2024 catalyst

[zl5600]

Remember when the trail sleds used to get the new chassis designs first? Should they have given them this chassis with the 600 and left the ascender with a 800 available for 2024 again?

Pretty sure the old chassis ascender will be in the 2024 lineup with the 800 so you are covered.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

So what snowmobile has the highest horsepower to weight and how close are the others?

 

[summ8rmk]

I bet you will be surprised how different they are. Just like comparing an axys to a matryx. It's a surprisingly different sled to me.

Shocks play the biggest role in that feel, not the chassis.

We have 2 identical Axys Khaos sleds in our group. the only difference is 1 is an 800 and 1 is an 850. They ride completely different. The matryx ride is similar to the 800, not the 850 Axys.

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[turboless terry]

Shocks play the biggest role in that feel, not the chassis.

We have 2 identical Axys Khaos sleds in our group. the only difference is 1 is an 800 and 1 is an 850. They ride completely different. The matryx ride is similar to the 800, not the 850 Axys.

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More to the equation than just shocks

 

[sno*jet]

Toyota is not going to take a year off of NASCAR development to pump more money into Prius' because they make more money on them.
racing creates the fans. this cross country sled is looking dated in the ascender chassis, listen to what he says in beginning...

 

[ullose272]

I bet releasing a 600 first year is, at least in part, to limit the amount of orders due to continuing supply and workforce limitations. Also to clear out the rest of old chassis stuff as much as possible.

As for matryx vs axys, its not the shocks. They use the same shocks and geometry. Its the mass centralization, short tapered tunnel, new engine pickups and programming for quicker response, it all equals a better sled.

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[hansenmac]

im sure they retooled the existing 600 because they are going to keep a 600 but spending money on the 800 doesn't make sense when there not keeping it. That being said i want my 900 catalyst and i want it now. dont want to spend a bunch of money trading my 18 for a 20 or 21 or whatever and then spending a bunch to trade that on a catalyst in two years.

 

[summ8rmk]

As for matryx vs axys, its not the shocks. They use the same shocks and geometry. Its the mass centralization, short tapered tunnel, new engine pickups and programming for quicker response, it all equals a better sled.

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i said 2 identical sleds ride extremely different from each other....

Tell me why they ride differently ?

If u say it has nothing to do with shocks, ur insane.

The Matryx and Axys handle similar. If the snow isn't deep, u are hard pressed to tell them apart.
Matryx performs much better in deep snow due to the difference in chassis.
Change the shock settings on 2 identical sleds to one extreme, opposite each other, and tell me they still handle the same......


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[turboless terry]

i said 2 identical sleds ride extremely different from each other....

Tell me why they ride differently ?

If u say it has nothing to do with shocks, ur insane.

The Matryx and Axys handle similar. If the snow isn't deep, u are hard pressed to tell them apart.
Matryx performs much better in deep snow due to the difference in chassis.
Change the shock settings on 2 identical sleds to one extreme, opposite each other, and tell me they still handle the same......


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They are really similar. Same suspension. That is why I'm surprised at how different they are. I first thought an axys, with narrow tank and short tunnel, but there is more to the equation than just that.

 

[ullose272]

i said 2 identical sleds ride extremely different from each other....

Tell me why they ride differently ?

If u say it has nothing to do with shocks, ur insane.

The Matryx and Axys handle similar. If the snow isn't deep, u are hard pressed to tell them apart.
Matryx performs much better in deep snow due to the difference in chassis.
Change the shock settings on 2 identical sleds to one extreme, opposite each other, and tell me they still handle the same......


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You said identical, khaos, except one is 850 and one is 800, and they ride completely different. So they have the same suspension. Why would you think shocks are the difference? 800 is known to be quicker revving and has less rotating mass in the engine. That is the difference. 850 has more power but is also heavier and has more rotating mass. Much like going from 600 to 800, 600s have less power but are fun to ride because they feel light, but weigh nearly the same.
Matryx mass is centralized and the engine updates make it respond quicker.

Im not saying shocks dont make a huge difference

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[summ8rmk]

You said identical, khaos, except one is 850 and one is 800, and they ride completely different. So they have the same suspension. Why would you think shocks are the difference? 800 is known to be quicker revving and has less rotating mass in the engine. That is the difference. 850 has more power but is also heavier and has more rotating mass. Much like going from 600 to 800, 600s have less power but are fun to ride because they feel light, but weigh nearly the same.
Matryx mass is centralized and the engine updates make it respond quicker.

Im not saying shocks dont make a huge difference

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A third, nearly identical khaos (only 2.6 in the goup) also handles differently from the 3in sleds.
All the shocks have the valves turned to different spots, preload set different, and they all handle different. 2 800's and 2 850's. Shock settings play a bigger role in handling characteristics than the chassis change Axys - Matryx. Matryx is a better chassis, no doubt, but u can make it handle better or worse with those red and black knobs.

Back to catalyst.
It will not handle the same as an Ascender chassis. It feels more incontrol, like the difference between the Khaos and the Pro.

I would really like to see a twin rail option.




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[ullose272]

A third, nearly identical khaos (only 2.6 in the goup) also handles differently from the 3in sleds.
All the shocks have the valves turned to different spots, preload set different, and they all handle different. 2 800's and 2 850's. Shock settings play a bigger role in handling characteristics than the chassis change Axys - Matryx. Matryx is a better chassis, no doubt, but u can make it handle better or worse with those red and black knobs.

Back to catalyst.
It will not handle the same as an Ascender chassis. It feels more incontrol, like the difference between the Khaos and the Pro.

I would really like to see a twin rail option.




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Do the 3" track sleds have chaincases? Those sleds handle differently than the belt drive 2.6 sleds.

Im not arguing that shocks dont make a huge difference, there is a reason all my sleds have either been revalved or have aftermarket shocks. But the chassis of the matryx is definitely and upgrade.

And the catalyst should also be an upgrade. I say should because we all know how 2012 went

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[line8]

Catalyst is going to need to be more than 2 steps forward. Compared to current, the Matryx is on another level in just ease of riding and overall handling. Even with a better shock setup on the near current Cat.
The Axys and Cat are a little more similar.


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[turboless terry]

People will buy them. They look to have addressed all my gripes. They also look to be half way in between poo and doo by rider placement. I know they said the bars are an inch farther forward. Wait and see what they come with for a engine. I don’t forsee doo and poo being much farther ahead. They might be more refined. Depends what they come with. Bigger engine and a option for factory supercharger and I'm in.

 

[Teth-Air]

So what snowmobile has the highest horsepower to weight and how close are the others?

At what altitude? At sea level it will be the Polaris 9R I bet. Sure the boosted sles will have a bit more power but the weight will hurt the ratio. At elevation it will be the Poalris Boost with Doo turbo a close second for power but farther back due to weight.

 

[Teth-Air]

Do the 3" track sleds have chaincases? Those sleds handle differently than the belt drive 2.6 sleds.

Im not arguing that shocks dont make a huge difference, there is a reason all my sleds have either been revalved or have aftermarket shocks. But the chassis of the matryx is definitely and upgrade.

And the catalyst should also be an upgrade. I say should because we all know how 2012 went

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All Polaris mountain sleds are belt drive now.

 

[line8]

At what altitude? At sea level it will be the Polaris 9R I bet. Sure the boosted sles will have a bit more power but the weight will hurt the ratio. At elevation it will be the Poalris Boost with Doo turbo a close second for power but farther back due to weight.

And in current MY N/A I think it probably goes to Polaris 850.


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[mn.nytronut]

i ride a 18 mtn cat and havent owned poo or doo I would fall in the category of a "cat guy" In my opinion for some reason poo or doo can do something and its huge its gigantic it revolutionizes the sport, and cat can do or has already done that and its nothing. I think its the marketing group at cat not hyping there product. I've ridden 850 doo's and axys polaris and find no reason to trade brands. the axys is lightyears ahead of a pro but an 18 or newer cat does everything an axys can do and climbs better. I dont understand the fascination with the doos ive ridden 3 and they feel like 600's and ride weird, and my buddies who all ride polaris agreed so im not trying to bash thats just what our whole group thought. I think all three brands make incremental changes and at some point those changes make an old chassis unrecognizable to the point you could call it a new chassis. looks like the new cat is a clean sheet new design though maybe some carried over suspension but in my mind the bulkhead in tunnel is the chassis. I dont believe the ascender chassis was behind in functionality other than no stock turbo 2s. But they needed to change the whole thing to make any more real advancements in weight loss. I was dissapointed with the 600 only part of the deal but i am still excited about the rest of it, looks sweet and I hope cat sells a bunch of them.

850 doo feels like a 600??? and now back to Jim Acosta.

 

[steenso]

850 doo feels like a 600??? and now back to Jim Acosta.

Lol- yup Fake News

 

[MTsled3]

850 doo feels like a 600??? and now back to Jim Acosta.

I wouldn't say it feels like a 600, but the clutching on my wife's 2020 Expert was so bad in stock form that my little 800 T3 rode circles around it. SHR clutching, along with advancing the timing 1 degree helped it tremendously.

Catalyst is going to need to be more than 2 steps forward. Compared to current, the Matryx is on another level in just ease of riding and overall handling. Even with a better shock setup on the near current Cat.
The Axys and Cat are a little more similar.


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Definitely agree with this. The Catalyst and it's big new future engine may be better than anything on the snow right now... but they're shooting at a moving target. It needs to be better than, or at the very least, on par with the 2025 models from Poo and Doo. Who knows what they could be competing with by the time the 800cc+ Catalyst actually comes out.