2024 catalyst

[turboless terry]

600 is fine for some and not for others. You lose 30% of your hp at 10000 feet. That is why the western guys love turbos. Better to have and not need than need and not have.
All the others have a 600 or 650 but they also an 850 and 850 turbo. You have choices. You won't for a while with cat. Maybe keep 800 and old chassis until they do but the conversation is mute because we are talking about new chassis.
You also don't save a bunch of weight like people think. A little less rotating mass so they feel lighter than they are.
If you want a 600, buy one. It doesn't matter what i ride. I want to try new chassis but won't buy a 600 unless it is for my daughter. Also be hard not to get s 650 kaos matryx because 7s gauge will link to my wife's sled. Really cool after having it.

 

[sno*jet]

The 600 should go head to head with poo 650. Im with old n slow my next will be a 600 class if they make them lighter than the 800+, if not I will do the bigger cc like last time. Not all western riding is high enough to justify weight of the turbo for me. 6k is about the highest I go, mostly stay 3-5k. I used to have a crush on the doo 600 because it used to have the race flatland motor, now it doesnt look like you can get a summit 600 with more than like 85 horse, what a joke. But they go off sales i get it. Remember everyone hated cat when they went to snocheck only now they all do that, Cat pulled the 600 mountain sled and made an actual newbie mountain model, doo followed that too... Im hoping this 600 re-directs to the weight wars again, we seemed to be more focussed on the horsepower war at the moment like early 2000s.
when we get enough rich fat guys stuck 5' off the trail who realize its much harder than it looks in the 509 vids, they will be back at the dealer looking for something lighter, we're prob a couple years out yet. Polaris' are still getting heavier. Betcha there will be a catalyst or two on the jackson hillclimb this year generating some enthusiasm like 04 M7

 

[Old & slow]

140 hp? Not enough at altitude or with a big lug track.

First off i don't know the hp of the 600, 140 was a guess maybe its more maybe its less. As for it not being enough how would you know without riding it?

 

[NHRoadking]

First off i don't know the hp of the 600, 140 was a guess maybe its more maybe its less. As for it not being enough how would you know without riding it?

Simple physics and experience riding other 600 class machines.

A n/a motor will lose 3% hp every 1000 feet.

At 3000 feet, that 140 hp 600 is down to 127 hp! Try getting decent track speed out of a 2.5 inch or more lug in the deep stuff, never mind heavier snow.

A 600 mountain sled isn’t really a legit adult’s mountain sled. It’s not like it will be 50 pounds lighter than a comparable 800 class.

 

[Vern]

140-145hp worked perfectly fine in the mtns for years when that is what the 7-800s made. People have just become spoiled with the technology and big power sleds we have nowadays and confuse “want” with “need”. I also hear all the time these days that you won’t even make it out of the parking lot in the mtns without a minimum 162” track, but any of us that’s been riding for longer than a decade or two know that’s not the case.

Sure you might not be able to point and shoot like you can on a high hp sled, but saying a 600 won’t work in the mtns is silly. I have friends that have rode 125hp 600s for years and they seem to get everywhere us 800-850 guys do, although they may have to take a different route on occasion.

 

[Old & slow]

Simple physics and experience riding other 600 class machines.

A n/a motor will lose 3% hp every 1000 feet.

At 3000 feet, that 140 hp 600 is down to 127 hp! Try getting decent track speed out of a 2.5 inch or more lug in the deep stuff, never mind heavier snow.

A 600 mountain sled isn’t really a legit adult’s mountain sled. It’s not like it will be 50 pounds lighter than a comparable 800 class.

You are basing everything on a preconceived opinion.
Fact is you don't know until you try one.
How efficient is this chassis how good does it transfer power to the track? Don't know.

A fact is information minus emotion
An opinion is information plus experience
Ignorance is an opinion lacking information
Stupidity is an opinion that ignores a fact

 

[turboless terry]

140-145hp worked perfectly fine in the mtns for years when that is what the 7-800s made. People have just become spoiled with the technology and big power sleds we have nowadays and confuse “want” with “need”. I also hear all the time these days that you won’t even make it out of the parking lot in the mtns without a minimum 162” track, but any of us that’s been riding for longer than a decade or two know that’s not the case.

Sure you might not be able to point and shoot like you can on a high hp sled, but saying a 600 won’t work in the mtns is silly. I have friends that have rode 125hp 600s for years and they seem to get everywhere us 800-850 guys do, although they may have to take a different route on occasion.

I don't think anyone's saying they won't work. If they had same hp they will work twice as good as past sled. Look forward not back. Most dont want one. You don't save much for weight. All you save on is hp.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

I wondered why they where releasing a new platform with just a 690? Then I realized they weren’t finished with the 800.’-850 turbo. The lady basically said it by accident In Their interview at haydays. So really it’s just will it work as good or better and will it be more reliable or as reliable. I guess moneys a thing. But jeez for being the hands down winner Polaris has had a lot of reliability issues and many are not receiving them . I know everyone is right about all there issues but iam hoping the platform performs so at least cat tried hard lol. I can’t ride worth a **** and iam actually thinking about a snow bike lol!!

 

[Vern]

By saying 140hp is not enough is exactly saying it won’t work. I’m not saying everyone should want one or go out and buy one just that that power did the job at one time, why won’t it do the job now, especially in a significantly better chassis. Not everyone needs or wants a big muscle sled, nor rides like burandt or kesterke. I see all the time these days people telling others what can’t work in the mtns and having grown up riding mtns on sleds that “can’t even leave the parking lot” by social media standards, I find it just silly. If I could afford more than one of these high priced sleds I think a modern 6 would be great to have for spring riding where extra power is not needed.

 

[NHRoadking]

You are basing everything on a preconceived opinion.
Fact is you don't know until you try one.
How efficient is this chassis how good does it transfer power to the track? Don't know.

A fact is information minus emotion
An opinion is information plus experience
Ignorance is an opinion lacking information
Stupidity is an opinion that ignores a fact

An n/a 600/650 mountain sled at altitude is always going to be deficient in hp. Chassis efficiency? Transfer of power? None of that can get around the 3% rule. Only a turbo can do that.

Saying 140 hp is not enough is not saying it won't work, of course it will. It just won't work well in the mountains. That's why the market has spoken over and over. In the mountain-class, 800 plus motors rule. That's why there are 850s, 840s, turbo 850s and turbo 840s, and a 900. No significant group of riders is clamoring for a 600/650 n/a motor in the mountains. Cat is only doing it because their 800 plus motor isn't ready. They won't be clawing back any real market share with a 600 mountain sled. A 600/650 just isn't that much lighter than an 840/850 and who wants less torque and horsepower when you're spinning 2.5 to 3 inch lug, 154 to 175 tracks? No one.

The Catalyst chassis may turn out to be lighter than prior Cats, but they are going to have to be really something specials since they are already heavier than Poo or Doo to begin with. Doo lightened their 2023s even more, and they have SHOT too. Poo and Doo are not sitting still either. So, Cat's new chassis for 2024/2025 may be lighter than their current one, but it will likely not be a great deal lighter than Poos and Doos in 2024/2025.

The only current way to really lighten sleds appreciably and leapfrog the competition is with titanium, carbon fiber, and/or graphene enhance composites. All of those are pricey and not likely to end up in a widely available Doo, Poo or Cat. Go look at any of the build-videos online where someone peels off 40-50 pounds off a mountain sled and look at what it cost them. Doubtful any mainstream manufacturer is going to do that, including Cat.

And last, speculation based on facts is not stupidity just because you don't like the results. My suggestionsis to chill, have some prune juice, watch a sledding video in your VCR, and pray for a lot of snow!

 

[rkm]

Im one of the few people that have a 600 alpha with the 3" 154. You would all be surprised how good it works. If its deep, itll outrun a 800 axys with the 2.6.
Clearly its not an every day sled for a lot of riders. But I definitely agree with the comments made by McNary and Halvorson that a lot of people should be on a 600 and probably happier on one.
It also teaches you way better habits as far as line choice and carrying momentum. 90 percent of riders couldnt ride a 600 to its potential.

 

[NHRoadking]

Im one of the few people that have a 600 alpha with the 3" 154. You would all be surprised how good it works. If its deep, itll outrun a 800 axys with the 2.6.
Clearly its not an every day sled for a lot of riders. But I definitely agree with the comments made by McNary and Halvorson that a lot of people should be on a 600 and probably happier on one.
It also teaches you way better habits as far as line choice and carrying momentum. 90 percent of riders couldnt ride a 600 to its potential.

That's awesome it works for you - that is what counts!

But, for 95% or more mountain riders, they will not ride anything less than an 800 class sled. So, the market will react to that and has.

 

[goridedoo]

By saying 140hp is not enough is exactly saying it won’t work. I’m not saying everyone should want one or go out and buy one just that that power did the job at one time, why won’t it do the job now, especially in a significantly better chassis. Not everyone needs or wants a big muscle sled, nor rides like burandt or kesterke. I see all the time these days people telling others what can’t work in the mtns and having grown up riding mtns on sleds that “can’t even leave the parking lot” by social media standards, I find it just silly. If I could afford more than one of these high priced sleds I think a modern 6 would be great to have for spring riding where extra power is not needed.

An Indy 600 XLT with a 136 did the job at one time too… effff that ?

Still in the boat that I don’t care what you guys think, they aren’t gonna sell alot of 600s no matter how “efficient” the chassis is. It’s still a 600. Could it be impressive for a 600? Ya. Still a 600? Ya. A NA 850 doesn’t get it done for me fun factor wise at elevation when its deep. A 600 in this day and age belongs on the trail or under a wife/beginner.

 

[hansenmac]

probably sell a decent number of trail and crossover sleds in the midwest and east. Depending on price some will be sold for younger riders wives etc and a few guys will be too curious to not buy one. i might be too curious and ride one for a year (while keeping my mtn cat). If its really close to 400lbs put a can on for 390lbs sled with alpha track even with a 600 it would be "pretty good". not an 800 or 850 or turbo but would be a lot like a pro rmk they were 20 plus hp down but much lighter too. in the end i still want reliable 900 or so with 170 plus hp. No i cant ride it to its potential but its more fun.

 

[Pinchecharlie]

I have a 21 hardcore and ride my first time this year yesterday. This is my 2nd season on a snowmobile. I just can’t believe how fast and freaking out of control they are. I must be the only guy who wants a slower one! Nevermind getting stuck and how heavy they are. I must just be a terrible rider!!! I’d try a 600 lol!!!

 

[rkm]

That's awesome it works for you - that is what counts!

But, for 95% or more mountain riders, they will not ride anything less than an 800 class sled. So, the market will react to that and has.

Haha its the wifes sled. I only ride it when people run their mouth and need to be put in their place. That is if she lets me....

 

[Chewy22]

I think they are playing it extremely conservative and fear the ongoing supply chain issues. They would get crushed if they can't delivery on time next year. I don't think they really want to sell a ton of these sleds yet. So many uncertainties still. Also, limiting the number of units alienates the majority of buyers. I'm so fed up with auto industry right now, but a personal vehicle is more of a necessity so you just have to grin it and bare it. That is not the case with recreational vehicles. I would never play the stupid game Polaris has pulled on turbo snowchecks the last couple years; does not interest me one damn bit.

 

[sno*jet]

An n/a 600/650 mountain sled at altitude is always going to be deficient in hp. Chassis efficiency? Transfer of power? None of that can get around the 3% rule. Only a turbo can do that.

Saying 140 hp is not enough is not saying it won't work, of course it will. It just won't work well in the mountains. That's why the market has spoken over and over. In the mountain-class, 800 plus motors rule. That's why there are 850s, 840s, turbo 850s and turbo 840s, and a 900. No significant group of riders is clamoring for a 600/650 n/a motor in the mountains. Cat is only doing it because their 800 plus motor isn't ready. They won't be clawing back any real market share with a 600 mountain sled. A 600/650 just isn't that much lighter than an 840/850 and who wants less torque and horsepower when you're spinning 2.5 to 3 inch lug, 154 to 175 tracks? No one.

The Catalyst chassis may turn out to be lighter than prior Cats, but they are going to have to be really something specials since they are already heavier than Poo or Doo to begin with. Doo lightened their 2023s even more, and they have SHOT too. Poo and Doo are not sitting still either. So, Cat's new chassis for 2024/2025 may be lighter than their current one, but it will likely not be a great deal lighter than Poos and Doos in 2024/2025.

The only current way to really lighten sleds appreciably and leapfrog the competition is with titanium, carbon fiber, and/or graphene enhance composites. All of those are pricey and not likely to end up in a widely available Doo, Poo or Cat. Go look at any of the build-videos online where someone peels off 40-50 pounds off a mountain sled and look at what it cost them. Doubtful any mainstream manufacturer is going to do that, including Cat.

And last, speculation based on facts is not stupidity just because you don't like the results. My suggestionsis to chill, have some prune juice, watch a sledding video in your VCR, and pray for a lot of snow!

still lots of assumptions there. some maybe right some maybe wrong, but one thing is for sure, the styling of the new doo is terrible!! good lord, ol one eyed turtle...

 

[edgey]

There is no way a 600 is going to make 140hp! Poo's 650 is 132hp. The 16 axys 800 155 was 408 dry with a can it was sub 400# and all you cat guys said it was under powered at 150hp 800, but now your going to be happy with a light weight 600!!! ???

 

[MrIQR]

The guys who are most adamant about needing a 800+ are most likely the ones who need it the least. I can not tell you how many days I’ve spent babysitting grown men on 160”+ 800’s while I’m on a 600 144” Iqr breaking trail, telling them what lines to take and to not follow mine(cause they’ll get stuck). Most are flattering themselves thinking they need what they have when a 600 would make them a better rider but whatever, big hp and dreaming to be able to do bowties is what sells right now. It’s no different in the dirt bike world, everyone wants a 450 or 300 and they flounder in the C class.

If I can snowcheck a twin rail I’m getting one, no twin rail option and I’m not interested. The alpha rail is a failed experiment imo.