XP big bores - lets compare

[TurboJamie]

My personal experience with an RKT head was power loss on the dyno no matter what jetting they say to run, it would knock, moved knock sensor to water neck (xp) motor went down on his recommendations. Great stuff!!

Installed Dj clutch kit last season sled was inconsistent in RPM talked to Joe, he said lower your belt in secondary umm ok so Im giving up shift ratio in the low end now. Tried all the springs recommended belts etc. Nothing would make the RPM consistant, finally gave up, and bought a kit from Dunn (flat lander) and ran it, on a 383 with over 1000 miles on it. 8200 RPM every time you stab the throttle consistantly day in day out clicker #3 never had to click for conditions it was bang on the money. Also with DJ kit I was blowing belts in 80 miles every time ran the entire rest of the season on Dunn kit with same belt, that same belt has over 3000 miles on it today. Just sayin....

 

[Insaneboltrounder/sjohns]

Should be fixed !!

too bad your parents werent

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

My personal experience with an RKT head was power loss on the dyno no matter what jetting they say to run, it would knock, moved knock sensor to water neck (xp) motor went down on his recommendations. Great stuff!!

Installed Dj clutch kit last season sled was inconsistent in RPM talked to Joe, he said lower your belt in secondary umm ok so Im giving up shift ratio in the low end now. Tried all the springs recommended belts etc. Nothing would make the RPM consistant, finally gave up, and bought a kit from Dunn (flat lander) and ran it, on a 383 with over 1000 miles on it. 8200 RPM every time you stab the throttle consistantly day in day out clicker #3 never had to click for conditions it was bang on the money. Also with DJ kit I was blowing belts in 80 miles every time ran the entire rest of the season on Dunn kit with same belt, that same belt has over 3000 miles on it today. Just sayin....

Run the belt lower in the secondary is the last thing I would say, in fact I would never say something like that. I always say raise the belt to the point of where the track off the ground and engine idling the track can slowly turn. When there is an rpm fluctuation problem, you just eliminated one element that can contribute to the problem.
I even have a video of it here.

Your math doesn't add up.

Quotes Jamie)
Posted on: Mar 11 2009, 04:36 PM
Thats cool 1500 miles on my assault now still going strong!

DOOTalk Forums > DOOTalk Shopping Mall > Classifieds > Sleds
Mar 5 2009, 09:06 AM
2008 Ski Doo Rev Xp, has 2000 miles, 800 R engine. V Force Reeds, with Bondi Airbox, Bondi Porting and head, Bondi temp sensor relocate. Dave Dunn clutching with Grip N Rip quick clickers. 2 tracks available for the sled as well. I have the 1.25" ice ripper XT track for the sled and a 1.75" deep lug for deep snow track for this sled.

Posted on: Mar 25 2009, 01:32 PM
1.25" Ice Ripper XT the 70% on trail 30%off
1.75" Paddle the 70% off trail 30% on
I did about the same distance of riding on both tracks approximately 1500 miles on each of dial time.

Posted on: Mar 26 2009, 07:09 PM...I acually have just over 900 miles on my 383 running the 1.75" track and that includes powder playing! Might be why yours doesn't go like you want it to.

Xs803 belt still the only one I can put on my sled. Another 200 miles this weekend making it 700 all togeather on my sled. I cannot get over 50 miles from a doo belt, 166,377,383 none of em. The XS is all I run now, not that I prefer it I still think the 383 is faster but its worth it in not blowing belts. No belt dust on my sled either.

...The doo belts will not stay on my sled. I run the Ultimax XS803 belt on my sled max range on a doo belt for me is 200 miles. I have just over 1100 miles on my ultimax belt now and it has a 1 year warranty if anything happens.

...I use a different belt XS803 as they don't blow on my sled and I needed to change calibration in springs and weight to make it work.

...I have been chasing blowing belts on my sleds since it was brand new last year. My 800r renegade would kill doo belts 100 miles or less. We had spent considerable time on alignment etc and shimming everything to get the darn sled to not blow bets and it still did so we started messing with our own alighment specs and finally have a sled that is not blowing belts. Its going to take some mechanical skill to fix your sled if you are in the same boat as I was and I can assure you your dealer is useless in this matter if there is not enough room left in the motor mounts to get the engine where it needs to be. Since the alignment I have just shy of 800 miles on a 383 I could not keep on my sled before.

Well I don't know what to say about all of this. Could the gross misalignment be an issue for the kit to work the best with one particular belt? yes or no?
Maybe my clutch kit would not run correctly in the sled because you did not have correct belt deflection and ran the belt lower in the secondary, I don't know. I think you heard or read me wrong.

With the 383 belt it runs low rpms for the first tank of fuel
Runs proper rpms for 2 tanks of fuel
Runs high rpms after that.
Grows up to 4 millimeters longer within 500 miles - And since the aramid fiber is stronger than steel, the fibers do not stretch, it is the rubber dislocating causing the outer diameter to be larger.
...well how do you calibrate with a belt like that?

Im grateful that I have a relationship with my clutch kit competitors that have the same observations and after messing around more during the season finding that the 166's coming across the shelf have been 1-7/16 wide and work now because they are near the proper width, or recalibrate with the 377 and a new primary spring.

Yeah, (insert sarcasm) Im sure misalignment had nothing to do with calibration not running correctly!

I have remedied customers who've removed the 383 and got to run with the 166 or 377 belt and if could not, you had the chance to send the kit back to me for a refund, to which Im the only one out here who'll do that.

According to the math there is 3000 miles on 383 belt and over 1100 miles on 803 belt = 4400 miles just on those belts not including all the other belts you say you've blown. So even if it was an average of 90 miles on a (1)166, (1)377, (1)383 then that would be another 270 miles taking to a total this season to just under 4700 miles on a 2 yr old sled that has 2000 miles.
You run 2 tracks on your sled totalling 3000 miles, is there any other tracks you ran that you never told anyone about that got the other 1400 miles?

Thanks for the cheers, sorry you have a chip on your shoulder with me.

This will be a good post to save in my favorites.

 

[tntm7]

LATEST DESIGN.....2 seasons ago when i purchased the LATEST DESIGN M7 HEAD i was told the same LATEST DESIGN story.


Now that TNTM7 is recieving a head that sounds like a head that will be designed for his motor mod its supposed to be the latest and greatest. LMAO

What about the latest design i was sold that now works better as an ash tray in my shop than it ever did installed on the top of our M7 Jugs ?

BJ, as for your issues with Joe Q Skidoo. perhaps if you added "setup intstruction" included in the packageing Joe Q Skidoo wouldn't be calling..... And if Joe Q Skidoo burns down with 450's you will buy him a Piston ???.....Who going to repair the cylinders if needed ? And what about Joe Q Skidoo's down time ? It doesn't matter as long as the sale is made, right BJ and Kelsey ?


OT

Well if you have one at your shop that's being used as an ashtray why don't we make a deal to let me test this one, then people can't say my outcome was different then most because it was custom?
It will also take away the comments well you said nice things because he gave it to you.
4 the record I will pay for it so I could be just like any other customer.
Some of you have read my posts about another shops work, I won't play politics,

 

[TurboJamie]

Run the belt lower in the secondary is the last thing I would say, in fact I would never say something like that. I always say raise the belt to the point of where the track off the ground and engine idling the track can slowly turn. When there is an rpm fluctuation problem, you just eliminated one element that can contribute to the problem.
I even have a video of it here.

Your math doesn't add up.


Well I don't know what to say about all of this. Could the gross misalignment be an issue for the kit to work the best with one particular belt? yes or no?
Maybe my clutch kit would not run correctly in the sled because you did not have correct belt deflection and ran the belt lower in the secondary, I don't know. I think you heard or read me wrong.

With the 383 belt it runs low rpms for the first tank of fuel
Runs proper rpms for 2 tanks of fuel
Runs high rpms after that.
Grows up to 4 millimeters longer within 500 miles - And since the aramid fiber is stronger than steel, the fibers do not stretch, it is the rubber dislocating causing the outer diameter to be larger.
...well how do you calibrate with a belt like that?

Im grateful that I have a relationship with my clutch kit competitors that have the same observations and after messing around more during the season finding that the 166's coming across the shelf have been 1-7/16 wide and work now because they are near the proper width, or recalibrate with the 377 and a new primary spring.

Yeah, (insert sarcasm) Im sure misalignment had nothing to do with calibration not running correctly!

I have remedied customers who've removed the 383 and got to run with the 166 or 377 belt and if could not, you had the chance to send the kit back to me for a refund, to which Im the only one out here who'll do that.

According to the math there is 3000 miles on 383 belt and over 1100 miles on 803 belt = 4400 miles just on those belts not including all the other belts you say you've blown. So even if it was an average of 90 miles on a (1)166, (1)377, (1)383 then that would be another 270 miles taking to a total this season to just under 4700 miles on a 2 yr old sled that has 2000 miles.
You run 2 tracks on your sled totalling 3000 miles, is there any other tracks you ran that you never told anyone about that got the other 1400 miles?

Thanks for the cheers, sorry you have a chip on your shoulder with me.

This will be a good post to save in my favorites.

Joe you have a problem with your defence, and that is, if were only taking about one particular sled when someone owns more then one sled they can put a different amount of miles on either one. I'll dig the email up from work on monday where you told me to lower the belt in the secondary. Your kit = blow belts with correct aligment (maching mounts) Dunns kit with same alignment = miles of bliss and consistancy!

 

[portgrinder]

If all goes to plan, we will be dynoing my stocker 09 here some time soon. Play around with a few different ideas Neil and I have, and see where it goes. After that I will be doing Ralph's big bore. Go back to the same dyno and do it all over again. It will take awhile but should be some good results.

My 06 from ralph makes a stock 800 look like a 600

 

[byeatts]

I,m interested in what EGT,s differant setups are seeing,My 880 Trygstad is 1150 Mids and 1180 WOT, on very long pull @ 8000 ft.

 

[WatchThis!!!]

byeats, are you running full mod trygstad 880? or with single? has it been reliable?

 

[1Mike900]

I was wondering between all the set-ups that the 860 to 888 is the max. CC range of these engines? Is this the same as the 900 cats and Polaris that engine vibrations go up after 860 range? Or is it a design limitation on piston size for the balance of the established crankshaft throws within the original design? Are these new pistons balanced out to the original weight piston and wristpin designs? And with the larger bore/stroke ratio are these engines turning lower revs like the factory does between 800 and 1000cc,s Note: usually 800 cc = low 8000 rpm and 900/1000 cc = 7400 rpm? Is there a certain RPM that harmonics are to be avoided to lessen crankshaft failure for certain engine sizes? And is 2.15 ft. lbs of torque per engine cu. in. still a good basis to determine power output on a 2 stroke? Sorry for all the questions as I am trying to understand the design philosophy and limitations to any larger sizes that could be available!

Thanks
Mike

 

[Sako7STW]

I was wondering between all the set-ups that the 860 to 888 is the max. CC range of these engines? Is this the same as the 900 cats and Polaris that engine vibrations go up after 860 range? Or is it a design limitation on piston size for the balance of the established crankshaft throws within the original design? Are these new pistons balanced out to the original weight piston and wristpin designs? And with the larger bore/stroke ratio are these engines turning lower revs like the factory does between 800 and 1000cc,s Note: usually 800 cc = low 8000 rpm and 900/1000 cc = 7400 rpm? Is there a certain RPM that harmonics are to be avoided to lessen crankshaft failure for certain engine sizes? And is 2.15 ft. lbs of torque per engine cu. in. still a good basis to determine power output on a 2 stroke? Sorry for all the questions as I am trying to understand the design philosophy and limitations to any larger sizes that could be available!

Thanks
Mike

Wow a post that is actually good instead of babbling BS......

 

[fatguy1]

I was wondering between all the set-ups that the 860 to 888 is the max. CC range of these engines? Is this the same as the 900 cats and Polaris that engine vibrations go up after 860 range? Or is it a design limitation on piston size for the balance of the established crankshaft throws within the original design? Are these new pistons balanced out to the original weight piston and wristpin designs? And with the larger bore/stroke ratio are these engines turning lower revs like the factory does between 800 and 1000cc,s Note: usually 800 cc = low 8000 rpm and 900/1000 cc = 7400 rpm? Is there a certain RPM that harmonics are to be avoided to lessen crankshaft failure for certain engine sizes? And is 2.15 ft. lbs of torque per engine cu. in. still a good basis to determine power output on a 2 stroke? Sorry for all the questions as I am trying to understand the design philosophy and limitations to any larger sizes that could be available!

Thanks
Mike

After 880 the stock cylinder walls are very thin. I think crank shop is working on a mono block that would allow a larger bore. maybe 950+

 

[MARCUSO]

HOw are the lower cases with a larger bore?
I know the 800ho lower end didn't like anything over 860 or so, is the 800r lower cases better, volume wise and streength, for going larger, say to 1000?

 

[byeatts]

byeats, are you running full mod trygstad 880? or with single? has it been reliable?

Its a hybrid.Race crank which is lightened/ballanced, this also allows for additional air volume in the cases ,aggressive top end porting,never have had one det. however I ride at 7000 ft. and up,designed for single pipe{Aaen}for mt. riding.Motor is very strong. I did snap a crank ,Why?? who knows,Seems to be reliable, took awhile to get jetting dialed as it was the first build.

 

[trinitypowder]

Which Aaen pipe do you use?

 

[Original Tetonice]

Well if you have one at your shop that's being used as an ashtray why don't we make a deal to let me test this one, then people can't say my outcome was different then most because it was custom?
It will also take away the comments well you said nice things because he gave it to you.
4 the record I will pay for it so I could be just like any other customer.
Some of you have read my posts about another shops work, I won't play politics,

Dont let me stop you from your opinion tntm7....All im stating is the M7 head i purchased 2 seasons ago for our 2006 M7 did not work. If the newest product work thats great, it should you paid for it to worke CORRECT ?

OT

 

[tinman800]

Anyone with a SS 885 have there motor apart and see how much porting was done?. Mine has no porting other than alittle bit on the top of the exhaust port. Is this how its supposed to be? Thats alot to pay for an engine kit with no porting.

 

[portgrinder]

Anyone with a SS 885 have there motor apart and see how much porting was done?. Mine has no porting other than alittle bit on the top of the exhaust port. Is this how its supposed to be? Thats alot to pay for an engine kit with no porting.

Right.... Just because it doesnt look like a 13yr old has been in there with Dremmel and made things twice as big, does not mean there have been changes that will make hp. Quite the opposite actually. Porting that works in the mtns is quite different than what works at sea level.

What do you want for your 'unported bb' ? I'm looking to pick one up.

 

[sledheadd]

Anyone with a SS 885 have there motor apart and see how much porting was done?. Mine has no porting other than alittle bit on the top of the exhaust port. Is this how its supposed to be? Thats alot to pay for an engine kit with no porting.

If portgrinder don't buy it I might be interested.

 

[BIG JOHN]

Right.... Just because it doesnt look like a 13yr old has been in there with Dremmel and made things twice as big, does not mean there have been changes that will make hp. Quite the opposite actually. Porting that works in the mtns is quite different than what works at sea level.

What do you want for your 'unported bb' ? I'm looking to pick one up.

I have a 880 kit on the bench (from an unhappy customer)...ZERO/NONE/ZIPPO porting (raising the roof of exhaust between the guillitine and bore AFTER chrome process isnt porting) and chamfering the exhaust edge of the piston is???

IMHO- I trail port the STOCK 800R and get 5 hp...I will beg to differ with anyone, extensive porting (8 hours worth per SHR860R and its NOT done by a 13 year old with a dremmel) is required on a BB that makes good power, having the best head design helps too...BJ

BTW- I DOO have 2 port specs...MXZ and Summit...and soon to have "twin pipes only" specs...

 

[BIG JOHN]

Which Aaen pipe do you use?

He has the REV AAEN...the XP AAEN didnt match the power gains..the only pipe making power is the Dyno-Port...BJ