Actually that is not true.
The phrase actually originated during the Civil War era
for example the first coin to bear the saying, from 1864
the motto has been in continuous use on the penny since 1909 and on the dime since 1916
Keep "In God we trust" on our money.....
- Thread starter Mafesto
- Start date
Actually that is not true.
The phrase actually originated during the Civil War era
for example the first coin to bear the saying, from 1864
the motto has been in continuous use on the penny since 1909 and on the dime since 1916
As usual you project your beliefs as facts without documentation, lets look at the rasmusson poll. When polled on the issue 53% chose Capitalism, 20% socialism, 27% not sure. The 53% worried me as In thought it very low but when they polled using the terms government controlled or free market economy the free market economy number changed to 75%. Very telling most polled did not even know what capitalism is. Swampy
Ruffy I hate to bust your bubble but there is no "seperation of church and state" in the constitution. only the requirement of free exercise thereof. A few quotes from our founding fathers on their standing on the issue:
I hope it's not to much reading for you. It's freedom of religion not freedom from religion. Swampy
FOUNDING FATHERS ON CHRISTIANITY AND FREEDOM OF RELIGION
SAMUAL ADAMS.
“ The right of the colonists as Christians..may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the great Lawgiver and head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.”
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating the minds of youth the fear and love of deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.”
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all … Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.”
Roger Sherman
“ I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, The same substance, equal in power and glory. That the Scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him.”
Patrick Henry
“ Virtue, morality and religion. This is my armor, my friend, and this alone that renders us invincible. These are the tactics we should study. If we lose these, we are conquered, fallen indeed…so long as our manners and principals remain sound, there is no danger.”
“ Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. Avitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.”
“ It cannot be emphasized to strongly or to often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
John Quincy Adams
“ The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”
“ The United States of America were no longer colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians.
Thomas Jefferson
“ I can never join Calvin in addressing his god, He was indeed an atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshiped a false god, he did.”
“ I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrine of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also.”
James Madison
“ We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principals of the Ten Commandments.”
BEN FRANKLIN
“ How many observe Christ’s Birthday! How few his precepts! O’tis easier to keep holidays than commandments.”
Benjamin Rush
“ By renouncing the Bible, philosophers swing from their moorings upon all moral subjects… It is the only correct map of the human heart that ever has been published.”
Washington’s Farewell address
27 Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
28 It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric ?
29 Promote, then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.
I hope it's not to much reading for you. It's freedom of religion not freedom from religion. Swampy
FOUNDING FATHERS ON CHRISTIANITY AND FREEDOM OF RELIGION
SAMUAL ADAMS.
“ The right of the colonists as Christians..may be best understood by reading and carefully studying the institutes of the great Lawgiver and head of the Christian Church, which are to be found clearly written and promulgated in the New Testament.”
“ Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, inculcating the minds of youth the fear and love of deity… and leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.”
“ He who made all men hath made the truths necessary to human happiness obvious to all … Our forefathers opened the Bible to all.”
Roger Sherman
“ I believe that there is one only living and true God, existing in three persons, the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost, The same substance, equal in power and glory. That the Scriptures of the old and new testaments are a revelation from God and a complete rule to direct us how we may glorify and enjoy Him.”
Patrick Henry
“ Virtue, morality and religion. This is my armor, my friend, and this alone that renders us invincible. These are the tactics we should study. If we lose these, we are conquered, fallen indeed…so long as our manners and principals remain sound, there is no danger.”
“ Bad men cannot make good citizens. It is when a people forget God that tyrants forge their chains. Avitiated state of morals, a corrupted public conscience, is incompatible with freedom. No free government, or the blessings of liberty, can be preserved to any people but by a firm adherence to justice, moderation, temperance, frugality, and virtue; and by a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles.”
“ It cannot be emphasized to strongly or to often that this great nation was founded, not by religionists, but by Christians; not on religions, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ! For this very reason peoples of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here.”
John Quincy Adams
“ The highest glory of the American Revolution was this: It connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity.”
“ The United States of America were no longer colonies. They were an independent nation of Christians.
Thomas Jefferson
“ I can never join Calvin in addressing his god, He was indeed an atheist, which I can never be; or rather his religion was Daemonism. If ever man worshiped a false god, he did.”
“ I am a real Christian, that is to say, a disciple of the doctrine of Jesus. I have little doubt that our whole country will soon be rallied to the unity of our creator and, I hope, to the pure doctrine of Jesus also.”
James Madison
“ We have staked the whole future of our new nation, not upon the power of government; far from it. We have staked the future of all our political constitutions upon the capacity of each of ourselves to govern ourselves according to the moral principals of the Ten Commandments.”
BEN FRANKLIN
“ How many observe Christ’s Birthday! How few his precepts! O’tis easier to keep holidays than commandments.”
Benjamin Rush
“ By renouncing the Bible, philosophers swing from their moorings upon all moral subjects… It is the only correct map of the human heart that ever has been published.”
Washington’s Farewell address
27 Of all the dispositions and habits, which lead to political prosperity, Religion and Morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of Patriotism, who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of Men and Citizens. The mere Politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connexions with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked, Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths, which are the instruments of investigation in Courts of Justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition, that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect, that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle.
28 It is substantially true, that virtue or morality is a necessary spring of popular government. The rule, indeed, extends with more or less force to every species of free government. Who, that is a sincere friend to it, can look with indifference upon attempts to shake the foundation of the fabric ?
29 Promote, then, as an object of primary importance, institutions for the general diffusion of knowledge. In proportion as the structure of a government gives force to public opinion, it is essential that public opinion should be enlightened.
Nice try Ruffy but as usual only present what looks to favor your personal belief.
The Barlow translation is at best a poor attempt at a paraphrase or summary of the sense of the Arabic . . . . Most extraordinary (and wholly unexplained) is the fact that Article 11 of the Barlow translation, with its famous phrase, 'the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,' does not exist at all [in the Arabic]. There is no Article 11 [in the Arabic]. The Arabic text which is between Articles 10 and 12 is in form a letter, crude and flamboyant and withal quite unimportant, from the Dey of Algiers to the Pasha of Tripoli. How that script came to be written and to be regarded, as in the Barlow translation, as Article 11 of the treaty as there written, is a mystery and seemingly must remain so. Nothing in the diplomatic correspondence of the time throws any light whatever on the point.
As usual you project your beliefs as facts without documentation, lets look at the rasmusson poll. When polled on the issue 53% chose Capitalism, 20% socialism, 27% not sure. The 53% worried me as In thought it very low but when they polled using the terms government controlled or free market economy the free market economy number changed to 75%. Very telling most polled did not even know what capitalism is. Swampy
I was wondering why it sounded so good... Though will the above is true, the Barlow translation is correct in that is what was given to the Senate and ratified. So even though it wasn't correct, that is what was agreed upon by this country.
Do I get a point?
That is my job... whats yours?
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As usual you project your beliefs as facts without documentation, lets look at the rasmusson poll. When polled on the issue 53% chose Capitalism, 20% socialism, 27% not sure. The 53% worried me as In thought it very low but when they polled using the terms government controlled or free market economy the free market economy number changed to 75%. Very telling most polled did not even know what capitalism is. Swampy
As I said a couple of times already, that statement was not meant as fact but as a rebuttle to the majority rules comment. MPS brought up the majority rules as a defense for something to be right, since he obviously agreed with it. I was trying to point out that if it came to something he did not, ie socialism, that majority rules would no longer be a valid argument..
Just trying to point out hypocracy, that is all.... I think people didn't read into the "if" very much, and I worded it sloppily too...
That is correct. But then why is a religious saying on the coins, and in public places? Would you take offense if it said "In no god we trust"?
Where does the constitution state that you can put spiritual phrases in the government?
Never got an answer to this... Wait too much reading for you now? Dang, throwing your own words right back at you.... tisk tisk... crap, this was supposed to be a quote above...
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Sorry I did not read a "majority rules" from mps, obviously I would disagree with that statement immediately as that is democratic process and we are a republic, a government of laws and not of men. Swampy
There were scoundrals in the revolutionary era and have been forever so it is understandable that something could be inserted after the fact or as in these times senators don't even read what they vote on so I will give you a point. Swampy
My job is to do everything in my power to make sure my grandchildren inherit all of the freedoms and opportunities my parents, of the greatest generation, fought so hard to give to me. Swampy
Should the motto "In God We Trust" be removed from U.S. currency? * 14529177 responses
Yes. It's a violation of the principle of separation of church and state.
12%
No. The motto has historical and patriotic significance and does nothing to establish a state religion.
88%
Not a scientific survey. Click to learn more. Results may not total 100% due to rounding.
Yes. It's a violation of the principle of separation of church and state.
12%
No. The motto has historical and patriotic significance and does nothing to establish a state religion.
88%
Not a scientific survey. Click to learn more. Results may not total 100% due to rounding.
M
MPS
Well-known member
Oh here we go again...hypocrisy (correct spelling
) huh? I knew what you were doing and I told you if the majority of this country wanted socialism I would be getting the hell out. Where is the hypocrisy? I wouldn't like it, but I would accept it and get the hell out of here with my family. This country's government has already adopted forms of socialism and as far as I know most Americans don't want socialism as their type of goverment! HMMMMM whats brewing in the air!?
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M
MPS
Well-known member
Sorry I did not read a "majority rules" from mps, obviously I would disagree with that statement immediately as that is democratic process and we are a republic, a government of laws and not of men. Swampy
correct... tyranny of the majority and all that. Bad thing...
M
MPS
Well-known member
Sorry I did not read a "majority rules" from mps, obviously I would disagree with that statement immediately as that is democratic process and we are a republic, a government of laws and not of men. Swampy
..and I completely agree with that too swampy....I believe in a democracy and a republic both as long as the democracy doesn't violate the Constitution.
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Quote:
Sorry I just went with what ruffy posted, this thread is to long to have time3 to go back and read all posts, thats why I said I didn't read majority rules, better check ruffys poist further. Give ya some green but they say I need to spread it around. Swampy
Originally Posted by swampwater
Sorry I did not read a "majority rules" from mps, obviously I would disagree with that statement immediately as that is democratic process and we are a republic, a government of laws and not of men. Swampy
..and I completely agree with that too swampy....I believe in a democracy and a republic both as long as the democracy doesn't violate the Constitution.
__________________
"The world sleeps peacefully at night because of good men willing to do violence on their behalf"
2004 800 Polaris Escape-VanAmburg tunnel, SLP twins, ported/polished, SLP airhorn kit/vents, vented hood by Tri City, Simmons.
Sorry I just went with what ruffy posted, this thread is to long to have time3 to go back and read all posts, thats why I said I didn't read majority rules, better check ruffys poist further. Give ya some green but they say I need to spread it around. Swampy
Originally Posted by swampwater
Sorry I did not read a "majority rules" from mps, obviously I would disagree with that statement immediately as that is democratic process and we are a republic, a government of laws and not of men. Swampy
..and I completely agree with that too swampy....I believe in a democracy and a republic both as long as the democracy doesn't violate the Constitution.
__________________
"The world sleeps peacefully at night because of good men willing to do violence on their behalf"
2004 800 Polaris Escape-VanAmburg tunnel, SLP twins, ported/polished, SLP airhorn kit/vents, vented hood by Tri City, Simmons.
Sorry I just went with what ruffy posted, this thread is to long to have time3 to go back and read all posts, thats why I said I didn't read majority rules, better check ruffys post further. Give ya some green but they say I need to spread it around. Swampy
Don't worry, people will listen to you, even though you won't put the time in to listen to them...
as that is democratic process and we are a republic, a government of laws and not of men. Swampy
Technically it is a democratic republic.. We democratically choose the people to represent us.
Government of laws and not of men? So what would you say about government of god? And didn't men create the laws in the first place?
Never got an answer to this... Wait too much reading for you now? Dang, throwing your own words right back at you.... tisk tisk...
