2023 cat. Where is it?

[M7sleddn]

yes the turbos are a big difference between cat and the others. Last year the dealer i bought from only snowchecked four NA sleds. 50 turbos. I spoke with them yesterday and they are snowchecking almost all turbos this year. Last year they checked 4 lynx sleds. Me being one of them. This year with the lynx turbo they have snowchecked a lot of them. Turbo sell right now whether people need them or not. Not one day this year have I needed a turbo. I ride NA because I really like tree riding and I can't even ride my NA close to its potential. So why spend the extra money

 

[NHRoadking]

Huge Cat dealer in our area finally had to take on Polaris too to make it work. They had only sold Cats for decades.

That's how bad it's getting for Cat dealers.

Here's hoping they do something big soon.

 

[boondocker97]

Im suprised that the concept of electrical power plant hadnt been talked about…Maybe thats why they arent chasing the 850-900 ccs from other manufacturers. When you see how Tesla plaids are smoking almost every gas powered car out there, it would be silly not to look into this!! No elevation power loss, no noise to piss off left wing bitches, no emmisions, instant torque, fewer moving parts….by far=lighter and more dependable.
Dont get me wrong, I love the braaap of a good ol 2 smoke, but youre fooling yourselves if you think that they will be around for much longer.

Funny you should say that...

A HINT AT FUTURE ARCTIC CAT SNOWMOBILE PRODUCT? | ArcticInsider

www.arcticinsider.com

 

[IDspud]

Whoopty crap.
I know a Polaris dealer that started selling cats a few year ago.
Honda dealer also bought into cat recently.
Is Honda doomed?

 

[turboless terry]

yes the turbos are a big difference between cat and the others. Last year the dealer i bought from only snowchecked four NA sleds. 50 turbos. I spoke with them yesterday and they are snowchecking almost all turbos this year. Last year they checked 4 lynx sleds. Me being one of them. This year with the lynx turbo they have snowchecked a lot of them. Turbo sell right now whether people need them or not. Not one day this year have I needed a turbo. I ride NA because I really like tree riding and I can't even ride my NA close to its potential. So why spend the extra money

Na and turbos are both awesome. They each have there days. Not up to anyone else to decide what a person needs. It has been a bad year. You can't even get a sled stuck in our snow this year. I always want more. I am always looking for the next best thing. That is the way I'm wired. Some people are willing to settle. I'm not.

 

[Turbo Thompson]

Whoopty crap.
I know a Polaris dealer that started selling cats a few year ago.
Honda dealer also bought into cat recently.
Is Honda doomed?

Come on no need to get butt hurt now.
My local dealer dropped cat in 2016 and sells doo only now. They also dropped Kawasaki for husky in 2019. Dealer sell what sells best *for their area*.

 

[M7sleddn]

Yes I agree. na and turbos are amazing. My dad has an alpha so I have spent a fair amount of time on it. Anyone who says any of the big three aren't competitive has their head where the sun don't shine. My brother in law rides Polaris. I'm on a lynx right now. They are all so close and they all have good and bad aspects. My main point is that turbos are selling right now and AC doesn't have one. AC is missing the turbo craze and a lot of sales because of it.

 

[IDspud]

Not sure how that affects me at all, let alone my butt?

 

[Devilmanak]

I’ve watched the videos and stand by my statement. They made no more drastic of changes from g4 to g5 than cat did with the proclimb and then ascender.

Ok.

 

[Devilmanak]

You need to stop believing the hype game.. the reason BRP and arctic had a patent infringement dispute last year in Canada is because of the use of the pyramid frame. The pyramid frame is to a snowmobile what a frame is for a truck or a platform is for a car. All three are using the same pyramid design since 10 years back.. what springs, what plastics, what runningboards, tunnel and so forth are not new chassis.. all three brands rub 10+ year old chassi.. Polaris has tried with glued carbon pyramid and went back to aluminum. Arctic front end is better than both Polaris and BRP with more travel so of course it won't be changed.

In 2022 saying one manufacturer is behind the other or that things are "new" or way better is just ignorant.. frames are the same, dropped chaincases are the same, skis are just about the same, sleds get updated and we have to be satisfied with that.. what the next trailing arm like inovation will be who knows, but won't happen 2023..

Ok.

 

[IDspud]

Hey, don’t tap out now Devil.
We still waiting on fresh snow.

 

[Jaynelson]

Whoopty crap.
I know a Polaris dealer that started selling cats a few year ago.
Honda dealer also bought into cat recently.
Is Honda doomed?

If a dealer was big in to ATV and SXS, Honda (and all Japanese manu’s) has been building very few pieces the last couple years. So if you wanted some lot coverage, bringing in some AC summer product would keep the rain off your pavement and look the part. Guaranteed to stick around for a few years too…so no hassles of selling it, re-ordering, or any of that ugliness

 

[Clark42]

I've owned all 3 brands since 2019. Cat was competitive in 2019/2020 and that's where it ended. Cat does not compete with the new offerings from Skidoo and Polaris at all. Cat has a good track and it ends there. Maybe we will see a reborn cat brand but they are running out of time. I feel bad for dealers that have cat as their solo winter brand.

I’m curious, just the track? I would think they have some of the best stock clutching? Pretty nice to have factory qs3 shocks as well. I’d go as far as to say the engine is good too, I enjoy my ctec, although the doo is butter smooth.

So I guess cat just lacks the turbo? The one item everyone thinks they need to make themselves a better rider haha (I say that facetiously, not directed at you)

 

[Jaynelson]

The modern sleds are all much better than the average, and even above average rider. Just like the 450MX bikes….I can’t ride a new RM450 to its potential, and it’s still a fast bike that rides good. But it’s still way out of date and not the same thing compared to a KTM, Honda, or Yam. Straight up. Why? Because Suzuki doesn’t care, rolled the race program way back, lost a bunch of dealers, and sells virtually 0 MX bikes compared to others these days. Sounds familiar right? Again I don’t understand sticking up for them…they did it to themselves!

So if you like it; that’s fantastic. And you can tell yourself all the reasons it’s better, or the same, or whatever ya gotta do. Just a good all around sled that’s out of date compared to the others. May not even matter on the mountain depending on the terrain and who’s riding it. Doesn’t make it any less out of date or any more appealing.

 

[Old & slow]

2012 (agree it was a train wreck)
2013 Limiteds got short coolers and painted tunnels and rails cutting way down on snow and ice buildup.
2014 had 26 improvements over the 2013 scattered throughout the sled. Rode better than it's predecessors and truely was IMO what the 2012 should have been.
2016 got new suspension geometry front and rear, all new clutches, stronger chain case components, new skis, and a 3" track option. Rode better than its predecessors. This was as good of an overhaul as a XP to a XM IMO.
2017 Mountain Cat got revised driveshaft location and narrower running boards/belly pan, lighter tunnel. Yamaha turbo powerplant. Rumor is should have been new motor too, but changed piston vendors. Polaris would have hyped it, sent it, and dealt with the fallout.
2018 new motor, new primary clutch, new plastic, dropped a little weight. Between 2017 and 2018 change to Ascender was another XP to XM type update.
2019 Alpha rail and track option with 10" wheels to free up HP and new skis.
2021 equivalent of FOX IQS suspension setup available from the factory.
2022 Finally sealed up the intake!!! (haha) New lighter, narrower primary clutch.

Hardly any big tech videos explaining and touting how much better all these things were. Small video animation of the Alpha rail and Adapt clutch, but nothing that really would give you a grasp of by how much it was going to improve your riding experience. Oh, and this gem from 2013!

To say they don't have a marketing problem is silly. Many of the things you missed in your list proves that. I don't know if Cat doesn't like hyping their improvements because they think it also highlights the faults of older models, but they need to forget that and hire people that can spin that stuff over their competition. That old video of Rob and Dave there generated a lot of discussion regardless of how true or scientific it was. Even if the static weight is more, tout the riding weight and how balanced the sled is left to right... like this SnoWest graphic from the 2014s. Everyone would have sworn a Polaris was the lightest to tip, but the data showed it was heaviest one way. My new supercharger sled is perfectly balanced from one side to the other and it's pretty nice!
View attachment 385782

Cat's dealer network and racer support needs improvement. Badly. No discussion there.

There also seems to be a huge problem with the bean counters holding back innovation. The 2012 prototypes were lightweight tube chassis rigs. The Alpha rail concept was on the snow in 2013. What Cat engineering and R&D cooked up in the past and has behind doors right now are good things. Cat and Textron have a problem not seeing the forest for the trees and need to get the stuff out on the snow and sell it! Some of us just get frustrated waiting sometimes.

You could add new pistons, cylinders and head in 2020 (+5 hp) to your list also. Nice job on all the info.

 

[10003514]

I’m curious, just the track? I would think they have some of the best stock clutching? Pretty nice to have factory qs3 shocks as well. I’d go as far as to say the engine is good too, I enjoy my ctec, although the doo is butter smooth.

So I guess cat just lacks the turbo? The one item everyone thinks they need to make themselves a better rider haha (I say that facetiously, not directed at you)

2 2019 alphas ( 1 was mine) and a 2020 Yamaha in my group over the last few seasons. Cats clutching is good but we have had 2 primary clutches fail. Cats engine makes decent power for an 800, we have had 3 fail. The qs3 are nice but poor valving, Polaris and skidoos top coilovers are just as good. The one alpha left in our group had his front rear suspension arm break on the trial first ride of the year. Second ride of the year his steering post broke off, safe to say his sled is being sold. I can go on and on but from my experience and the terrain/snow I ride in BC cat is a distant 3rd. They have also been the least reliable sleds for us.

And yes they need a turbo.

 

[summ8rmk]

2 2019 alphas ( 1 was mine) and a 2020 Yamaha in my group over the last few seasons. Cats clutching is good but we have had 2 primary clutches fail. Cats engine makes decent power for an 800, we have had 3 fail. The qs3 are nice but poor valving, Polaris and skidoos top coilovers are just as good. The one alpha left in our group had his front rear suspension arm break on the trial first ride of the year. Second ride of the year his steering post broke off, safe to say his sled is being sold. I can go on and on but from my experience and the terrain/snow I ride in BC cat is a distant 3rd. They have also been the least reliable sleds for us.

And yes they need a turbo.

If you are speaking solely on performance.

You think the Alpha is a distant 3rd in BC snow because,
1. that particular rider(or riders) is the least talented in ur group. (Even if that person Is you!)
Or
2. u are comparing N/A to turbos. (Which is a very stupid comparison, and u should be ashamed)

All 3 will trade highmarks.
All 3 have faults.

Broken suspension on the trail isn't from that days trail ride, it's from the repeated abuse over the life of the sled. Luckily for u guys, it broke on the trail and not at the bottom of a ravine.

Same as the broken steering post. Roll the sled much? Every kid thinks it's cool to roll their sled down the hill to get un-stuck. Deep snow isn't bad. Hard snow, logs, rocks, will break stuff real quick.

They all break when riden hard and or abused.





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[goridedoo]

I’m curious, just the track? I would think they have some of the best stock clutching? Pretty nice to have factory qs3 shocks as well. I’d go as far as to say the engine is good too, I enjoy my ctec, although the doo is butter smooth.

So I guess cat just lacks the turbo? The one item everyone thinks they need to make themselves a better rider haha (I say that facetiously, not directed at you)

I agree with the track being the only thing Cat has over the others right now.

Doo and Poo have excellent clutching and have for years.

Doo and Poo have good shock package options, they've come a long ways. Poo's monotube walker evans are trash with the factory valving, but the high end options are excellent. I was blown away at how good the piggyback walkers were on my buddies 2020 Axys, I had instant regret from spending $2500 on QS3s. They claim the Velocitys are better. Atac is cool I will give Cat that- this is a product that deserves the marketing it never got.

The Ctec is fine. The 850 NAs definitely FEEL stronger, but the Cat will hang.



Heres my Cat wishlist for 2023-
Either a new chassis, or a total refresh. It just needs serious refinement and updating- total intake redesign, belt drive, new boards, bars, controls, gauge, narrower, 34" stance, clean up, shorten, and taper the rear tunnel section. Best thing would be to start from scratch with a new chassis, there's a stigma attached with it still technically being the proclimb, even though it does work well now.

Twin rail option with the Alpha track. Do like Doo and market this option like the expert.

They need a big bore and a turbo option.

 

[goridedoo]

2012 (agree it was a train wreck)
2013 Limiteds got short coolers and painted tunnels and rails cutting way down on snow and ice buildup.
2014 had 26 improvements over the 2013 scattered throughout the sled. Rode better than it's predecessors and truely was IMO what the 2012 should have been.
2016 got new suspension geometry front and rear, all new clutches, stronger chain case components, new skis, and a 3" track option. Rode better than its predecessors. This was as good of an overhaul as a XP to a XM IMO.
2017 Mountain Cat got revised driveshaft location and narrower running boards/belly pan, lighter tunnel. Yamaha turbo powerplant. Rumor is should have been new motor too, but changed piston vendors. Polaris would have hyped it, sent it, and dealt with the fallout.
2018 new motor, new primary clutch, new plastic, dropped a little weight. Between 2017 and 2018 change to Ascender was another XP to XM type update.
2019 Alpha rail and track option with 10" wheels to free up HP and new skis.
2021 equivalent of FOX IQS suspension setup available from the factory.
2022 Finally sealed up the intake!!! (haha) New lighter, narrower primary clutch.

Hardly any big tech videos explaining and touting how much better all these things were. Small video animation of the Alpha rail and Adapt clutch, but nothing that really would give you a grasp of by how much it was going to improve your riding experience. Oh, and this gem from 2013!

To say they don't have a marketing problem is silly. Many of the things you missed in your list proves that. I don't know if Cat doesn't like hyping their improvements because they think it also highlights the faults of older models, but they need to forget that and hire people that can spin that stuff over their competition. That old video of Rob and Dave there generated a lot of discussion regardless of how true or scientific it was. Even if the static weight is more, tout the riding weight and how balanced the sled is left to right... like this SnoWest graphic from the 2014s. Everyone would have sworn a Polaris was the lightest to tip, but the data showed it was heaviest one way. My new supercharger sled is perfectly balanced from one side to the other and it's pretty nice!
View attachment 385782

Cat's dealer network and racer support needs improvement. Badly. No discussion there.

There also seems to be a huge problem with the bean counters holding back innovation. The 2012 prototypes were lightweight tube chassis rigs. The Alpha rail concept was on the snow in 2013. What Cat engineering and R&D cooked up in the past and has behind doors right now are good things. Cat and Textron have a problem not seeing the forest for the trees and need to get the stuff out on the snow and sell it! Some of us just get frustrated waiting sometimes.

Good post. I missed alot. Thanks.

 

[gonehuntnpowder]

I hope some of you are right that textron is in for the long haul. I rode 19-21 with a few guys on alphas. Great sleds. I think the monorail and track are both amazing. If the 800 cat had any less horsepower than the Doo and Polaris 850 that never showed up on the mountain. It just needs to lose a little weight to sell me. My shoulders are getting bad so I want electric/shot start. The Polaris it lighter, so you add the primitive electric start it brings it up to the Doo, but you do the same to the cat it’s a lot. If I see some commitment from textron to snowmobiles, I may give to a whirl, otherwise it’s doo or build a polecat.