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Is there any chance to actually get rid of obama care???

Brandon, my thought on that is that our economy is still extremely fragile and barely recovering. I am afraid of the detrimental effects that it could have to the economy right now that would send us back into a recession tail spin, and this one is taking far to long to dig out of as it is.

Your concerns are valid.....and obviously the best thing for everyone would be for it to go away completely.

Unfortunately I think O'care will be a reality soon.....and if thats the case...why not have gov employees and labor unions that are getting a "pass" to have to live with it as well....the more people bitching and moaning about it the quicker it may be abolished.

Theres also future strategy at stake (like it or not)....if EVERYONE takes O'care now then this will be a good thing for Reps in mid terms and in the 2016 election.

This may not be a bad move....Make the Dems own this thing completely and choke on it !
 
This may not be a bad move....Make the Dems own this thing completely and choke on it !

LOL! Kinda like how they own the 6 trillion $$$'s they have added to our debt???

Unfortunately, you may be right the only chance we probably have at this point is to let everyone suffer the consequences. Especially whe the Republican party in the Senate can't even manage to stand together on the ideal of repeal which alot of them ran election and re-election campaigns on. Even if it is a losing battle because of the minority #'s, at least stand on the principals you sold yourself on.

Wish we could throw the whole damn town out and start over from scratch!!!
 
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Is there not a "vote of non-confidence" on the House level that someone can pull out of their back pocket if a situation is this dire?
 
Is there not a "vote of non-confidence" on the House level that someone can pull out of their back pocket if a situation is this dire?

Reeb...the politics across the border is all hillbilly style...we need to send them our Green Party to smarten them up. The Inuit up north are definitely our more intelligent neighbors...:crazy::crazy:
 
I just have a hard time hearing my fellow Snowesters blame the government and cite Health Insurance companies to prove the point that Obamacare is bad for the Country.

The "facts" being presented are skewed because profits are being held in higher regard than sustaining the workforce.

I've been looking for examples of this happening in smaller companies, 20 or less employees(typical powersports industry for relevancy) but have yet to find it. Any help guys?
 
I just have a hard time hearing my fellow Snowesters blame the government and cite Health Insurance companies to prove the point that Obamacare is bad for the Country.

The "facts" being presented are skewed because profits are being held in higher regard than sustaining the workforce.

I've been looking for examples of this happening in smaller companies, 20 or less employees(typical powersports industry for relevancy) but have yet to find it. Any help guys?

I don't disagree Reeb that there are employers out there that could do better by their employees, but ya know what, they are in business to make profit. And nobody tells anybody where they have to work. If a company is so evil, go work somewhere else.
 
I just have a hard time hearing my fellow Snowesters blame the government and cite Health Insurance companies to prove the point that Obamacare is bad for the Country.

The "facts" being presented are skewed because profits are being held in higher regard than sustaining the workforce.

I've been looking for examples of this happening in smaller companies, 20 or less employees(typical powersports industry for relevancy) but have yet to find it. Any help guys?


Lets take cost out of the equation for a moment.

If you and your family paid the exact same amount per year under O'care BUT:

1. your not able to keep your doctor (fact)
2. you will have longer wait times to see a doctor ...sometimes months (highly likely)
3. may be denied coverage or a procedure that you would otherwise get now (highly likely)

OR....you could keep what you have now....which would you choose?


Also consider this program will cost the US something like $1.3 trillion now (my # may not be exact but the estimated costs have risen dramatically)

The other thing that PISSES ME OFF about this whole thing is that the Scumbag in charge has LIED about it over and over and over again..... let me ask you....if this program is so good....why would you need to lie about it??


Now let me flip this back on you.....because you clearly seem to think that its not such a bad thing.....you say:

"I just have a hard time hearing my fellow Snowesters blame the government and cite Health Insurance companies to prove the point that Obamacare is bad for the Country."

Tell us why its a GOOD thing for the country?
 
1. your not able to keep your doctor (fact)

Not (fact). Not sure where you are getting your information. You think they are bringing in Dr.'s from China? The only folks that will be seeing a different Dr. are those that have never had issuance and have only seen a Dr. at the ER at my expense. Now that they are insured they will be able to go through normal channels and establish a relationship with a Dr. in their community.
 
Not (fact). Not sure where you are getting your information. You think they are bringing in Dr.'s from China? The only folks that will be seeing a different Dr. are those that have never had issuance and have only seen a Dr. at the ER at my expense. Now that they are insured they will be able to go through normal channels and establish a relationship with a Dr. in their community.

Maybe we both need to clarify then...

If your current Dr. isnt in the "exchange" then you can certainly keep him.....but then you"ll be paying out of pocket....hence, it will cost you more....some will do this, some wont.

And I fear there will be more and more Dr's opting out of participation in the exchange.
 
I have insurance, have always had insurance and will continue to have insurance with the same carrier I have always had. I will continue to see the same Dr. I have seen for years and he is continuing to take my insurance. No more out of pocket expense than there ever was and it is quite possible I will see a reduction in my premiums, but no one know that yet.
 
Lets take cost out of the equation for a moment.

If you and your family paid the exact same amount per year under O'care BUT:

1. your not able to keep your doctor (fact)
2. you will have longer wait times to see a doctor ...sometimes months (highly likely)
3. may be denied coverage or a procedure that you would otherwise get now (highly likely)

OR....you could keep what you have now....which would you choose?


Also consider this program will cost the US something like $1.3 trillion now (my # may not be exact but the estimated costs have risen dramatically)

The other thing that PISSES ME OFF about this whole thing is that the Scumbag in charge has LIED about it over and over and over again..... let me ask you....if this program is so good....why would you need to lie about it??


Now let me flip this back on you.....because you clearly seem to think that its not such a bad thing.....you say:

"I just have a hard time hearing my fellow Snowesters blame the government and cite Health Insurance companies to prove the point that Obamacare is bad for the Country."

Tell us why its a GOOD thing for the country?

I cannot speak for speculations, nor can I speak for your "soon to be imposed" healthcare Act. However I can draw on experiences from which I have lived in.

1. The only reason I have not been able to keep my family doctor was because he retired. I found another one with a reference from my old doctor.(This is not the case by some people in Canada, however medical clinics are everywhere.
2. I've never waited a week, let alone a month to see my doctor. Specialists, that's a different story. However if it is life threatening, there are no shortages of doctors.
3. If a procedure is absolutely needed, you are not denied. There are certain instances which have impacted me personally such as; my step-father has liver disease, he's 60yrs old. However because he also has colon cancer that cannot be operated on, he is denied a new liver. Only if he was to be cancer free for 3+yrs would he be put on the waiting list for a liver. However he is taken care of in many other ways, doctor visits twice a week, Albumin treatments in the Hospital Day Care twice a week, blood work every 2 weeks etc etc. My step-father has been self-employed his entire life and does not have health coverage. His prescriptions are not covered by the government, however because my mother is a social worker for the gov't, their prescriptions are covered. Thankfully.

Back to costs, again if you tax the health care companies and kick big corporations out of funding your politicans(hey they do the same here too) the burden on the working man will be much less significant. (Reference time: The USA spends more on maintaining a 'retired' fleet of war ships than Canada does on our entire military)

I hate being lied to as well. So, I'm totally standing shoulder to shoulder with you on that one. Bullsh!t at it's finest and I despise it as much as you do by the sounds of it.

My comment that you quoted is exactly what it reads like. Don't use Health Care companies 'woes' to prove the point that people are being laid off because of this Act. These companies are spending millions and millions of dollars backing political campaigns and donating moneys that are used as tax exemptions. Hence, not paying their taxes to the government, thus making your governments rely more and more on people like yourself to make up the deficit. And what a deficit you guys have amassed.

Never once did I say it was a good thing for your Country. But health reform is needed. I suggest everyone vote for the person who shares the same beliefs and ideas as theirs, not what color button they have on their breast. Oh, and someone that isn't financed by big corporations who, in turn, are ultimately putting the pressure via the current sitting government) on the American citizen in form of more taxes and bigger deficits.

I don't claim to have the answers. However the current roadblocks that I keep hearing in this, and many other threads throughout the years just don't add up to what I've read and learned on my own. That's my only dog in this fight.
 
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I have insurance, have always had insurance and will continue to have insurance with the same carrier I have always had. I will continue to see the same Dr. I have seen for years and he is continuing to take my insurance. No more out of pocket expense than there ever was and it is quite possible I will see a reduction in my premiums, but no one know that yet.

Lets hope this turns out to be true for everyone.
 
I cannot speak for speculations, nor can I speak for your "soon to be imposed" healthcare Act. However I can draw on experiences from which I have lived in.

1. The only reason I have not been able to keep my family doctor was because he retired. I found another one with a reference from my old doctor.(This is not the case by some people in Canada, however medical clinics are everywhere.
2. I've never waited a week, let alone a month to see my doctor. Specialists, that's a different story. However if it is life threatening, there are no shortages of doctors.
3. If a procedure is absolutely needed, you are not denied. There are certain instances which have impacted me personally such as; my step-father has liver disease, he's 60yrs old. However because he also has colon cancer that cannot be operated on, he is denied a new liver. Only if he was to be cancer free for 3+yrs would he be put on the waiting list for a liver. However he is taken care of in many other ways, doctor visits twice a week, Albumin treatments in the Hospital Day Care twice a week, blood work every 2 weeks etc etc. My step-father has been self-employed his entire life and does not have health coverage. His medicine is not covered by the government, however because my mother is a social worker for the gov't, they're prescriptions are covered. Thankfully.

Back to costs, again if you tax the health care companies and kick big corporations out of funding your politicans(hey they do the same here too) the burden on the working man will be much less significant. (Reference time: The USA spends more on maintaining a 'retired' fleet of war ships than Canada does on our entire military)

I hate being lied to as well. So, I'm totally standing shoulder to shoulder with you on that one. Bullsh!t at it's finest and I despise it as much as you do by the sounds of it.

My comment that you quoted is exactly what it reads like. Don't use Health Insurance companies 'woes' to prove the point that people are being laid off because of this Act. These companies are spending millions and millions of dollars backing political campaigns and donating moneys that are used as tax exemptions. Hence, not paying their taxes to the government, thus making your governments rely more and more on people like yourself to make up the deficit. And what a deficit you guys have amassed.

Never once did I say it was a good thing for your Country. But health reform is needed. I suggest everyone vote for the person who shares the same beliefs and ideas as theirs, not what color button they have on their breast. Oh, and someone that isn't financed by big corporations who, in turn, are ultimately putting the pressure via the current sitting government) on the American citizen in form of more taxes and bigger deficits.

I don't claim to have the answers. However the current roadblocks that I keep hearing in this, and many other threads throughout the years just don't add up to what I've read and learned on my own. That's my only dog in this fight.


I appreciate your comments....and wish the best for your step-father and mother.
 
i have this crazy notion that all people are equal, that healthcare, housing, electricity, food and clothing should b free....oh i read some where there is the security of the person(citizen). i believe these simple things should be provided by our gov't because we allow them to use our lands to generate massive wealth.....maybe they should spread the wealth around a little....obamacare lol,

would be nice if the citizen(person) would try a little self governance for a change....i mean do u really need someone telling u the way it is or do we have a choice?

what is the governments mandate? it is to make money. just like any other buisness,
 
what is the governments mandate? it is to make money. just like any other buisness,

The worst run businesses in most instances. Just look at our growing deficits. haha....I hate laughing at that fact....but I gotta laugh at a joke.
 
The worst run businesses in most instances. Just look at our growing deficits. haha....I hate laughing at that fact....but I gotta laugh at a joke.


yes there is a deficit....but the real owners of the country r getting rich, and the deficit is on the people, good deal for them.
 
I have insurance, have always had insurance and will continue to have insurance with the same carrier I have always had. I will continue to see the same Dr. I have seen for years and he is continuing to take my insurance. No more out of pocket expense than there ever was and it is quite possible I will see a reduction in my premiums, but no one know that yet.

Do you honestly think that?

The ones that are going to benefit least from this mess I believe are the ones that need this program the least. Paying higher rates thru your carrier.
 
Obamacare vs Canadian Health care

If any of you Americans out there think that government run health care is the answer you are wrong!
I am a Canadian who has paid taxes all my life and finally retired 4 years ago. All my life I have worked hard to stay in shape and maintain a high level of fitness. Just after I retired I shredded my rotator cuff , labrum and bicep tendon, making my right arm pretty much useless. I waited 6 months just to see a othropedic surgeon, another month for an MRI ( even though my surgeon put me on the fast track) and another year and a half for my surgery. When I finally got my surgery the surgeon could not do it with a scope because the tendons had rolled up into the shoulder over time. He had to cut me open and do the repair, which resulted in my rehab being much longer.
If I had been someone who worked with his hands for a living, I would not have been able to work for almost 3 years.
Now I have developed a problem with my knee which requires surgery. I have days when it really hurts just to walk around. I have been waiting to see the surgeon since May. I called his office a couple of days ago and they told me I would be able to see him sometime between now and Christmas. Who knows when I will get the surgery? To get some relief I have been seeing a massage therapist, who tells me that the injury to my knee is causing me to walk improperly and if not corrected I will develop hip problems. In addition, the injury is preventing me from maintain my fitness levels. Once again, if I was a tradesman, I would not be able to work.
This is what you get for working hard to keep in shape, and paying taxes for 40 years. If you are a drug addict who gets stabbed over a drug deal gone bad you will get you surgery tomorrow! Us Canadians call our system "Universal Health care" . The only problem is ....it is universally ****ty for everyone...the drug addict who has never paid taxes all his life or the working guy who works all his life and pays for the system.
The rich have no problem...if they need surgery they go to the US and pay the best surgeons ( many of whom are Canadians who left the Canadian system out of frustration) to have the surgery there.
My wife is an RN who works in the system...she comes home with horror stories every day.
If you want to see a good thing get screwed up... let the government run it.
 
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