Turbo kit component thread

[M5-]

In another thread I posted saying I would start a turbo kit component thread, well here it is. The point here is to look at the individual components of all the main kits out there 1 by 1 and compare them. What I'd like to see is just the facts no "MY kit is better than your kit BS comments" so basically if you don't know don't post. Here are the rules

1. ANYBODY can post just make it helpfull whether it be facts or a question
2. If there are any stupid pointless posts Christopher blow them away.
3. Lets do say 1 part per week then move on not beat it to death
4. Lets limit this to the main manufactures that anybody can buy
5. When its done we won't be declaring a winner but you should be able to decide what kit is the best fit for you and why

So here is a rough outline.

First off what kits are we going to include? I say

1.Impulse
2.MCX
3.Powderlites
4. MPI
5.Alpine
6.Boondocker
7. Ulmer
8. Push

Any others?

Part 2 Components

1. Turbo charger the life blood
2 .Intercooler design
3. Fuel controller and supply
4. Plumbing
5. Exhaust side
6. Overall fit and finish


Am I missing anything?

M5

 

[philsummers21]

You could also talk about weight transfer, Might include that into fit and finish as well tho. talking about moving weight from the front of the sled to the rear.

 

[macsummit]

you need to add ulmer racing turbo

 

[smwizzz]

turbo

Cool idea. I don't know what you want to start with so I'm going to add a couple comments.

#1 Turbo... Garrett is my choice because it is readily available to everyone and parts are over the counter in most major centres.

#2 Intercoolers... I don't know much about the water to air but it seems they are being integrated these days and they sound like they are working Awesome!!! Guess snow can supply cold air via a liquid transfer better than cold air!!!

#3 Fuel controllers... I have a lot of experience with what does not work. I don't advise any piggy back controller these days. They are old technology and have a world of irritating problems that go along with them. Don't get me wrong I know guys who have made them work with larger injectors, fuel pumps and increased fuel pressures.

The modern technology comes in the form of add on injectors coupled with a stand alone CPU. This is a better system in my eyes. The stock CPU can manage the basic engine functions using all those sensors the factory installed to protect your engine and make it run properly. The stand alone reads TPS, boost pressure and O2 readings among with some features like boost charge temp etc depending on the system used, to add fuel at the right time and in the right quantity to make the engine work properly and maintain the safe zone.

I am presently using Boost It. I like it, it is easy to tune. Boondocker has a similar system. I have not run the Boondocker on a 4 stroke but they work well on the 2 strokers. The Prologger also has the ability to run add on injectors.

I won't get into the kits available due to the fact I have not run all of them. I have my opinions of some one of which I have posted here on the forum. If you wish to read it look it up. Due to the request of the owner of this thread I will not give anymore info.

This is my opinion, hope you got some useful info out of it.

 

[M5-]

Smwizzz

Thats basically what Im after but for this week I was planning on just talking about the differences in the turbos so I'll start it.

Basically all the kits out there use either the Garrett GT line or a Mitubishi turbo. The main differences bertween the two are first off the Garrett is a ball bearing turbo and the Mitsu are journal bearing turbos. Garrret has a good description in the link below. read it.:

http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbobygarrett/journal_bearings_vs_ball_bearings

Cooling, Now I could be way out to lunch here but all of the MCX sleds I've worked on use the Mitsu turbo but when MCX builds the kit they don't use the water cooling option on the housing. I'm sure the mitsu can be cooled but the MCX uses the entry for mounting the turbo. Most of the other kits I've seen out there cool the turbo with something other than oil ie water. That said it does make for a simpler install but brings up the question of turbo life. I know guys who have needed to redo the seals in MCX Mitsu turbos in fact I should probably do my Nytro, no biggy its a cheap job. You might need to look at it after say 5-8k miles.

If you read the Garrett site above you'll now know that the ball bearing turbo is a way better unit for response so chalk one up for Garrett.

Housings. Another bad thing about the Mitsu turbos used are the exhaust housings are tiny in comparrison to the Garretts. For example a 19T has an affective A/R right around .49 where a GT2860 is either .64 or .86. What this means is the Garretts have way more capacity to get rid of heat all be it at the expense of spool. This is why you won't see a front/mid mount kit with a Mitsu turbo, with a rear mount the exhaust cools enough by the time it gets to the turbo that its not that big of an issue. Remember turbos spin because of exhaust pressure ie heat not because of exhaust velocity a common misconception, so you want just the right amount of heat, the pressure needs to be balanced with the compresspr side ideally at 1 to 1 so 15 lbs of boost should have 15 lbs of exhaust pressure. This is where the kit design can make it for you or kill you, don't use too small of a turbo or too big of one either.

Internal/external waste gate and exhaust housings. Anybody who is into this level of turbo kit already knows this. The Impulse kits with the Tial housings and external wastegates are the mac daddy end of discussion. Anybody who is reading this probably isn't considering one of those although you probably should if you've got the $$$ and you want to make stupid big power.

Compressors: They all do the same job but some are beter than others. For example Mitubishi 15G vs Mitsu 16T they look basically the same right? Wrong, the 15G is the heavier older style wheel and is slower spooling and clips faster at the top end so basically a cheap turbo which is why they are cheap to buy brand new. Strike 1 against MPI if you ever plan on turning up the boost past 8 or so, IMO the 15G is a pretty crappy turbo. With a Garrett you can get any combo of compressor and exhaust housing to fit your needs you just have to be honest about what your goals are.

Garrett GT2554 385 CFM 2.0 bar
GT2860rs 529 cfm 2.0 bar
GT2871 661 cfm 2.0 bar
GT2876 705 cfm 2.0 bar

Mitsubishi
15G 6cm housing has a/r .41 428 cfm at 2.0 bar
16T 7cm housing .49 A/R 435 cfm at 2.0 bar
19T 7 cm housing .49 A/R 500 CFM at 2.0 bar

Summary: IMO the Garrett is a better turbo all around so why look at any kit using a Mitsu? Later.


Feel free to correct anything I have wrong here or add your 2 cents worth.

M5

 

[BOOSTIN-BAYOU]

im running a powderlites rear mount turbo learning more every day so my question is heat is your friend am i losing heat between the motor and the turbo via exhaust header to turbo which is exposed under tunnel or not enough to worry about more question when you talk about intercoolers i i think this thread is a great idea thanks

 

[M5-]

im running a powderlites rear mount turbo learning more every day so my question is heat is your friend am i losing heat between the motor and the turbo via exhaust header to turbo which is exposed under tunnel or not enough to worry about more question when you talk about intercoolers i i think this thread is a great idea thanks

In the purest sense yes you are losing heat, does it matter not really. I've known Dave and dealt with him for quite a few years, he's a very very smart guy and his kits are all designed and tuned to take into account all that using a bunch of different means so in answer to your question no don't sweat it on a Powderlites kit. You could insulate the pipes but I doubt you'd notice any real differnce. I'll explain more on the topic when we get to plumbing and exhaust.

M5

 

[paulharris]

So here is a rough outline.

First off what kits are we going to include? I say

1.Impulse
2.MCX
3.Powderlites
4. MPI
5.Alpine
6.Boondocker

Any others?


Am I missing anything?

M5

You forgot Push. If you are leaving it out on purpose i am not sure why because they work awesome. There are several hundred of them out there as it was sold by Yamaha for the first year.

 

[M5-]

Thats why I asked I just didn't think of them all.

M5

 

[scmurs]

I think this is a great idea for a thread. However, comments like you made below are what gets people's panties in a bunch.

Your opinion discounts each and every MCX owner on this forum and the choice that they made for turbo systems.

Summary: IMO the Garrett is a better turbo all around so why look at any kit using a Mitsu? Later.

M5

The turbine is only one factor/component in the choice of systems. Fuel control, fit & finish, vendor reputation, dealer support etc....

I'm not picking an argument, I just think that if this thread is meant to be educational, it should not be argumentative.

Scott

 

[Tuesday]

270 mcx kit is pretty hard to beat IMO.

16t or 19t if you want more boost. 16t spools up pretty quick with marginal lag. The charge tube has a heat exchanger in the tunnel. The original intercoolers are basic dont know if they have changed them much. PL makes a nice intercooler with BOV at the bottom. The mcx already runs the extra injectors and you can adjust the fuel map if you want with the datalogger just not on the fly like with the boost it system. The mcx has a good oil pump delivery system no crappy pull oil pump. Lastly theie fuel mapping is so close you dont have to mess with it much if at all and you can run on pump fuel. Dont be fooled by most has most maps are complete garage and regardless of what the dyno says if they dont preform who cares what the components are. Also have to ask yourself is it worth it to add a 2k fuel system and another 1k for a decent oil pump?

Maybe sylvan laker will chime in on specific components. I recall him mentioning if he was to do it all over he would pick specific components and just build his own.

Hard to beat fit, finish, reliability and performance.

I also like the rear mounts for removing underhood heat and weight off the front. The newer fuel maps and clutching make the bit of lag on the bottom make it barely noticable.

 

[Mountaintech]

I have been in the boosted Yammy world since the 03/04 season. I have finally gotten around to building what works best for me. When I designed it I wanted the BEST throttle response, a quality fast spooling ball bearing turbo, no oil return pump, best weight distribution (get rid of the OEM fuel tank that places way too much weight over the engine), fuel tank away from extreme heat, no obnoxious exhaust tone, a simple fuel system with no surge tank required, and minimal intake noise. It's still a work in progress but I'm very happy so far.

 

[BOOSTIN-BAYOU]

i sure hope this thread last i can already see people getting defensive this can be a very helpful thread to people with and without turbo

 

[scmurs]

i sure hope this thread last i can already see people getting defensive this can be a very helpful thread to people with and without turbo

I'll disagree with you from my standpoint that people are being defensive.

M5 knows his chit and I value his knowledge. I am not being defensive, I do not own an MCX kit and I would like to hear what he has to say if it can be done so in a non-argumentative manner.

Peter ( Roest ) is not being defensive. He built his own kit.

Tuesday ( who owns an MCX kit ) was not being defensive, he was just simply pointing out the advantages that he sees with the kit that he owns.

This thread will be beneficial if it can be kept civil, which it can. Don't read too much in to what other people write, it is just a forum ( aka discussion )

I realize this post did absolutely nothing to add to the discussion about turbo components, so, if you will, please carry on

 

[Iceman56]

I'll comment on Impulse since that is all that I have owned

The two major things that stand out to me are

1. Standalone ECU... perfect spot on tuning that is always correcting itself for the most performence and efficiency. No adjusting boxes... Run 17psi on pump fuel

2. Super short respnsive header and intake plumbing, for unmatched spool up.

Those two things are really what set it apart from other kits IMO... Other good features are

Gerrett Turbo.... Paul is now offering the GTX as well

Big high flow intercooler

750cc injectors no need for extra injectors, wiring, ect... cleaner under hood

bigger fuel tank that puts weight to the rear of sled

Intake is up where snow doesn't cover it icing it over and plugging it... Some may not like the noise of it there

Those are some the things that I like about the Impulse kit

 

[Mountaintech]

I wasn't being defensive at all. There is more than one way to skin a cat. This thread is a great idea. I think it would work best though if each topic had its own thread. It would keep everything separate and more on topic.

 

[Thistledoo]

I am a MCX guy as well and have logged alot of kms on MCX equiped nytros

I think the fit and finish on the MCX kit is very good, just because they have been at it a long time. I havent heard of a mit turbo ever going down other than from ice going into the blades. We have had some issues with black secondary injectors which caused me some and others alot of griefbut has been rectifed as a vendor issue.

Over all a guy cant go wrong with a 240MCX kit and using the stock fuel system and running 91 pump all day long.

M5 rides a MCX nytro so not sure why he said that about the mit turbo??
Paul have you had issues there??

 

[Tuesday]

How much boost are you planning or hoping to run? Plan to do any engine work?

As mentioned by others I was just pointing out some of the pros that are on an mcx. If you can incorporate those pros to your system you are way ahead of the game. There are a lot of things I dont like on other systems/set ups.

GL

 

[Iceman56]

How much boost are you planning or hoping to run? Plan to do any engine work?

As mentioned by others I was just pointing out some of the pros that are on an mcx. If you can all those pros to your system you are way ahead of the game. There are a lot of things I dont like on other systems/set ups.

GL

X2 I was also just pointing out (IMO) the Pros of the Impulse, nothing else...

Tuesday you wouldn't hurt my feelings if you pointed out what you don't like about other kits... Infact I think you should, pointing out the cons can be just as informative as the pros as long as we can all act like adults and discuss it and not get butt hurt about it... In the end it's just everyones opininon anyways and everyone is just gonna have to form there own opinion.

 

[M5-]

Relax boys. You obviously misunderstood my comment compeletly, honestly. When I said "Later" I wasn't sayin over and out Later I meant I'll tell you later why its a valid choice, one thing at a time stay on point. Read the rules I was the first one to say no "My dads sled can beat your dads sled BS" so you won't hear that out of me. If I write something confusing or unclear that can be interpretted 2 ways take it as the objective way. Yes I have an MCX Nytro and its been the most reliable sled I've ever owned I'm not dissing MCX so chill out.

SOOOO right now we are only talking about the turbo charger, its not the kit its just the turbo lets save the what I like about this kit or that kit till we've examined every component individually then we can objectively talk about any kit out there. Once everybody is up to speed on the turbo we'll move on to whatever is next on the list, I can' remember. Once all the turbocharger ??s are answered we'll move on. Agreed? Fawk me this is like herding cats.LOL

M5