Is there any chance to actually get rid of obama care???

[BikerPepe`]

Yeah I'm really gonna miss:

- watching the IRS target conservatives
- having the government try to take my guns
- watch the "ZERO in charge" trample on our constitution
- watch the best health care system in the world get destroyed
- being spied on by the NSA
- Liberals trying to block real job growth
- watching the current administration LIE and cover up scandals
- see other world leaders look at us as weak because Zero has no balls
- out of control government spending


Its been a blast.....did I miss anything?

If you think you can lay all those problems at the feet of the liberals, you haven't been paying attention. points 3, 5, 7 & 9 could all have been said of GWB, just as easily and factually.

Don't get me wrong... Obama and the current admin aren't any better and I'd even give them a notch up for "worse". But... it gets' worse with each election, regardless of which of these ineffectual parties are in charge.
Obama didn't do it all on his own... where's the blame for the other 2 arms of govt. Where are the solutions? All we get are complaints, bitching and locking up the entire system... we never get solutions. Why do you think the AHA made it through without even being read? Because it was a solution... albeit the wrong one.

Personally, I'm a libertarian and am not beholden to either of the messed up parties in charge. Two sides of the same coin and while they continue to wrap up our citizens in the "blame game", we continue to spiral down, down, down. I'm amazed that nobody else sees this. We'll never get anywhere pointing fingers and bitching! We need people in the system who can come up with solutions, not block and blame tactics!



Then again... don't mind me. I worked hard for over 25 yrs. Put into the system with each and every gig. 2 college degrees and a third career edu (unfinished, went right into the filed), trying to "better my situation" through my life.
Lost my left foot, guts went to **** from stress and still tried to keep working for another decade. Now... I'm beaten down into the ground. Lost my family, lost my dignity, lost pretty much everything but my personal pride.
Now... I've rebuilt my meager life, living on SSDI. Medicare is my only coverage. The state refuses to help me with medical costs and thinks I should mooch off my roomate... literally assigns her 1/2 of the mortgage as an income against me, to deny me any coverage. They would literally rather see me living in a crap-hole in the ghetto! Been an amputee for 17 yrs. now and I've had to go through 9 different surgeries because I keep trying to do for myself and it beats me back down into the ground.



"Obamacare" is a joke... but I'll tell all of you who haven't gone through the medical mess for yourselves, you wait until it's you who's caught the bad break. You wait until it's you who has to complain, file, re-file and finally sue just to get some of the benefits you were forced to pay for when you could still work. You wait until your the one getting denied and buried for 2 yrs, when you've lost your family and children and you have nothing left but to start over with 1/4 of the ability you used to have to provide for yourself.

See where that high-horse leads you when your walking in my shoe and then, let's hear how you feel about the system.





sorry. Just get's my dander up to read the back and forth bitchin' and blaming. I guess those guys and gals in the govt. really are just representing the majority of us Americans, both the bad and worse.

 

[lanark_lad]

If you think you can lay all those problems at the feet of the liberals, you haven't been paying attention. points 3, 5, 7 & 9 could all have been said of GWB, just as easily and factually.

Don't get me wrong... Obama and the current admin aren't any better and I'd even give them a notch up for "worse". But... it gets' worse with each election, regardless of which of these ineffectual parties are in charge.
Obama didn't do it all on his own... where's the blame for the other 2 arms of govt. Where are the solutions? All we get are complaints, bitching and locking up the entire system... we never get solutions. Why do you think the AHA made it through without even being read? Because it was a solution... albeit the wrong one.

Personally, I'm a libertarian and am not beholden to either of the messed up parties in charge. Two sides of the same coin and while they continue to wrap up our citizens in the "blame game", we continue to spiral down, down, down. I'm amazed that nobody else sees this. We'll never get anywhere pointing fingers and bitching! We need people in the system who can come up with solutions, not block and blame tactics!



Then again... don't mind me. I worked hard for over 25 yrs. Put into the system with each and every gig. 2 college degrees and a third career edu (unfinished, went right into the filed), trying to "better my situation" through my life.
Lost my left foot, guts went to **** from stress and still tried to keep working for another decade. Now... I'm beaten down into the ground. Lost my family, lost my dignity, lost pretty much everything but my personal pride.
Now... I've rebuilt my meager life, living on SSDI. Medicare is my only coverage. The state refuses to help me with medical costs and thinks I should mooch off my roomate... literally assigns her 1/2 of the mortgage as an income against me, to deny me any coverage. They would literally rather see me living in a crap-hole in the ghetto! Been an amputee for 17 yrs. now and I've had to go through 9 different surgeries because I keep trying to do for myself and it beats me back down into the ground.



"Obamacare" is a joke... but I'll tell all of you who haven't gone through the medical mess for yourselves, you wait until it's you who's caught the bad break. You wait until it's you who has to complain, file, re-file and finally sue just to get some of the benefits you were forced to pay for when you could still work. You wait until your the one getting denied and buried for 2 yrs, when you've lost your family and children and you have nothing left but to start over with 1/4 of the ability you used to have to provide for yourself.

See where that high-horse leads you when your walking in my shoe and then, let's hear how you feel about the system.





sorry. Just get's my dander up to read the back and forth bitchin' and blaming. I guess those guys and gals in the govt. really are just representing the majority of us Americans, both the bad and worse.

great post, very well worded. for your sake (and many like you), i truly hope the USA can fix these problems soon...if not, we canadians do take lots of decent folks in....excellent health care, little crime and great beer !!!! LOL

 

[mtsummitx]

The only time we see is playing out, is when corporations have an existing healthcare insurance plan for their employees, and/or are unionized. All other forms of business and employees really aren't affected.

I'm sorry Reeb, I'm a little thick some days. Could you please elaborate a little more on this point you are making. I'm not quite sure where it was going??

 

[Finnlandr]

Don't get me wrong... Obama and the current admin aren't any better and I'd even give them a notch up for "worse". But... it gets' worse with each election, regardless of which of these ineffectual parties are in charge.
Obama didn't do it all on his own... where's the blame for the other 2 arms of govt. Where are the solutions? All we get are complaints, bitching and locking up the entire system... we never get solutions. Why do you think the AHA made it through without even being read? Because it was a solution... albeit the wrong one.

Personally, I'm a libertarian and am not beholden to either of the messed up parties in charge. Two sides of the same coin and while they continue to wrap up our citizens in the "blame game", we continue to spiral down, down, down. I'm amazed that nobody else sees this. We'll never get anywhere pointing fingers and bitching! We need people in the system who can come up with solutions, not block and blame tactics!

I agree with this....

Then again... don't mind me. I worked hard for over 25 yrs. Put into the system with each and every gig. 2 college degrees and a third career edu (unfinished, went right into the filed), trying to "better my situation" through my life.
Lost my left foot, guts went to **** from stress and still tried to keep working for another decade. Now... I'm beaten down into the ground. Lost my family, lost my dignity, lost pretty much everything but my personal pride.
Now... I've rebuilt my meager life, living on SSDI. Medicare is my only coverage. The state refuses to help me with medical costs and thinks I should mooch off my roomate... literally assigns her 1/2 of the mortgage as an income against me, to deny me any coverage. They would literally rather see me living in a crap-hole in the ghetto! Been an amputee for 17 yrs. now and I've had to go through 9 different surgeries because I keep trying to do for myself and it beats me back down into the ground.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation.

 

[mtsummitx]

mtxsummitx,

you do make some good points (hand up vs hand out) but at the same time you did seem to think that we canadians dont get good health care, wait in long lines and have to come to the states for our needs which is just untrue. i have yet to meet someone who had done this (even tho i live 30 minutes from the border) and the only place i've ever heard anyone say this is on Fox news.

As I have already stated twice now, all I know of your system is hearsay. Please enlighten me with facts about your system so I can make my own judgement on it with an educated mind.

And on the topic of waiting, it must be true. One of your fellow Canadians stated that if Obamacare is written anything like yours, then we may have to wait longer for things like knee replacements.

For the question about a knee replacement taking up an OR that could be being used for a brain surgery. I don't really think brain surgeries are being put on the backburner for knee replacements in the states. But I do know, if I needed a new knee, my job requires alot of walking everyday so I wouldn't want to have to wait for it any longer than I had to.

 

[Finnlandr]

then we may have to wait longer for things

this is a BIG concern...and one of the problems with this socialist system.

 

[BikerPepe`]

great post, very well worded. for your sake (and many like you), i truly hope the USA can fix these problems soon...if not, we canadians do take lots of decent folks in....excellent health care, little crime and great beer !!!! LOL

I appreciate the kind words and agree... I'm far from the only one in this or situation.
I thought about Canada years back, when I still had a career in IT. But as far as I last heard, you guys won't let anybody in unless they have something to offer. Being disabled for the rest of my life, I'm pretty sure I don't fit the bill. Hell, I've had a DUI so I can't even cross the border.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation.

Again, I appreciate the kind words but I'm not here for any sympathy.
I think it's important for people to hear from others who did do well for themselves and their families and then, lost it all.
It's one thing to get down on the junkies, scammers and bums, but let's not forget that there are legitimate folks out there too.

But I do know, if I needed a new knee, my job requires alot of walking everyday so I wouldn't want to have to wait for it any longer than I had to.

this is a BIG concern...and one of the problems with this socialist system.

Have either of you been in this situation? A good friend of mine has worked for years in welding and fabrication. Eventually it took it's toll on his body. He lives well, is very responsible, has insurance, etc., etc. but he ended up with 3 messed up disks in his neck. 2 bulging, 1 compressed. He's been waiting for workmans comp., insurance and probably 3 different doctors to get the surgery approved so he can get back to work. It's been over 8 months since he went down to this injury and throughout the wait, the condition has only gotten worse.
You guys don't think you'd be stuck waiting too? Unless you've got the cash to cover the spread yourself, all these "systems" we keep paying into are a joke. Sure... they all sound good and you think your covered and can get taken care of quickly if you have the need, until your actually going through it. He'll get the care he needs and he'll get it paid for through all the "systems" he's supposedly covered by... but it's not happening without a massive wait and plenty of grief jumping through all the hoops. 8 months down time before even getting a surgery and at least another 6 (probably more) recovering. Think that job will be there waiting for him? Anyone think the next employer is going to be happy to bring him into the workforce or pay for his insurance?

Regardless of what you may hear, read or think... there is no overabundance of "speedy service" in our existing health care system, I guarantee ya. Talking points are all well fine and good and they sound great on the television, but when you have to slog through the reality of it all... you realize we are already far worse off than the majority of us even know.



To the point of the thread... I'm pretty sure we're stuck with this Govt. Healthcare. Our govt. has never been known for letting go of anything, once it's gotten a grip on it. That being the case, we need to be FIXING the problems BEFORE too many other lives are destroyed.
REPEAL = NO WAY. REPLACE = MAYBE. FIX = Probably our best shot.
Not saying I like it... just saying it's there now and we have to deal with it.

 

[Reeb]

Revised.

Originally Posted by mtsummitx
Now, add on the fact that this program is decimating jobs, hours, and benefits in workplaces across the country even before the program is implemented.

The only time we see this playing out, is when corporations have an existing healthcare insurance plan for their employees, and/or are unionized. All other forms of business and employees really aren't affected.

 

[Finnlandr]

Have either of you been in this situation?

No I have not..


But the problems with this program run much deeper than the scenario you described.

What about all the doctors and professionals that will be affected by this? My dentist retired recently and sold his practice....a couple years earlier than planned.....he didnt want to deal with the mess.

Top Five Reasons Obamacare Is Bad for Doctors
http://blog.heritage.org/2012/06/22/top-five-reasons-obamacare-is-bad-for-doctors/

83 percent of doctors have considered quitting over Obamacare
http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/09/r...tors-have-considered-quitting-over-obamacare/


Where is the "affordable" part of the ACA ?? .....I've yet to hear, see or read about a SINGLE person that will pay LESS.

Lets look at the government employees that may be exempt from this program..... "healthcare so good we dont want it"

At the end of the day its not really about providing "affordable health care"....its about CONTROL....the government wants to control everything about our lives...we'll tell you what kind of healthcare you should receive, how often you should receive it and how much you will pay for it....and oh, if you dont take coverage and pay for it...we"ll sic the IRS on you.

 

[mtsummitx]

Sorry Biker, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you. No, I have not been in the situation of needing a surgery but know plenty who have. I'm not saying you are gonna be in the next day you find out you need a surgery. Obviously there are channels, procedures, legal steps, etc, etc, etc that have to be gone through prior to a surgery. But, I do believe if my insurance was paying for it, it would be done in a fairly timely manner. Your example of the work comp issue is a poor example. Work comp is known to be dragged out for as long as the doctors can milk the $$$ out of it. Don't take that wrong, I'm not accusing the worker of milking it, i'm strictly talking about the medical side taking it for all it is worth. I know of several work comp situations that have been drug out way longer than they should have been because of the doctors, one was a simple case of a guy stabbing himself in the hand with a pocket knife at work requiring stitches. There was no tendon damage or anything like that, just a deep cut. I don't know how many doctors visits it ended up totalling but I think the guy was on light duty for right about a month and a half. The doctors know if work comp is involved, they can drag it out for as long as they want, and know it will all get paid. I'm sorry, but you will not convince me that this country needs a government run and controlled healthcare system. As I have stated previously, there are more than enough programs for people that are truely going through hard times, to get needed assistance to help them get back on their feet.

You can say I am cold, have no heart, no sympathy, no compassion, whatever. But I am an American, I try to be a good American. I work for what is mine, I pay my fair share of taxes. I don't mind paying my fair share of taxes to be living in what was, yes I say was because I am losing hope, the greatest country on this planet. But, I am sick of sending ridiculous amounts of money to Washington DC every year to be pi$$ed away without any concern by the idiots at the capitol as to what it is being used on. I am sick of my money going to welfare moms, whose only goal in life is to pop out another kid to make her monthly check bigger, I am sick of the Govt. wasting my $$$ on BS studies like why a cows fart stinks so bad. I am sick of my money going to all these people who have given up looking for work because "they cant find a job", bull$hit fast food restraunts are always hiring, 99 weeks of unemployment, really??? BS!!! People throughout history have gone through way worse economic downturns in this country, they didnt give up, they did whatever it took to pick themselves up and get back on their feet, yes there was government help along the way but it was not the permanent solution that it is in so many cases now today. This country is so irresponsible and wastefull with the taxpayers dollars, We are 17 trillion dollars in debt here people. Something needs to be done and done fast to stop the hemmoraging of $$$ from this goverment. The solution sure as he!! is not to come along and create another government hand out program that is going to cost billions upon billions to operate annually. Again, I have no problem with temporary assistance programs for those truely in need, I have no problem with permanent assistance programs for those that truely need it, disabled, retarded, whatever. That being said, there needs to be a drastic change in this country. We as a nation suffer from a severe lack in self pride, there was a time in this country people would not take a handout if their life depended on it, they were proud. They wanted to go to their grave knowing they worked for everything they ever had. This is no longer the case anymore in this country. The takers in this society are begining to outnumber the producers. And this problem will be our demise as a free nation.

 

[Reeb]

And on the topic of waiting, it must be true. One of your fellow Canadians stated that if Obamacare is written anything like yours, then we may have to wait longer for things like knee replacements.

For the question about a knee replacement taking up an OR that could be being used for a brain surgery. I don't really think brain surgeries are being put on the backburner for knee replacements in the states. But I do know, if I needed a new knee, my job requires alot of walking everyday so I wouldn't want to have to wait for it any longer than I had to.

The scenario you use was based on a previous remark about selective surgeries. If your livelyhood is threatened by an injury, it gets taken care of fairly quickly. Medical Employment Insurance is also easy to apply for when you are sick or hurt and cannot work.

Worker's Compensation is a bunch of jumping thru hoops, however if you do as they say,(go to your appts, fill out those forms) they take care of you without trying to strongarm you.(meaning paying you out for a lumpsum much less than deserved for say, a permanent work related injury)

 

[mtsummitx]

Reeb, are you saying that it doesnt hurt jobs in Canada, or you guys don't see it hurting jobs in the US?? Because it is fact that it is killing jobs in the US as we speak. You hear weekly of jobs being cut, or full-time being cut to part time, or benefits being cut for family members or even employees. And across the board from mom and pop small businesses all the up to large big $$$ corporations.

 

[treemagnet03]

Just so we are clear...doctors do not make any extra money "allowing" someone to "milk" out an injury. Zero dollars past the office visit. And it is a legal document that can burn them if they lie about it too. 98% of my personal experience is whiny folks who refuse to go back to work, and docs who can't stand the annoyance of it and meet them half way so they shut up and leave. A bit rude to state it that way perhaps, but very very few doctors enjoy medical comp cases.

 

[mtsummitx]

Just so we are clear...doctors do not make any extra money "allowing" someone to "milk" out an injury. Zero dollars past the office visit. And it is a legal document that can burn them if they lie about it too. 98% of my personal experience is whiny folks who refuse to go back to work, and docs who can't stand the annoyance of it and meet them half way so they shut up and leave. A bit rude to state it that way perhaps, but very very few doctors enjoy medical comp cases.

Sorry, I used the term doctor as a generalized term. Maybe not the doctors at a traditional hospitals benefit, but there are plenty of things that can be done at private practices, which benefit from stretching out the visits.

 

[Finnlandr]

98% of my personal experience is whiny folks who refuse to go back to work, and docs who can't stand the annoyance of it and meet them half way so they shut up and leave. A bit rude to state it that way perhaps, but very very few doctors enjoy medical comp cases.

.....I'm so tired of these losers trying to milk the system and sue companies for fake or meaningless injuries.

 

[Reeb]

Reeb, are you saying that it doesnt hurt jobs in Canada, or you guys don't see it hurting jobs in the US?? Because it is fact that it is killing jobs in the US as we speak. You hear weekly of jobs being cut, or full-time being cut to part time, or benefits being cut for family members or even employees. And across the board from mom and pop small businesses all the up to large big $$$ corporations.

Considering most of it hasn't even taken effect yet...not until next week....nope...hold on...I'm not gonna call BS just yet.

Because this is an issue that I wish to know more about, I've been reading up via www.hhs.gov and I'm picking up certain things. It seems like a good website to cite since the pages I'm reading are from the Bill itself.

-Companies with 50 or more employees will be required to cover fulltime workers. Otherwise penalties will be handed out. But this does not get implemented until 2015.

-Smaller employers do not have to pay the same penalties and will be offered tax breaks if they do decide to cover their employees with health care.

-Insurers will not be able to inflate prices(which they are allowed to do at the moment)

-Medicare(for seniors) is fairly unchanged except for what they have already experienced. Which, from 2nd hand information, I'm told is for the better so far.

-Medicaid is in the hands of your State legislators as to whether your State opts for increased medicaid or not.

-States that do decide to join the party, the Federal gov't will cover all of the costs of the addition coverage. If your State refuses to join, those that make under $16,000 are ****ed. Just as they are now.

-Those workers that are not getting their healthcare provided by their employers will have private companies(state or federal assisted) to choose from. Several 'levels' of healthcare. 4 levels if I remember correctly. The most basic, up to the most expensive all include: hospital visits, doctor visits, maternity care, mental health care, and prescription drugs.

-People that make just south of $80,000 a year and those companies do not have health insurance in place will get tax credits.

-All people, sick or healthy are eligible for health insurance.

-There will be no tier system for pre-exisiting conditions and women and men will pay the same amount.

-Young people will see a rise in premiums, however people under the age of 25(or 26?) will be able to stay under the umbrella of their parents plans until they reach this age.

The only part that kinda irked me when reading up on this was that people who do not buy insurance, or are eligible for medicare or medicaid will have to pay a fine or penalty to the gov't. However I see that there is a clause that waves that penalty depending on their occupation and income.

And the BIGGEST piece from the HSS website showed me that premiums will be down 16% from what was originally forecasted, nationwide.

And the part that blew me away.....the politicians that are telling you that healthcare is a horrible thing....are all more than fully covered from now until they, and their families are put into the ground.

I also stumbled apon the fact that we, as Canadians, pay almost HALF of what you are paying as an American citizen. So with all of our taxes, and government controlled healthcare...we pay half as much? Not bad...

So after all this reading, I still wan't convinced that so many people have overlooked these points. I went to the Bureau of Labor Statistics and found that as Obama got elected(his first term) yes, there was a jump in involuntary part-time work...but since then(his second term and the introduction and implementation of Obamacare) the rate of involuntary part-timers has actually....decreased? SAY WHAT???

By the numbers, 4 million Americans were being forced to involuntary part-time work per year until 2008.

in the year 2000(end of the Clinton Administration) involuntary part-timers was around 2 million people per year.

By 2004 thru 2006 that number jumped to just under 5 million people per year.
Then it went down for a few years, just over 4 million per year.

Then in 2009 it rose sharply from 5 million per year, to a whopping 9 million per year, THE VERY NEXT YEAR! Holy crap Obama...WTH is going on? Oh yeah...the recession....gotcha!

But the weird trend is that the numbers are going down again...albeit very slowly. But going down. From the high of 9 million in 2011, the rate of involuntary part-time employees is coming down to todays rate of right around 8 million people per year.

So to tie this all together to the original quote from above....I'll call BS now.

Of course, like I mentioned above, Americans are going to know more about what is going on in their Country than I will ever know, that's just the way it is. I wouldn't expect you to know more about my Country than I do, so I give the same concessions to you. So please, tell me the downfalls that are going to be felt(I know there are plenty I'm not thinking of.)
And why everyone is so caught up with the "FACTS" of which you speak?

 

[BikerPepe`]

Sorry Biker, but I'm gonna have to disagree with you. No, I have not been in the situation of needing a surgery but know plenty who have.

mts... your can totally disagree with me and my points as much as you like and for what it's worth, I agree with a large portion of the "ideals" behind your second paragraph.
Unfortunately though... you appear to basically discount my entire argument because you are not directly affected and the healthcare of our workforce is apparently not a big concern of yours. Basically, you sound very white collar, middle management to me.
Whether you are or not is irrelevant to me and I apologize if I appear to be making this a personal disagreement. That is not my intention.
You obviously have a different point of view and personal experience. While I grant you that your opinion is very valid, mine and those of others does not have to be invalid either. We all have different experiences and I'm trying to share mine with others, the same as I am trying to learn from others outside of my own.
We all need to see and appreciate each others circumstance and experience to truly understand the big picture in our own nation, in others and around the world.

I'll step back out of the politics arena here... but thanks for the discussion.

And I'm going to go take a look at that link Reeb dropped now.

 

[mtsummitx]

Please read this article Reeb.

http://news.investors.com/politics-...mployer-mandate-spurs-work-hours-job-cuts.htm

 

[mtsummitx]

Biker, I guess you can label me however you wish, call me purple with pink polka dot collar if ya want. I don't think I really am either side so whatever. Here's a little background on me, not that I have to provide this info. I am a commisioned outside salesman, my pay is based soley on my performance. If my acounts aren't buying from my company I am making no $$$$, well I do have a very small monthly base but it wouldn't even make my house payment and my house payment is under $900.00 a month. I have been through good pay months, and I have been through bad pay months. This inconsistancy in my pay has really made me appreciate the $$$ in my pocket and where it goes. I pay about $450.00 a month for insurance for myself and my son. I would love to see insurance rates go down, I would love to see taxes go down. But I do not in my mind see this happen with this program. I see the exact opposite.

Somebody please explain this to me. How are we not going to be paying higher taxes and insurance rates if we bring in millions of uninsured people and give them partial or fully government subsidized insurance. I'm not talking about people already on the system we are already paying for them. I'm talking about the people out there that are working low paying jobs and cannot afford to buy insurance, the ones that are going to qualify for government subsidees to pay for their insurance. Where is this money going to come from????

 

[Finnlandr]

So please, tell me the downfalls that are going to be felt(I know there are plenty I'm not thinking of.)

Are you choosing to ignore the facts previously posted? ....jobs lost, hours cut, healthcare costs "increased", negative effects on doctors, etc....these things ARE happening.

In a struggling economy this will hinder our recovery...the trickle down effect will be felt.

employees pay more for healthcare = less $ goes back into the economy​

employers pay more for healthcare when they have more than 50 employees = less $ goes back into the economy​

doctors decide to quit or not start a practice = less doctors to care for the sick​

companies will be financially unable to expand and grow = negative effect on economy​

Georgia Healthcare Company to Lay Off Over 100 Because of Obamacare

"It's sad. It really is," said another man. "A lot of people are going to lose their homes and cars and everything they worked all their life for."

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs...ny-lay-over-100-because-obamacare_754008.html