TRA question..

[Heavysledz]

I think the same question is posted on the Arctic Cat thread as well.

OT

Yea it's on the Cat forum because you put it there.....couldn't win the debate on the Doo forum so you had to go and ask the cat fella's.....pretty desperate measures on your part.

 

[Mountain Doo-OLD]

John-
What sparked all of this AGAIN??

We all know what happened years ago- with the ramps being able to.......


Jack Stand Tuning Part #2 ... ?????
I cannot wait for that review

 

[maluchm]

Oooops maybe I was wrong.....BJ's knowledge of the TRA is still stuck in reTArD.

OT

Stuck meaning Not moving? It looks like you were trying to capitalize the letters T,R & A in the word retard but you couldn't manage to get that one right either huh?

 

[quickdraw]

Well aren't you speccccccccial.

 

[maluchm]

Short bus ridin.... chewing on the green duct tape, window lickin special

 

[Original Tetonice]

Since BJ and others think the ramps do not move than answer this question.....When your clickers are on settings #4 and you want to click down to #2 how does your ramp get from #4 to #2 setting ?....Since according to BJ's long standing theory that the ramps do not move.

OT

 

[Heavysledz]

Since BJ and others think the ramps do not move than answer this question.....When your clickers are on settings #4 and you want to click down to #2 how does your ramp get from #4 to #2 setting ?....Since according to BJ's long standing theory that the ramps do not move.

OT

So that would be like saying you got shot in the head and was laying on the side of the road dead and lifeless. Most people would assume you are not moving.....

Now say somebody comes by and sees you laying on the ground dead and roll you over to get your wallet and then leave....

Some other people come by and your still laying their motionless. One of them asks "is he moving" and the other one would answer A or B

A. Yes, he's moving because someone rolled him and took his wallet (moving clickers from #4 to #2 )

B. No, he's not moving because he is dead and in the same position as he has been in since he was rolled.

Survey says.........

 

[Original Tetonice]

So that would be like saying you got shot in the head and was laying on the side of the road dead and lifeless. Most people would assume you are not moving.....

Now say somebody comes by and sees you laying on the ground dead and roll you over to get your wallet and then leave....

Some other people come by and your still laying their motionless. One of them asks "is he moving" and the other one would answer A or B

A. Yes, he's moving because someone rolled him and took his wallet (moving clickers from #4 to #2 )

B. No, he's not moving because he is dead and in the same position as he has been in since he was rolled.

Survey says.........

Only 1 problem with your theory......The TRA is alive, once the motor is started and the primary begins to spin the centrifical force MOVES the ramps from #4 down to #2


OT

 

[SilverGriz]

Well you guys have successfully confused the crap out of me. I guess I will just continue to ride and leave the technical jargon and tuning to you guys.

 

[Mountain Doo-OLD]

Now That is quite a comparison. of moving and not moving...ROTFLMAO

 

[baD-MAX]

If the TRA is "ALIVE" How does it MOVE the ramp back up to #4 if you don't ADJUST it with the clicker bolt? I could remove the clutch, disassemble it and adjust the ramp to #2 from # 4 reassemble, reinstall and when I start the sled, guess what? No 'movement'.

Now where are the jello nails? LOL

 

[Grover]

If the TRA is "ALIVE" How does it MOVE the ramp back up to #4 if you don't ADJUST it with the clicker bolt? I could remove the clutch, disassemble it and adjust the ramp to #2 from # 4 reassemble, reinstall and when I start the sled, guess what? No 'movement'.

Now where are the jello nails? LOL

BJ I know for one has them in stock.....................

Object in motion will continue in motion...............

TRA ramp "moves" as a "fixed\stationary" object...............

That ought to keep OT entertained!


J E L L O



-Grover

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

OT does actually make some sense, when clickering down... the little offset bolt that is the clicker adjuster drops away, but the ramp is very stuck in place and doesnt move when you adjust it...... it takes a little force, thats why when you clicker up, or go past higher numbers its harder, as the offset bolt moves the ramp out some.....

OT i dont get why this is such a big deal, its basically it moves for 1/2 a second if you clicker change down, and like said above, could be done with no movement with clutch disasembly.

keep fishing buddy

 

[Heavysledz]

Only 1 problem with your theory......The TRA is alive, once the motor is started and the primary begins to spin the centrifical force MOVES the ramps from #4 down to #2


OT

Hopeless...

So I guess we can consider your house moveable since you still have the wheels on it and there is some potential that it may move at some point in time????

 

[baD-MAX]

Hopeless...

So I guess we can consider your house moveable since you still have the wheels on it and there is some potential that it may move at some point in time????

ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!

You can take OT out of the trailerpark, but you can't take the trailerpark out of OT!!!

 

[winter brew]

Fixed vs. Movable Roller Designs

The centri***al force produced by the flyweight or arm is the common link between the different CVT clutch designs. If we can understand how clutch design changes the amount of force applied to the belt, we may be able to increase the resolution for improved backshifting and still get an aggressive upshift. The analysis will also show why some brands accelerate harder than others at certain points on the shift curve.

Today, three of the four major manufacturers have engineered their primary clutches to use the fixed roller design. The fixed roller designs include the Polaris P-85, Yamaha YXR, Arctic Cat 9 tower & Comet primary clutches. These designs incorporate the same method of using centri***al force produced by three (or four) pivoting flyweights pushing against fixed rollers located in the spider. These flyweights are located in the movable sheave, and as engine RPM increases so does the amount of centri***al force being generated by the flyweights. This force eventually ends up at the belt in the form of belt squeezing and upshift force.

Ski-Doo opted for a different approach of providing belt squeezing and upshift force through the design of their TRA primary clutch. Top racer and those knowledgeable about CVT clutch tuning have long regarded the TRA as the best clutch for short run drag racing situations; but why? The TRA uses three arms to produce centri***al force. Similar to the fixed roller design, centri***al force of the three arms increases as the clutch rotates around the centerline of the crankshaft and engine RPM increases. The difference between the TRA clutch and others is that the roller, which is fixed in the other designs, is now attached to the end of the arm and the roller ramp is fixed in the spider/cover. The TRA design is referred to as a movable roller design. The two different concepts are shown in figure #1.





At a glance it appears that we have all the same parts in the fixed and movable roller design. Many people have told me that the parts for the fixed and movable roller clutch have simply been rearranged and all four primary clutches work the same. I have never found this to be true in field testing. If I put a P-85 Polaris primary clutch on a Ski-Doo, the machine feels completely different even though the shift RPM remains the same. Is it in the tuning components or is it the design that makes the two styles of clutches feel so different on the same machine? By doing some reverse engineering maybe we can determine if the fixed and movable roller designs perform differently during operation giving the machine a different feel.

 

[maluchm]

Only 1 problem with your theory......The TRA is alive, once the motor is started and the primary begins to spin the centrifical force MOVES the ramps from #4 down to #2


OT

Great, now someone is going to try to adjust the clicker setting while the motor is running.

 

[Heavysledz]

Fixed vs. Movable Roller Designs

The centri***al force produced by the flyweight or arm is the common link between the different CVT clutch designs. If we can understand how clutch design changes the amount of force applied to the belt, we may be able to increase the resolution for improved backshifting and still get an aggressive upshift. The analysis will also show why some brands accelerate harder than others at certain points on the shift curve.

Today, three of the four major manufacturers have engineered their primary clutches to use the fixed roller design. The fixed roller designs include the Polaris P-85, Yamaha YXR, Arctic Cat 9 tower & Comet primary clutches. These designs incorporate the same method of using centri***al force produced by three (or four) pivoting flyweights pushing against fixed rollers located in the spider. These flyweights are located in the movable sheave, and as engine RPM increases so does the amount of centri***al force being generated by the flyweights. This force eventually ends up at the belt in the form of belt squeezing and upshift force.

Ski-Doo opted for a different approach of providing belt squeezing and upshift force through the design of their TRA primary clutch. Top racer and those knowledgeable about CVT clutch tuning have long regarded the TRA as the best clutch for short run drag racing situations; but why? The TRA uses three arms to produce centri***al force. Similar to the fixed roller design, centri***al force of the three arms increases as the clutch rotates around the centerline of the crankshaft and engine RPM increases. The difference between the TRA clutch and others is that the roller, which is fixed in the other designs, is now attached to the end of the arm and the roller ramp is fixed in the spider/cover. The TRA design is referred to as a movable roller design. The two different concepts are shown in figure #1.





At a glance it appears that we have all the same parts in the fixed and movable roller design. Many people have told me that the parts for the fixed and movable roller clutch have simply been rearranged and all four primary clutches work the same. I have never found this to be true in field testing. If I put a P-85 Polaris primary clutch on a Ski-Doo, the machine feels completely different even though the shift RPM remains the same. Is it in the tuning components or is it the design that makes the two styles of clutches feel so different on the same machine? By doing some reverse engineering maybe we can determine if the fixed and movable roller designs perform differently during operation giving the machine a different feel.

Touché

 

[maluchm]

Fixed vs. Movable Roller Designs

The centri***al force produced by the flyweight or arm is the common link between the different CVT clutch designs. If we can understand how clutch design changes the amount of force applied to the belt, we may be able to increase the resolution for improved backshifting and still get an aggressive upshift. The analysis will also show why some brands accelerate harder than others at certain points on the shift curve.

Today, three of the four major manufacturers have engineered their primary clutches to use the fixed roller design. The fixed roller designs include the Polaris P-85, Yamaha YXR, Arctic Cat 9 tower & Comet primary clutches. These designs incorporate the same method of using centri***al force produced by three (or four) pivoting flyweights pushing against fixed rollers located in the spider. These flyweights are located in the movable sheave, and as engine RPM increases so does the amount of centri***al force being generated by the flyweights. This force eventually ends up at the belt in the form of belt squeezing and upshift force.

Ski-Doo opted for a different approach of providing belt squeezing and upshift force through the design of their TRA primary clutch. Top racer and those knowledgeable about CVT clutch tuning have long regarded the TRA as the best clutch for short run drag racing situations; but why? The TRA uses three arms to produce centri***al force. Similar to the fixed roller design, centri***al force of the three arms increases as the clutch rotates around the centerline of the crankshaft and engine RPM increases. The difference between the TRA clutch and others is that the roller, which is fixed in the other designs, is now attached to the end of the arm and the roller ramp is fixed in the spider/cover. The TRA design is referred to as a movable roller design. The two different concepts are shown in figure #1.





At a glance it appears that we have all the same parts in the fixed and movable roller design. Many people have told me that the parts for the fixed and movable roller clutch have simply been rearranged and all four primary clutches work the same. I have never found this to be true in field testing. If I put a P-85 Polaris primary clutch on a Ski-Doo, the machine feels completely different even though the shift RPM remains the same. Is it in the tuning components or is it the design that makes the two styles of clutches feel so different on the same machine? By doing some reverse engineering maybe we can determine if the fixed and movable roller designs perform differently during operation giving the machine a different feel.

Thanks to winter brew and Olav Aaen

 

[Original Tetonice]

Winter Brew good job..... you should know by now that some SW folks are still playing with Jello and can not absorbe all the good info. After all some folk have been stuck in a rut on this subject for 7 years now especially the author of the subject...... Da let me see Doo i use hot water or cold water when i mix Da jello ? Da let me see when Da jello chills is Da jello fixed to Da bowl of does it Jiggle constituting movement.



OT