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All these threads hatin on Obama....

I grew up under a Democrat roof. I entered the service in 1988. I was oblivious to the world and why we need foreign policy. I can say I am a Republican as of 1990. The worst of my 20 years of service were under Clinton. If I coulda retired I woulda gave it up then. I can retire now, and without a doubt if Obama is elected I'll drop papers the next day.

I'm sitting in the desert right now for my 10th deployment and I'll end up with 6 years 4 months of my 20 years is the sand box. The troops despite what the liberals and liberal media want you believe know why we are here and are proud of our mission and our accomplishments. Most America don't see or understand the big picture nor will Obama because he won't come see for himself. Troops dying and bombs going off sell. I can go on for days about the pluses, but they don't sell; people have re-established businesses; women can walk the streets; schools were built by the military and boys and girls are getting educated; the majority of people love us and the US. Most city streets are quiet and are filled with hundreds of locals, where 2 years ago they were empty.

I guarantee no matter who wins we'll be here for the long haul. The Liberal call to withdraw our troops is just to get a vote. They will not have the balls to pull us out, because the bad guys will be on our door step. They are coming anyway, but they'll get there easier and faster if we fail here. Clinton took us to Kosovo and said "we'll be out in 12 months". Sorry to tell ya we're still there. We're still in Germany, Japan, Korea, and a ton more places the average citizen has no idea about. Why would we leave Iraq or Afghanistan? Didn't we learn better to occupy than re-deploy. Old school I know, but it still holds true.

I have hundreds but here is my last thought. The economy is sh!t. Even though the liberals will cut the military to a useless response force your kids will need a job. This job comes with medical, education, and a guaranteed pay check. Better watch it or your child will end up here dealing with the scum you want to leave alone, just like the first Gulf war when so many reservist and guardsmen cried they signed up for school, not to really Defend our Country from all Enemies Foreign and Domestic. I almost feel the Dems are Domestic Terrorists. Why will we not drill our own recourses and allow China to sit off our coast and take it? Why not build more refineries? Why not build more nuclear power plants? I'm all for developing more green ways and getting off our foreign dependency. Aren't You? Why cripple America because you can when we have the resources to sustain our own until technology and cost efficiency catches up.

My .02 Come on Retirement
Robrstopr
 
useless post! you point nothing out in terms of solutions. you ask is mccain going to cut spending but what about obama. the same question is just as valid. neither are going to cut spending!!! you cast a negative light on repulicans but dont use the same rule on dems... partly lines.... this is what pisses me off... this country is increasingly becoming divided. you know the old saying a house divided will fall. why are we divided? where did this mentality of do whatever it takes so "my party wins" come from? its all ideology and agenda not what is the best for the country and for your fellow man. more government is NEVER in the good interest of man!!! in alot of respects the government is like a modern day plantation... they take away our freedom and make us dependant on them.

i will be voting for mccain because he is a LITTLE less government than obama and his ideology a LITTLE less liberal, ie, supreme court appointees.
i firmly believe that there are guys on this very forum who could take the keys to the whitehouse and do a farrrrrrrrrr better job than any of the candidates we have... but thats a drill in futility because the powers that be would never let a common guy in washington. that would be a major threat to their establishment. sorry for the somewhat rant:o.






Cutting spending is fine, are you reffering to the current administration? Are they going to cut spending? Is McCain going to cut spending? Nope, is McCain going to HAVE to raise taxes? Yup.

My money was given to them already. The current administrations debt is going to take 10+ years to pay off. But at least they lowered the taxes of the richest 5% in the country.


http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=2519


http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A32985-2004Oct14.html


What happened to the Republican Party?:
http://www.americanchronicle.com/articles/3795




So much for Bush's words huh?

National Debt under party leadership:
Natl_Debt_Chart_2006-email.jpg


so much for our "conservatives" cutting spending
 
I never claimed to have sollutions.

The point is that CURRENT Republicans are not your stero-typical Republicans. If they were, I would be on board with them.

In all honesty, most Democrats are more Conservative than current Republicans.

Democrats have done a better job recently balancing a budget than the so called "conservative" Republicans.


I mostly posted that because I was sick of hearing on here how the "Liberals" just want to give money away and spend, what do you think we have been doing? Sure we are cutting taxes right now (mostly for the rich) but our budget is a joke.
 
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I never claimed to have sollutions.

The point is that CURRENT Republicans are not your stero-typical Republicans. If they were, I would be on board with them.

In all honesty, most Democrats are more Conservative than current Republicans.

Democrats have done a better job recently balancing a budget than the so called "conservative" Republicans.


theres no agruement there regarding the elephants BUT the dems(call them what they are... liberals) are not more consevative. liberals whole philosophy is more government, more control etc. use the same rule of judgement on both... they suck!!!
 
Wow. Most of you folks on this thread must have a lot of free time on your hands. Wish we could harness it for something productive. :confused:

I haven't read this whole thread, as I do not have the time, but even though I do not think Bush was nearly conservative enough for my liking, and he did do many bone head things, I would like to know what you consider the problems from "8 years of Republicans have done", other than your issue with the war?

Are you blaming Bush for the price of fuel? If so, let's hear some facts. Which bill did Bush sign or veto from the Democratic controlled Congress (the last couple of years) that caused our fuel prices to double in the last year or so? Maybe a few less liberal restrictions on energy recovery in this country, and more energy producing plants (such as Nuclear), might have helped us out too.

"and i like Obamas position". Really, what the heck is his position? I am aware that out of 100 US Senators in Congress, he rates number 100 for the most liberal. That is enough right there to scare me away. I do not care for McCain at all, but the least of two evils ...

Who proposes more wilderness areas and snowmobile closures? Liberals or Conservatives?

Yes, this is a free country, so vote for who ever floats you boat, but please spend some time to understand the positions that each candidate supports. And I also suggest making a list of 5 to 10 issues that are important to you, and then make sure that you vote for the candidate that supports the majority of those issues.

:D

i like Obamas position on the war, but thats been BEAT to death.

I like his position on using alternative energy to bring down fuel prices and break our addiciton

I like his position on lowering college tuition, and letting kids work it off by community service.

I like that Obama is for abortions and spending money to get people informed about safe sex. I also like that he believes its the womens choice to have the abortion, not the families...

I also think that for being liberal, his land closure opinion is pretty dam good. When i saw him speak it was brought up, and he said he wanted to keep it open and shared for all types of recreation, and not just close it off to some people. Now to me that sounds pretty fair, and i havent even heard McCains opinion on it, but i think alot of you guys just assume because of his party that hes all for it. Things arent always what they seem.

Finally, i like Obamas position on healthcare, i know many people who cant afford it and suffer because of that. Free health care would make a world of difference to them, and millions of others.
 
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i like Obamas position on the war, but thats been BEAT to death.

I like his position on using alternative energy to bring down fuel prices and break our addiciton

I like his position on lowering college tuition, and letting kids work it off by community service.

I like that Obama is for abortions and spending money to get people informed about safe sex. I also like that he believes its the womens choice to have the abortion, not the families...

I also think that for being liberal, his land closure opinion is pretty dam good. When i saw him speak it was brought up, and he said he wanted to keep it open and shared for all types of recreation, and not just close it off to some people. Now to me that sounds pretty fair, and i havent even heard McCains opinion on it, but i think alot of you guys just assume because of his party that hes all for it. Things arent always what they seem.

Finally, i like Obamas position on healthcare, i know many people who cant afford it and suffer because of that. Free health care would make a world of difference to them, and millions of others.

Fair enough cmantle1. If those are the issues that are important to you, and you believe Obama will solve them, by all means you should vote for Obama.

I do question the "land closure opinion" though. Liberals are always far more restrictive of mutiple-use of our public lands than conservatives are. That is a fact, and is not necessarly a democrat versus republican issue. As there are some pretty liberal republicans, especially on the east coast.

McCain is also far too liberal for me, and he might not be all that great in this land use area either, but since he is less liberal than Obama - who ranks 100 out of 100 Senators as the most liberal, I will have to go with who I think is the less of the two evils. It will pain me when I pull the lever for McCain. Believe me it will.

As an FYI, Obama is a co-sponsor on these two bills:

S2316 - To designate a portion of the Arctic National Wildlife Ref uge as wilderness.

This wilderness bill locks out the recovery of billions of barrels of oil in ANWR and designates approximately 1.5 million acres of new wilderness.

S1478 - To provide lasting protection for inventoried roadless areas within the National Forest System.

This bill affects approximately 58 million acres of mostly Forest Service managed land and would manage large portions of these acres as de-facto wilderness. No timber harvest and no motorized use in many of these acres.

"(6) roadless areas provide unparalleled opportunities for hiking, camping, picnicking, wildlife viewing, hunting, fishing, cross-country skiing, canoeing, mountain-biking, and similar activities;"

"(7) while roadless areas may have many wilderness-like attributes, unlike wilderness areas, the use of mechanized means of travel is allowed in many
roadless areas;"

"SEC. 5. PROHIBITION ON TIMBER CUTTING, SALE, OR REMOVAL IN INVENTORIED ROADLESS AREAS.
(a) PROHIBITION.—Except as provided in subsection
(b), timber may not be cut, sold, or removed in an inventoried roadless area of the National Forest System."
This is probably what he meant by the statement you indicated he said when he stated "he wanted to keep it open and shared for all types of recreation, and not just close it off to some people". I don't see any mention of any motorized use in this list of "unparalleled opportunities".

But only time will tell I guess.

Edit:

Unrelated to the above dicussion, I would like to continue with my right to keep and bear arms (see attached picture).

Bitterly_Clinging_Tee_sm.jpg
 
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It said libs are the least affected by the lib mentality and what I meant by that is welfare recipents and college kids dont care about taxes because the dont pay taxes. They only recieve the benifit of guys like me Who do ! simple enough to understand?

That said I am going to guess you like MHA are no more than a product of your enviorment. Wa. like FT.Collins is full of libs and they have filled your head with so much B.S. you are starting to belive it.I think maybe I read here that you where also a college student ? Maybe I am wrong please enlighten me I truly want to understand where you are coming from.I think the key to this discussion is perspective So whats yours?

Aww it's not ruffys fault, he's just a confused ex FIB:D
 
Do I pay taxes, absolutely.

I really love how when many on here don't agree with something they can't accept it as a different point of view but the wrong point of view and call it b.s.


Who here is NOT a product of their environment?
 
Please tell me that african americans are not just voting for him because of his nationality. Seems he is still bitter.- I think you meant race.

rob had good points. Think if we pull out, who's gonna have to jump in to "peace keep" bingo the United Nations. And who's always getting sent from the United Nations, yep American troops go becaue they are sent by our government. Clinton took us to Kosovo and said "we'll be out in 12 months". Sorry to tell ya we're still there. boy that little tid bit sure does get forgotten an awful lot in political debates...

cmantle I gotta differ, I like that Obama is for abortions and spending money to get people informed about safe sex. I also like that he believes its the womens choice to have the abortion, not the families...- it took two people to decided to have bare backed sex, it should be two people deciding to kill that child. Even though that child shouldn't be punished for Mom or Dads F'ups. Also, Free health care would make a world of difference to them, and millions of others.-they all ready have it. I work at a BIG healthcare institution and guess who pays for Mohamed or Tyrel or Jose or white trash Joes ER visits for a cough? I know guys who are quads and never have nor will have to pay for a single bill even though they didn't have insurance. There is a very fine line that we need to walk with "free" healthcare.


As for either person saying I'd like to keep this open or I'd do that. Come on guys, hate it or love it The Daily Show got it right. They will say anything to appease the crowd, it's called pandering. Remember that Hitler guy, he was so big because he told the "crowd" what they wanted to hear. Next thing ya know the world got what it got.
 
Sure it took two people for a women to become pregnant, but only one of them is going to have HER body change and have carry it, and feed it while it is inside of HER.
 
Sure it took two people for a women to become pregnant, but only one of them is going to have HER body change and have carry it, and feed it while it is inside of HER.

Really, cause I sure changed knowing I had a child coming...So just because a chick doesn't want to deal with 9 months of feeding a baby and doesn't want her body to change, it is ok to kill the child. What if the dad wants to have his life change forever and put it on hold to raise that child? Your arguement sounds very superfiscial and selfish of the mother.
 
Really, cause I sure changed knowing I had a child coming...So just because a chick doesn't want to deal with 9 months of feeding a baby and doesn't want her body to change, it is ok to kill the child. What if the dad wants to have his life change forever and put it on hold to raise that child? Your arguement sounds very superfiscial and selfish of the mother.

technically it is not a baby yet. It is not considered life until I think it is 6 months old, which is the point in the pregnancy that if the mother was to die the fetus could still survive on it's own.

you say that is selfish of the mother, but it is HER (not yours) body. No one should tell anyone what they can and cannot do with their own body.

It would be like forcing you to get sterilized for the better of mankind, it is your body and your choice. Sorry but it is not the father's child until it leaves the mother.
 
technically it is not a baby yet. It is not considered life until I think it is 6 months old, which is the point in the pregnancy that if the mother was to die the fetus could still survive on it's own.

you say that is selfish of the mother, but it is HER (not yours) body. No one should tell anyone what they can and cannot do with their own body.

It would be like forcing you to get sterilized for the better of mankind, it is your body and your choice. Sorry but it is not the father's child until it leaves the mother.

Man from a biological stand point life begins at conception, also if there is a heart beat, etc. I'm not telling the mother what to do with her body. Hell she can color it, shred it whatever. But that "fetus" isn't just hers...Ask any father when they first became a dad, I bet not one says "oh not until the baby was delivered". I don't mind most of yous posts, but this one....I dunno.

I'm a big believer in consequences for actions and dealing with them. Abortion is a cop out. Not one person in this country doens't know sex without rubbers or with them(or birth control) leads to babies. YOu choose to pull your dick out or spread your legs. you knew what could happen, so deal with it. If you won't want the baby then adoption, but to say it's "your" body and you don't want to be pregnant is just wrong.
 
I am personally against abortion, and I don't think it should be used except for certain reasons. I also do not think this is anyone but the mothers decision.

Life does not begin at conception, there is no heartbeat and if the mother was to die that moment there would be no other life.

It is like saying you are murdering babies by cranking one off to your favorite magazine, there is no life there. It is simply a cell at that point.
 
the heart beat begins around the 8th week about the same time the embryo is considered a fetus, NOT 6 months, therefore at 2 months it is considered life
 
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the heart beat begins around the 8th week about the same time the embryo is considered a fetus, NOT 6 months, therefore at 2 months it is considered life

The age of "vaibility" (when the fetus is capable of living on it's own) is 5 months.
http://neoreviews.aappublications.org/cgi/content/extract/4/6/e153


From a purely scientific/doctor standpoint that is not life because it cannot support it self, which is what is required for life.

The same reason someone is not technically alive if they are on a breathing machine...
 
Don't really care to read all the posts but this is my take. Politics almost by definition is pandering. It's like a church. You tell the sheeple what they want to hear. The fact is there is little to any difference between each party and candidate. If you blame Bush for the economy, you're simply not well informed. If you think that the US will go to hell and become a muslim country if Obama is elected, you're also uninformed. I'm not a fan of either party. The Repubs have allowed the deficit and spending to run out of control. The Dems are no different and will grow Govt. even more. Neither party are going to allow far right or far left judges to be seated on the supreme court. The beauty is they counter each other. That is democracy. The down side is they both spend like it's not their money. When Clinton was pres and Newt was house leader, the balance worked pretty good and both were fortunate to be in office when the economy was on the up cycle. All I would say is think independently, understand who each party is going to pander to, and vote accordingly. If you're lower income you'll most likely fair better under the Dems. If you white with an income exceeding $100k and possess some measure of inherited or earned family wealth, vote for Repub. The war is just an exercise for our military complex. There is no draft and you are free to not join. We need to protect our interest in the middle east and yes the war is for oil. So what. Avoid the party cults and if you're blood nears a boil when thinking of either candidate being elected... get a life. There are more important things to worry about. The only church I'm a member of is the Church of Duke1n.
 
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Don't really care to read all the posts but this is my take. Politics almost by definition is pandering. It's like a church. You tell the sheeple what they want to hear. The fact is there is little to any difference between each party and candidate. If you blame Bush for the economy, you're simply not well informed. If you think that the US will go to hell and become a muslim country if Obama is elected, you're also uninformed. I'm not a fan of either party. The Repubs have allowed the deficit and spending to run out of control. The Dems are no different and will grow Govt. even more. Neither party are going to allow far right or far left judges to be seated on the supreme court. The beauty is they counter each other. That is democracy. The down side is they both spend like it's not their money. When Clinton was pres and Newt was house leader, the balance worked pretty good and both were fortunate to be in office when the economy was on the up cycle. All I would say is think independently, understand who each party is going to pander to, and vote accordingly. If you're lower income you'll most likely fair better under the Dems. If you white with an income exceeding $100k and possess some measure of inherited or earned family wealth, vote for Repub. The war is just an exercise for our military complex. There is no draft and you are free to not join. We need to protect our interest in the middle east and yes the war is for oil. So what. Avoid the party cults and if you're blood nears a boil when thinking of either candidate being elected... get a life. There are more important things to worry about. The only church I'm a member of is the Church of Duke1n.
i agree with everything you said except for "and yes the war is for oil" don't you think if it was for oil it'd be a little bit cheaper for us? on top of that do we not get most of our oil from saudi? which might i add is deverting a great deal of that oil to china
 
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