Muskoka buys 858...
- Thread starter Rob.G
- Start date
Yup it they suck , that was about 4 weeks ago and yes for me it's either winnemucca or back to Vancouver Washington where I got the sled from ,6 or 10 hour drive sucks bad , inspected the alpha clutch and all looks good will keep a close eye on it see what happens !! Keep me posted on what you are told at Carson.. thanks oh and yes it did say "Snow" under their dealer lookup .
Do you really think Cat or Doo would pay for the Heli? I don't.
I think Matt will like the Cat a lot once the warranty work gets done. Is it going to take him places his 9R won't? Probably not. Those are both great sleds with the Polaris being more refined. The Matryx chassis was pretty good from day one. I like the handling of the Polaris and I ride nuetral a lot but also wrong foot forward at times. Mine seems to tip easy enough for me most of the time to hold and edge but I am not riding at their level either. I am not a big fan of ski-doos handling but I am sure I could get used to one. The good news is there really isn't a reason to because I like the other 2 options better. In one of Muskoga's videos he made a comment when riding one of his Polaris sleds that he probably wouldn't be riding a certain zone on his Ski-doo because he just wasn't as comfortable on it in that type of terrain. I think it was one of the make it or break it type of side hills. Kind of shocked me because he is a Ski-doo guy at heart and from the beginning. He is super honest about the brands which is refreshing. Been watching Bryce Cardinal and he has been jumping back in forth with the Cat a bit also.
If Muskoka would just install proper ski rubbers to his Doos, would make huge difference. But he likes to keep em mostly stock.
I'm inferring a bit, but Muskoka seemed to be saying the Cat tended to tip over as soon as he went to wrong-foot-forward where the Matryx consistently took some input, and meanwhile he could do things from neutral on the Cat that needed wrong-foot-forward on the Matryx (or maybe were more comfortable to handle WFF anyway). I didn't sense any criticism there, just that they take a noticeably different riding style. Honestly, that might be an advantage for the Catalyst for me. I feel a lot more in control on edge from the neutral position. Granted, I still suck at technical riding, although it's starting to get there. I'm not looking to hang with the big boys either - heck, if the snow is fresh and deep, I have plenty of fun meadow mashing. I'd need to ride them back-to-back, obviously, but a sled that does most of what I want from neutral sounds like more fun than one that handles WFF better, even if that makes it more capable in technical terrain. I'm hoping Muskoka's Cat gets fixed and he has a full day with no issues. There were definitely some positives to take away from that first video; there could be a lot more as he gets used to the chassis, and assuming the mechanical issues get resolved.
I noticed the same thing when I rode mine... it's part of what wore me out so fast. A couple of times, being exhausted, I'd try to come to a stop and it'd want to tip to the right. So I'd be stopped like that. When ti was time to go again, I'd get up on the left board, and gas it to get going, but then it'd want to fall over to the left much faster than I could get back on the other side, and I fall off. Remember, I'm already tired from being grossly out of shape.. but still.
That was the issue I had trying to ride the original alpha, and somewhat with tmotion Doo's. I am a bigger person and dont need any help tipping a machine, and with everything wanting to flex, made it terrible for me to ride.
A friend has an alpha and he is much shorter and maybe 120 lbs, he needs all the help he can get to move the machine around.
I'm right in between you two... I'm 5'8 and 175 in street clothes. Before we started riding that morning, there was a meadow in the field next to the parking area, and I played around in there for a bit while my friend got dressed. I found it very easy to get up on one ski and carve around the meadow. It felt great, I was impressed. But then as the day progressed and we started heading into deeper snow, I discovered that people had been out before us (days before) and there were deep frozen tracks/trenches under a foot or more of fresh snow. As the sled would hit these tracks, I was getting tossed all over the place to the point of exhaustion... it was a case of overcorrection to overcorrection to overcorrection and when you're already getting tired, precision goes out the window.
My Khaos on the other hand... it wants to be stuck to the ground. You can get it up on a ski but it's like balancing on a razor's edge... it'll either fall flat or go all the way over; which is great for getting "on edge" for the modern riding style in powder but doesn't work so well in set-up snow. I added Ice Age Elevate spindles to it a few weeks ago, so I look forward to seeing if it'll balance better. I don't think the Catalyst is gonna work in hardpack unless you're built like Caleb Kesterke. I guess we'll see.
Honestly if somebody came up and offered me payoff on my Catalyst, I'd let it go (roughly $18,500). But I don't see that happening so it may end up being a dedicated powder sled... which in most places would be great. But in the Sierras, powder only lasts 24-48 hours max, and I can't ride midweek.
I'm looking forward to enough snow to take all four sleds out someplace with a friend and we just take turns riding every one of them and comparing them. Should make for a good time. Khaos vs Catalyst vs King Cat vs M8.
My Khaos on the other hand... it wants to be stuck to the ground. You can get it up on a ski but it's like balancing on a razor's edge... it'll either fall flat or go all the way over; which is great for getting "on edge" for the modern riding style in powder but doesn't work so well in set-up snow. I added Ice Age Elevate spindles to it a few weeks ago, so I look forward to seeing if it'll balance better. I don't think the Catalyst is gonna work in hardpack unless you're built like Caleb Kesterke. I guess we'll see.
Honestly if somebody came up and offered me payoff on my Catalyst, I'd let it go (roughly $18,500). But I don't see that happening so it may end up being a dedicated powder sled... which in most places would be great. But in the Sierras, powder only lasts 24-48 hours max, and I can't ride midweek.
I'm looking forward to enough snow to take all four sleds out someplace with a friend and we just take turns riding every one of them and comparing them. Should make for a good time. Khaos vs Catalyst vs King Cat vs M8.
I could do $1,850 today if you are interested
Granted, I have yet to ride my Alpha (been a Poo rider), but when some of you say you feel more in control riding neutral than wrong foot forward, that just makes no sense to me...I suppose on flat land, but with any technical terrain, wff is 100x easier.
For me, I have plenty of weight and strength to throw the sled around from a neutral position in most cases. wff still needed in some cases though
When you're going over old tracks on a trail, you need to go fast, skip over the ruts, the slower you go, the worse it will be.
The thing about snowmobiling is that it is different every outing. It isn't an indoor go cart track you can practice every weekend to master. It varies from the type of snow, the weather conditions, the old tracks or virgin snow, to the type of terrain. You are rarely going to be in YOUR ideal conditions, unless you only want to ride 3-4 times a season.
It takes a bunch of riding and good riders can do it and appreciate the challenges of the day. There is no magic sled or set-up that is going to suddenly make someone inexperienced a "mountain rider". Backcountry riding is challenging and not for everyone but if you put in the time it is probably the most fun you can have with your clothes on!
The thing about snowmobiling is that it is different every outing. It isn't an indoor go cart track you can practice every weekend to master. It varies from the type of snow, the weather conditions, the old tracks or virgin snow, to the type of terrain. You are rarely going to be in YOUR ideal conditions, unless you only want to ride 3-4 times a season.
It takes a bunch of riding and good riders can do it and appreciate the challenges of the day. There is no magic sled or set-up that is going to suddenly make someone inexperienced a "mountain rider". Backcountry riding is challenging and not for everyone but if you put in the time it is probably the most fun you can have with your clothes on!
The issue is in the case of our ride, those tracks were buried under fresh snow so you couldn't see them. When you can see them, I'd agree. First one would push me towards the hill, so I'd correct and next one would push me towards the side of the trail with the trees and the drop-off. Correct again, rinse and repeat. I'm sure once you're used to it and have more stamina than I do (most dead people have more stamina than I do), you should be fine.
This is my gripe with the skinny rail in my Ascender. Great in fresh snow but pinballs on me when there's stuff hiding under the surface. I discovered if I stand a bit further back on the running boards and less aggressive toward the front its better. Ride it loose with both feet on their own running boards unless I'm doing something real slow and technical. Then wrong foot forward still sometimes applies.
Riding neutral on a side hill is like trying to balance on the side of a tight rope. You need lots of momentum or you'll fall. And if anything interrupts your line, you'll fall, because you're already leaning. You need very little momentum riding wff and can even stop at any time because your balance is centered. Your shoulders are square with the world, so old tracks become a non-issue. You can overcome some of the neutral stance lean by keeping your shoulders level and lifting your down hill foot, but wff is still way easier.
We got off subject....
We got off subject....
I’m 6ft and 260-270lbs without gear, that’s all table muscle not gym muscle, and been riding an alpha for the last 5 years. I ride neutral probably 80+% of the time. Only going wff in real tight techy stuff just as boondocker says. The biggest thing I see with people that hop on an alpha and say it sucks are people that hop on and try to ride it like a dual railer. If you try to ride it as forceful as a dual rail your either spinning in circles or getting tossed. It requires very little input to get it to react, so you need to learn to be less aggressive in your riding style and you can get the alpha to do anything any other sled will do. You don’t need to carry a ton of momentum like mentioned above to sidehill in the neutral position. Pretty much just putting pressure down on one leg or the other is enough to get the sled to react. This can also be a negative in some cases if you got a good line going and for whatever reason put more weight on one leg or the other the sled will react and send you off course or tip you over. That’s about the only thing that still gets me from time to time. As far as hard snow sidehilling where everyone complains about the washout, you CANNOT spin the track like you would on a dual rail to set an edge. If you’re easy on the throttle and keep the track from spinning you can sidehill hard snow all day long. That being said, if you still want to tone down some of the alphaness, the 4 wheel rear axle works remarkably well. I ran one the last two seasons and it all but gets rid of the washout and overly quick reactions. Doesn’t completely get rid of the nimbleness of the alpha but makes it a lot more predictable. I think it feels like a happy medium between the dual rail and an alpha. I don’t intend at this point doing a 4 wheel kit when I get my 858 as a lot of people say the issues are not near as bad on the catalyst chassis, but once I’ve ridden it, if I feel otherwise, it will 100% be getting one. My biggest complaint about the alpha is probably that you can’t ride it lazy in off camber stuff, like say at the end of the day when your worn out and want to just sit down and cruise out and you have to traverse a slight incline that you could easily cut across on a traditional sled sitting down, the alpha will want to turn down with the hill. You have to pretty much constantly be in sidehill mode to cut across any kind of incline.
