Ski-Doo Muffler PT-1 [Summary], PT-2 [DETAILED] 850 turbo can, non-turbo can, trail can, quiet can, mountain can 800, 600 etc

[Teth-Air]

So why not build a stock style suitecase made from titanium.? Why does nobody copy the factory designs but just use light material?? Too expensive? I know it only answers part of what guys want but it would be lighter and quiet. Maybe add a cooker mount to it and I'm sure most guys would be happy. Sure it is still large but it would be 95% ideal.

 

[joshkoltes]

Not to mention, some cans make the machine run chitty.
I used to be a big believer in force turbos but they certainly have partnered with bike man. Looks like their can is just a rebrand bike man anyway. Backfires so much it ruined my reeds.
Their clutch kit is also sniper based, almost threw up when I opened the box

 

[Teth-Air]

Not to mention, some cans make the machine run chitty.
I used to be a big believer in force turbos but they certainly have partnered with bike man. Looks like their can is just a rebrand bike man anyway. Backfires so much it ruined my reeds.
Their clutch kit is also sniper based, almost threw up when I opened the box

Did it backfire because it flowed better and let your motor produce more power so the computer chopped the power due to an over-rev condition and the answer was to increase clutch weight? OR Did it backfire because it just did not have enough back pressure for any clutching or improper temperature sensor location causing it to run on the edge of the map? I got a set of Synper weights and thought they looked well made and had lots of good adjustment for my needs.

 

[joshkoltes]

It isn't on throttle stabs. It's mid pull when loaded hanging around 78-8000
Seen three people have backfires on the bike man and know a guy that's swapped between a few brands and think he's settled on a diamond

 

[turbo800]

View attachment 419735
Olav Aaen - clutch tuning handbook
04-05: To tune your clutches you have to know where the power band of your engine is.
04-06: When the engine has been modified, it is important that you know how the power curve has been changed to so that you can tune to the new power peak.
04-07: Any internal combustion engine is an air pump, and the amount of power you obtain is directly proportional to the weight of air and gas you can burn in a given time.
The density of the air has a direct effect on the power output. Air density is controlled by pressure, temperature and humidity. Pressure and temperature have the largest influence on your power.
04-08: Know your power curve and its limitations when you work on your clutch.
04-09: Your job as a clutch tuner is to the match the clutch to your engine curve and obtain the best possible performance of the conditions your vehicle is experiencing.

For the most part, I don't like cans for 2 reasons.
1] I can't take the noise from using them. Ive run many cans, either bought, borrowed or given to me. Always there is an ear stabbing sound between 62~6800 rpms at part throttle.
2] Many cans change the power peak rpm to a lower rpm. Only a rare handful have shown a "real" increase of a power peak change to a higher rpm by 100.

People can see published numbers by certain shops running the same dyno as everyone else. Their mufflers showing -1hp, or, same hp, or, +1, +2hp, ok fine...but then the same can's are brought to one of the types of Eddy current dynos and show a power peak rpm movement. Notice I did not say "Hp gain or loss".
i] That EC dyno showed a -250rpm movement in the power peak, or
ii]...a -100rpm movement in the power peak, or
iii]...a +100 rpm power peak movement.

i]Supposed to be 8000, went to 7750.
ii]Supposed to be 8000, went to 7900.
iii]Supposed to be 8000, went to 8100

I didn't say the word "horsepower." YOU immediately go to the word "horsepower" in your mind, because that's what you've been trained to do.
That word "horsepower" is for the people who know dynos. Since I dont know what they know, then i'll say "power peak rpm".

So I gets this phone call one day from a tech in this shop down in eastern Canada [not ontario] that has one of these eddy current dynos and he give me the power peak rpms of a list of cans. One popular can losing 250 rpms and pipe surging. One can losing 150 rpms. One can losing 100 rpms. Some cans original 7950 rpms, one can in particular gaining 100 rpms.
But the Johnnycan showed a power peak rpm movement of -250 rpm on Dan's EC dyno.
But Johhnycan company shows a HP gain on the Jonnycan's house dyno.

Now, i'm not trying to invoke anyone to show their current psychological condition of going on a rant about dynos.

Ski-Doo Muffler PT-2, [DETAILED] 850 turbo can...

www.dootalk.com

Its about this...
2 guys, Moe and Larry, have same sleds, bone stock except Moe has a Johnnycan muffler where it said on the Johnnycan website +X.X hp.
Both guys about the same rider weight with gear, run at the same elevation, bought gas from the same pump, same drive belt, same clutching....
But at the riding area, Moe is having difficult to get 8000 rpms.
Larry is 8000 and pulls like a freight train [Moe's words]
Only difference? Exhaust.

This is my answer to Moe
SKI-DOO MUFFLERS. This PT-1 video is a summary of main points to know when a Ski-Doo exhaust is modified, [MUFFLER/CAN] it may change the power peak rpms of your engine. A simple todo list at the end of it; how to prevent and/or correct a power peak rpm change.PT-2 video next, is detailed, covering many or all important points of WHY a muffler can change the power peak rpms. What's happening in the pipe regarding backpressure.
Short summary @ 7min long.


SKI-DOO MUFFLERS. This PT-2 video is DETAILED, why, how, what may happen when a Ski-Doo exhaust is modified, [MUFFLER/CAN] it may change the power peak rpms of your engine.

ADJUST THE PLAYBACK SPEED; You can speed up the video using youtube settings, playback settings 1.25, go.

I go into the theory and my own "bad, but-good" learning experience on why my engine could only run 6800 rpms in Cooke city at 7500~9500 feet. I changed out to 2 cans.
Borrowed stock = 8000.
Aftermarket can I owned & ran = 6800
Certain aftermarket = 8000.
Aftermarket can I owned & ran = 6800..what is happening?

I guess I don't get what the problem is...

If said muffler 'shifted' the peak rpm power, to yield say +1.25 HP, but had to move +/- 200 rpm to do so.

Why not just adjust your clutching to support said change???

For me, the ideal muffler does a couple of things.
- Doesn't loose any HP, if it gains any great.
- Is smaller in size, for more room to work around the chaincase area.
- Sheds some weight, while being smaller in size, but isn't the primary concern.
- Maintains or has less under hood heat (ex: doesn't melt plastic parts or panels)
- Ideally has a deeper tone, without drone or tones that are hard on your hearing.

The other thing to consider, these also have N/A engines in mind.
If a Turbo engine lost say -1HP with an aftermarket muffler, do people really mind?
Some of today's riders can barely handle the HP a factory turbo 850 makes!

 

[firstkitty]

I really like the stock heavy muffler matter fact I wish I could double stack 2 of them to make my sled even more quieter, I just don’t get wanting that noise.

 

[Teth-Air]

I really like the stock heavy muffler matter fact I wish I could double stack 2 of them to make my sled even more quieter, I just don’t get wanting that noise.

Most people don't want excess noise. Most want the best of what the OEM mufflers offer with the huge advantages of what a light weight muffler claims to offer. I am not happy settling on the heavy, hot, large OEM OR a loud aftermarket can.

 

[firstkitty]

Well one thing I know is I’ve never had melting plastic with a stock muffler but sure seen my share with the aftermarket ones . To each there own this topic is pretty much a split down the Center I’m not one of them guys that hate cans and go on the rant that they close trails and whatever just that I’ve tested enough of them in the last 25 years to know there’s very few that are worth the investment. I don’t like the noice I’m old but if you like it and don’t care if it make or loses hp then I’m ok with that .
I have a salvage on the side and I’ve collected and sold 100s of stock mufflers funny thing is guy’s buy a 500-600 aftermarket muffler and toss there factory one away then when I want 300$ for a new take of muffler they think it’s too much .

 

[turbo800]

Well one thing I know is I’ve never had melting plastic with a stock muffler but sure seen my share with the aftermarket ones . To each there own this topic is pretty much a split down the Center I’m not one of them guys that hate cans and go on the rant that they close trails and whatever just that I’ve tested enough of them in the last 25 years to know there’s very few that are worth the investment. I don’t like the noice I’m old but if you like it and don’t care if it make or loses hp then I’m ok with that .
I have a salvage on the side and I’ve collected and sold 100s of stock mufflers funny thing is guy’s buy a 500-600 aftermarket muffler and toss there factory one away then when I want 300$ for a new take of muffler they think it’s too much .

Most of the stock take off mufflers on the local classifieds go for about $50.
The ones listed at $100 never seem to sell around here.

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

I guess I don't get what the problem is...

If said muffler 'shifted' the peak rpm power, to yield say +1.25 HP, but had to move +/- 200 rpm to do so.

Why not just adjust your clutching to support said change???

If there was a gain of 1.25hp, then the power peak could have moved 60~80 rpm on the dyno.
Can you frame a test using your snowmobile to come to the conclusion that said muffler change is supported?

Aaen says; all testing is done at full throttle.
Look at your tach at full throttle.
IF over revving, THEN add mass
IF under revving, THEN remove mass

@turbo800]
For me, the ideal muffler does a couple of things.
- Doesn't loose any HP, if it gains any great.

Joe] Ok, you put on this can that...
- Is smaller in size, for more room to work around the chaincase area.
- Sheds some weight, while being smaller in size, but isn't the primary concern.
- Maintains or has less under hood heat (ex: doesn't melt plastic parts or panels)
- Ideally has a deeper tone, without drone or tones that are hard on your hearing.
....lost at least 200 rpms at 6500 feet and feels even weaker at 10000 feet.
..now what?

@turbo800
If a Turbo engine lost say -1HP with an aftermarket muffler, do people really mind?
Some of today's riders can barely handle the HP a factory turbo 850 makes!

Joe]haha, that's funny. I've had customers say that to me on the phone.

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

It isn't on throttle stabs. It's mid pull when loaded hanging around 78-8000
Seen three people have backfires on the bike man and know a guy that's swapped between a few brands and think he's settled on a diamond

I looked around for a BM muffler so the end of my video would be of the JD310 backhoe smashing it into mush. And time it so that i was hammering it with the bucket early in the morning, then take a few vid shots in the afternoon, then in the evening then about 1030 at night. And edit it so it was like 30 seconds but it would look like 12 hours of smashing that can, HAHAHA. But I was not paying $150 USD for a used 2012 Bowel Movement muffler.
My D-S can is one of the most quiet aftermarket cans and it does not lose engine speed. No change in rpms at full throttle. [thanks Pat]
But the D-S can is still too loud for me. My right ear drum is kinda pooched from years of open mod and improve stock pipes.

 

[ATVPT]

You got this Joe, nothing runs or sounds like a Deere