bad leadership in control of any form, and you will have bad / terrible results.

the religious argument should be off limits... i mean you think the bible is false so why bring it up. if i had used a, particular, biblical principle you would have said 'blah'... and tried to marginalize or even belittle my thesis... you only use religious dialogue when its expedient for you.

I guess I think that in using religious examples with a religious person, that my argument would have more merit. Seems that is not so.

ruffy it is obvious you dont respect people who believe in God.. am i wrong to assume that due to that sentiment you would not fight for my right to freely worship God? if it were outlawed would it be perfectly fine with you?

No it would not be fine with me... I don't think government should have anything to do with religion... PERIOD!!!! Only for IRS standing, that is it! I don't think it is governments business to tell people what is right or wrong in a spiritual and emotional beliefs.. Why do you say I don't respect them? mmm.. maybe I don't. I respect there right to believe anything they want, but beyond that, sometimes it gets difficult, especially when being the topic of discussion.

Funny, seems like I am the conservative on this issue, as I want less government control, and many on here are fine with it as it fits with there own paradigm....

as to my view i too am not real sure. i think that the free market is not so free. it appears that its rigged from top to bottom. i think the main problem is that what was once valued is no longer of value and so the free market system has been corrupted in order to make the most no matter what... the ends justify the means. if man wont regulate himself(its sorta vacuous i guess) than there is a government that will... bad either way!

good points... Like most things in life, the problem is us...

 

[ruffryder]

...Ruffy can take his greenie bag to the market and buy some carrot juice.

tisk tisk... for MPS...

 

[Puff_N_AK]

Are you saying god = God? I don't think that is correct.. Anyways, in bold you state that you even think there is a difference in terminology... To me there is a difference..

No i am not saying that Ruff, The Merriam-Webster's Dictionary and Thesaurus spelled it with a lower case g. I know that God is to be spelled with a capital G. I was quoting word for word.

Captialism is the system that built our country, brought us through the numerous wars, and eventually brought the largest socialist nation to its knees. If its not working why has the US not collapsed yet?

 

[MPS]

tisk tisk... for MPS...

What??????? You don't like carrot juice?

 

[Ollie]

When you failed to clarify it? I thought we were comparing US vs. Russian/USSR, you said west, so the only one in that argument to the west is US.

Or are you saying that the USSR got it from the West, and then we got it from the USSR?

Just trying to clarify...

Nice try.
Next time I will draw you a picture since common sence is out the window.
You said russia had great inventions under a socialistic government and I pointed out most of their inventions were just adaptations or outright thefts of western inventions. Your right, I assumed the term "West" would apply here the same way the rest of the entire world sees it.
My bad.

 

[Ollie]

The argument was against what Ollie said about a moral man would never be a socialist or something like that, basically that socialism is immoral... That was what I was trying to say, that basically religion would be the mechanism for socialism instead of government...

Really??
Show me where I said anything about socialism and morals or that religion has anything to do with socialism.

As a matter of fact, socialism is a contridition to religion since in order for socialism to have any chance of working, the only religion you can have is the belief that the government is an all powerfull entity.

 

[Burndown1]

It should be removed. Our founding fathers wanted government to have nothing to do with the church. They new the problems that arrose from the two combined..

The wording was only put on there to install fear in the "godless commies" in the 50's anyways.. Nothing more or less, just good old propaganda to help Americans define who the "real enemies" are...

blah..

I Pledge Aligence to the flag of the united States of america, And to the repeblic for witch it stands one nation under God. Our fonding fathers wanted nothing to do with Gov. and God. Ruffy, You are So liberal you are dumb. Kool aid dude. That should be your new name.

 

[ruffryder]

Captialism is the system that built our country, brought us through the numerous wars, and eventually brought the largest socialist nation to its knees. If its not working why has the US not collapsed yet?

Are you saying that throughout history, that even though every civilization has folded, that we are the only ones that won't?

 

[ruffryder]

Really??
Show me where I said anything about socialism and morals or that religion has anything to do with socialism.

My bad Ollie... wrong person...

yes and no... if a man has morals he cannot go against his conscience and think that socialism is good or will work. not to mention what history has taught us. as morals decline socialism becomes more palatable. but equally true, as morals decline any structure will topple... only to create a vacumn for tyranny.

As a matter of fact, socialism is a contridition to religion since in order for socialism to have any chance of working, the only religion you can have is the belief that the government is an all powerfull entity.

Though, I am not sure about the "all powerfull entity" Seems socialism is the means at which making everyone free, and most socialists view the belief in religion as a shackling of the mind..

That is what I gather anyways..

 

[ruffryder]

You said russia had great inventions under a socialistic government and I pointed out most of their inventions were just adaptations or outright thefts of western inventions.

I call bs to that effect. If that were true, then why were we stealing all of their scientists? People will invent / create no matter what, especially in the sciences. All capitalism does is allow people to invent / create for the sole purpose of gaining more money.

There have been many great minds that have come from socialism and communism.

Why do you continually state that the only reason people invent / create is due to capitalism? I create and build a lot of stuff, it has nothing to do with government at all... the motivation for it anyways..

 

[MPS]

 

[ruffryder]

wow... mps trying to make fun of someone he doesn't agree with?

Let me guess, you are one of those people that doesn't recycle just out of spite?

 

[MPS]

wow... mps trying to make fun of someone he doesn't agree with?

Let me guess, you are one of those people that doesn't recycle just out of spite?

LMAO...dude you kill me...I am just trying to get some chuckles, lighten up. I laugh at myself all the time....try it bro...it is healthy.

...and there ya go assuming again. You gotta stop that...it is a bad habit. I actually recycle. I took a load of cans in about 2 weeks ago...got my 6 bucks! That was a lot of beer for 6 bucks! LMAO Im rich Bi@tch!

 

[MPS]

hey! dont be calling me a closet greenie! haha but thanks for the green! cheers!

 

[ruffryder]

hey! dont be calling me a closet greenie! haha but thanks for the green! cheers!

sorry, you have been branded.... It is all over for you

I actually recycle. I took a load of cans in about 2 weeks ago...