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2023 cat. Where is it?

Proved your point? Cats not making changes at the rate that Doo and Poo are.

They’ve really fallen behind, and they are gonna have a really hard time selling 2023s if they don’t step up.
But why do they need to make changes when doo and poo are just barely adding features cat has had for years? Aside from the turbos, I’ll give you that one. once again, unless we include the 4 strokes then in that case cat was ahead of the game on turbos by about 16 years or so.

You say cats behind because they haven’t changed chassis in ten years, I say cats just been waiting for the others to catch up.
 
This right here is exactly the reason cats lack of marketing is their biggest problem.

You, and many others, act like there were multiple ground breaking changes from doo and poo for the same years as the proclimb/ascender were around, while cat did nothing but that’s not the case if your honest with your self. Xp and xm were the same chassis with a suspension and plastic change and that chassis was around for 8 years, yet doo didn’t get drug through the mud for some reason. The g4 and g5 are the same chassis with new plastics and narrow running boards but it’s some how revolutionary and puts skidoo “so far ahead of everyone else” even though cat made those same changes 4 years ago. I don’t consider the turbo and turbo r different engines either when it’s most likely nothing more than a tune change. So they really had one new chassis come out, one new engine then added a turbo during that time frame. Far from ground breaking tech changes every other year like people act.

Poo maybe made a few more changes with the engines, but even they haven’t changed things as drastically as people make it sound. They went from pro to axys, which you could argue is a new chassis even though the axys is just a pro with a lift kit. From pro 800 to axys 800 engine, which everyone knows was needed with how horrible the pro engine was. Then came the 850 which also got off to a bad start. Then the matryx comes out which is just a rebodied axys and once again it’s hailed as revolutionary even though all of its hot “new” features besides the turbo have been on these outdated proclimb/ascender sleds for years. Such as the short tunnel which cats ran since 2009, powder coated tunnel and short cooler on cat since 2013, roller bearing clutch cat 2017, magnetic tether cat 2019, heck the matryx even switched to the same master cylinder that cats been running since 2019 or so if you wanna get not picky. So basically Polaris has released 1 actual new chassis, a couple engines that were needed, and a turbo. Again not drastic changes every other year. Sure the bulkhead on the cat my be the same as 2012 but that’s about it. They’ve basically made improvements on that sled every single year from the time it came out with the big ones being all new suspension in 2016 with 3 inch powerclaw, dropped chain case and narrow running boards in 2017, new plastics and engine in ‘18, alpha in ‘19, and atacc or whatever the push button shocks are called in ‘21. So it’s definitely not that they haven’t done anything, yet that’s how everyone acts. Doo or poo make a simple plastics change and it’s praised as revolutionary, cat does the exact same thing and they get ridiculed for it. That’s where the marketing aspect comes in imo. Or lack there of in cats case. People literally have no idea that cat has made changes because cat doesn’t talk about them. Then you get the nonsense comments that the current sled is the same sled as the pile that came out in 2012 which anyone that’s rode both know is far from the truth.
Vern, you need to do some research on the G5. It is NOT the same sled as the G4. Saying that it is is ignorant. This isn't Xp to Xm, it is not XM to G4 (although XM to G4 was much bigger than XP to Xm), it is a completely different sled. A-arms, engine mounts, clutch cooling system, body panels, headlights, completely new rear skid, narrowed running boards, quick-change drivers for track changes, different tracks, new cooling system, adjustable brake lever, new skis, etc.
 
Devil
I believe Vern and I, others in here have referenced it as well in doo sections, read the same initial release by brp where THEY state that this is the same bulkhead, yes they made a lot of changes, but still the same bulkhead, but refined. Definitely improved.
I see it as similar to the changes when cat evolved into the ascender chassis.
Same bulkhead, revolutionary changes.
 
look how long it took polaris to shy away from 2.86 pitch tracks with 2.4 and 2.6" lugs and center drivers. I though that was the ticket? are they still putting walker evans shocks on em, good lord....
 
Vern, you need to do some research on the G5. It is NOT the same sled as the G4. Saying that it is is ignorant. This isn't Xp to Xm, it is not XM to G4 (although XM to G4 was much bigger than XP to Xm), it is a completely different sled. A-arms, engine mounts, clutch cooling system, body panels, headlights, completely new rear skid, narrowed running boards, quick-change drivers for track changes, different tracks, new cooling system, adjustable brake lever, new skis, etc.

You need to stop believing the hype game.. the reason BRP and arctic had a patent infringement dispute last year in Canada is because of the use of the pyramid frame. The pyramid frame is to a snowmobile what a frame is for a truck or a platform is for a car. All three are using the same pyramid design since 10 years back.. what springs, what plastics, what runningboards, tunnel and so forth are not new chassis.. all three brands rub 10+ year old chassi.. Polaris has tried with glued carbon pyramid and went back to aluminum. Arctic front end is better than both Polaris and BRP with more travel so of course it won't be changed.

In 2022 saying one manufacturer is behind the other or that things are "new" or way better is just ignorant.. frames are the same, dropped chaincases are the same, skis are just about the same, sleds get updated and we have to be satisfied with that.. what the next trailing arm like inovation will be who knows, but won't happen 2023..
 
I'm not sure marketing is the problem. If something is really good, word gets out. A marketing firm can do all the advertising they want, but the proof is in the pudding (sales numbers). Ride anywhere in the West and see what people have. Mostly Poo and Doo, a few Cats. I've owned them all and eventually come to own what I like and works for me. Yes, dealers are super important and that's one of Cats biggest downfall, they're aren't many of them. It's like trucks, tractors, beer or anything else for that matter. People like what works for them. Snowest forums are all sled heads. If something is that good, People pay attention. Use Klim as an example. Is it the best out there? I don't know, but I've tried a lot of riding gear and for me (and a lot of others) it works amazing. Marketing is important, but it's not everything. Great products sell themselves.
 
Vern, you need to do some research on the G5. It is NOT the same sled as the G4. Saying that it is is ignorant. This isn't Xp to Xm, it is not XM to G4 (although XM to G4 was much bigger than XP to Xm), it is a completely different sled. A-arms, engine mounts, clutch cooling system, body panels, headlights, completely new rear skid, narrowed running boards, quick-change drivers for track changes, different tracks, new cooling system, adjustable brake lever, new skis, etc.

I’ve watched the videos and stand by my statement. They made no more drastic of changes from g4 to g5 than cat did with the proclimb and then ascender.
 
I'm not sure marketing is the problem. If something is really good, word gets out. A marketing firm can do all the advertising they want, but the proof is in the pudding (sales numbers). Ride anywhere in the West and see what people have. Mostly Poo and Doo, a few Cats. I've owned them all and eventually come to own what I like and works for me. Yes, dealers are super important and that's one of Cats biggest downfall, they're aren't many of them. It's like trucks, tractors, beer or anything else for that matter. People like what works for them. Snowest forums are all sled heads. If something is that good, People pay attention. Use Klim as an example. Is it the best out there? I don't know, but I've tried a lot of riding gear and for me (and a lot of others) it works amazing. Marketing is important, but it's not everything. Great products sell themselves.
Normally I would agree with you with people finding out what works and then word of mouth spreading it, but in todays social media society that’s not how it works. People want to be told how to think. They don’t care about quality or performance, they just want what’s popular. So when they see all of the big name who’s who’s of the snowmobile world on Polaris, that’s what they want. That’s where the marketing comes into play and that’s where Polaris is killing it. They figured out the social media system and how to work it, and kudos to them for figuring it out. Even doo is starting to get on the bandwagon a bit with the social media and getting some well known riders out there, but cat has no one and in this climate it’s hurting them. They had a huge opportunity to get in the game with Caleb kesterke who was creating a huge following on social media riding a cat, but they stood around with their thumb up there buts and let Polaris do what they do and swipe him up to add another big up and coming name to their list. Yes us older guys still go buy what works for us, but it’s not how the younger generation works. I’m on some automotive social media pages and I’ve seen time and time again where factual tech info from people with years of experience will get disregarded simply because it goes against the popular opinion of the page. You don’t see it as much on these type forums, because it’s mostly the older generations still hanging out here but get over to Facebook and popularity is top priority over any other factors, and in todays society that is what brings the sales.
 
i forgot cat was first with the big rear track wheels, polaris just got extrovert drivers with track clips cats had them for years.
there were many more changes than what was listed in a previous post as well. I'll agree that cat alienated most of there dealers. We've been arguing about sleds, but I noticed that there haven't been any spy shots other than that guage, or even any hints of any kind.
 
i forgot cat was first with the big rear track wheels, polaris just got extrovert drivers with track clips cats had them for years.
there were many more changes than what was listed in a previous post as well. I'll agree that cat alienated most of there dealers. We've been arguing about sleds, but I noticed that there haven't been any spy shots other than that guage, or even any hints of any kind.
That gauge is a test unit from the gauge manufacturer. The pic is over a yr old.

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Ya it's the same sled ( Alpha) ...... but when you toss a leg over it,..... That's The Game Changer-and all the wants of shiny stuff and BNG goes away- cause it works-!
 
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Lets all be honest here. Ad boivin was revolutionary. Worst marketing ever. So you can thank them for all of you riding the outdated sleds you are today. Very first to have no tunnel, skinny plastics, belt drive, tether and the smallest "running boards" ever. But they marketed it as a "trail" sled.

Please keep the arguing going. This is a better thread than '23 doo and '23 polaris :ROFLMAO:
 
i forgot cat was first with the big rear track wheels, polaris just got extrovert drivers with track clips cats had them for years.
there were many more changes than what was listed in a previous post as well. I'll agree that cat alienated most of there dealers. We've been arguing about sleds, but I noticed that there haven't been any spy shots other than that guage, or even any hints of any kind.
Whos's the first to do stuff is totally irrelevant. What matters is how the entire package works today.
 
Well let me ask you this, could let's say burandts 5th best student out ride you on a 22 alpha? My dad use to say a poor craftsman blames his tools? But that is obviously not a fair statement but then again I'll still say the percentage of guys who need it is smaller than this argument let's on...
 
How?

I think you are missing the point,
I like ur passion and conviction.
U see changes every yr from Doo And Poo, and u believe that makes them better than Cat.

Cat also makes significant changes every yr, just not on the mountain sleds. It seems there allotment isn't as large as the other 2 so, they spread the $ to different segments each yr.

Some of these New changes u see from Doo And Poo, are mimicking what cat has already done. 22 matryx is essentially an improved 8yr old 2014 m8000. Also mimicking the Doo expert.

You say Doo And Poo are changing constantly and it makes them better, then u say it doesn't matter who does it first.

The performance speaks for itself.

Then u compare a turbo engine to the N/A. Cat had there 200hp turbo engine. Wasn't a big seller. They quit before the others had their turbo mtn sleds.



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Goridedoo, your addition to your statement adds nothing.
All of your progression arguments are complete BS if it doesn’t matter.

I agree it doesn’t matter, leapfrogging is what pushes all competition.
However, your statement invalidates your personal push for cat to release new today or fade away forever.
 
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