Swing and a Miss - GOP allows Obama care to thrive

[Mafesto]

I'll take the bait. Government is far more efficient at providing military, police, fire, ambulance, postal delivery.

Military,
I'll give you that one, simply because there's so many factors, angles, priorities etc that it could be debated for infinity and still no concensus.

Police,
Why do we hire private investigators when the police cannot help due to their hands being tied through protocol?
What about private security?
Debatable as well, but not because of the government run system, but the policemen who took the job for no reason beyond wanting to help people.

Fire,
I believe a private fire dept would be very competitive for equal or lower budget.

Ambulance,
Many communities have been forced to go to privately owned ambulance services decades ago.

Postal service,
Several for profit parcel companies have thrived because the USPS is such an inefficient abortion of a system.

I stand by my generalization that anything the government can do, the private sector can do much more efficiently.

 

[black z]

Arguing the government is more efficient than the private sector? WOW. If a private company had 75% of our government's military budget it would be far superior, not even a question (unless intelligence acquisition was limited) except for maybe DARPA. (but we will never know how much funding actually goes there) You obviously have never done any sort of research into our military contracts, at all. The definition of waste and price gouging.

 

[chevota84]

I just love the concept of some how the cost healthcare should stay constant or decrease when everything else is constantly increasing. And somehow its all a black man's fault. We can use Martin Shkreli as an example of how successful the private sector would handle healthcare.

You mean the guy that the government gave a monopoly to? If the government hadn't been so busy cutting out the competition he wouldn't have been able to Jack the price up.

Maybe we are the only developed country without socialized medicine but, we also lead the world in medical innovation. Might be a coincidence but I doubt it.

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[jerrydecoy]

Having been in both the us (pre 2008) and Canadian health care systems I can say without a doubt that I would NEVER give up the Canadian program for the mess you have down there now or before I moved north. If you are a millionaire the us probably works great...

Buddy of mine shredded his knee this year, full surgery within 3 days, ZERO cost. I did the same in the states in '04 with good coverage, still cost me $10k. I've never met anyone up here who would prefer the us program, not even close. Could it be better? Yes. But it's a lot better than that mess.

You might give it up when you have a non emergency health condition that turns into a life threatening condition because you're case kept getting moved to the back of the line because it wasn't an emergency! I know plenty of folks up north that have or know someone who has experienced that sort of situation!!! Plenty of them still come here for testing, mri's etc... and pay out of pocket because the wait times up north can be horrible!

 

[NorthMNSledder]

Having been in both the us (pre 2008) and Canadian health care systems I can say without a doubt that I would NEVER give up the Canadian program for the mess you have down there now or before I moved north. If you are a millionaire the us probably works great...

Buddy of mine shredded his knee this year, full surgery within 3 days, ZERO cost. I did the same in the states in '04 with good coverage, still cost me $10k. I've never met anyone up here who would prefer the us program, not even close. Could it be better? Yes. But it's a lot better than that mess.

Since I'm not that familiar with your system north of the border and how it works. On average what percentage are you paying in taxes on your overall income? Is it much higher to offset this cost?

 

[James T Kirk]

You might give it up when you have a non emergency health condition that turns into a life threatening condition because you're case kept getting moved to the back of the line because it wasn't an emergency! I know plenty of folks up north that have or know someone who has experienced that sort of situation!!! Plenty of them still come here for testing, mri's etc... and pay out of pocket because the wait times up north can be horrible!

Actually people with non life threatening issues get bumped so that people with life threatening issues get treated right away. I'd take that any day over getting sub par care because I couldn't afford it or had no insurance.

 

[James T Kirk]

Since I'm not that familiar with your system north of the border and how it works. On average what percentage are you paying in taxes on your overall income? Is it much higher to offset this cost?

my tax rate in Canada is actually quite similar to what I paid in the states.

 

[jerrydecoy]

Actually people with non life threatening issues get bumped so that people with life threatening issues get treated right away. I'd take that any day over getting sub par care because I couldn't afford it or had no insurance.

I get what your saying about why people get bumped but your missing my point... sometimes the people getting bumped do have a serious health issue that is in the early stages and it gets overlooked because it's not life threatening at the moment! That's a major downside to the Canadian system and why so many will go south for treatment! As far as the sub par care comment. I would dare to say that sub par care in the U.S. as far as facilities and physicians would still be better then what's available to the north. I can't recall ever hearing of anyone going to Canada for treatment because they thought it was better care!!!

 

[James T Kirk]

I get what your saying about why people get bumped but your missing my point... sometimes the people getting bumped do have a serious health issue that is in the early stages and it gets overlooked because it's not life threatening at the moment! That's a major downside to the Canadian system and why so many will go south for treatment! As far as the sub par care comment. I would dare to say that sub par care in the U.S. as far as facilities and physicians would still be better then what's available to the north. I can't recall ever hearing of anyone going to Canada for treatment because they thought it was better care!!!

I'd be willing to bet that there are far more health problems missed or worsened by people not going to the doctor for a "minor" problem because they don't want to pay out of pocket then there are because of people getting bumped. When I first moved north I thought everyone was a hypochondriac because they always went to the doctor, then I realized you could easily go for a minor question or what seemed minor because it was FREE. No co-pay, no deductible etc.

 

[jerrydecoy]

I'd be willing to bet that there are far more health problems missed or worsened by people not going to the doctor for a "minor" problem because they don't want to pay out of pocket then there are because of people getting bumped. When I first moved north I thought everyone was a hypochondriac because they always went to the doctor, then I realized you could easily go for a minor question or what seemed minor because it was FREE. No co-pay, no deductible etc.

I didnt realize your health care was free???? Lmao... ya ok!!! You may not pay outta pocket but you and I both know it's not free!

 

[chevota84]

Nothing is free, I hate that word.

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[jerrydecoy]

Nothing is free, I hate that word.

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Exactly!!! I could be off a lil' on my numbers but an average family of four is paying about 11,000 a year in Canada. They are heavily taxed for the healthcare plus more then half of them pay for supplemental insurance to cover dental and drug coverage or it's provided by an employer. Health care up there may be free at the point of sale but your still paying and it's not cheap. Canadians may like it but I don't want the government involved in my health care!!!

 

[James T Kirk]

Exactly!!! I could be off a lil' on my numbers but an average family of four is paying about 11,000 a year in Canada. They are heavily taxed for the healthcare plus more then half of them pay for supplemental insurance to cover dental and drug coverage or it's provided by an employer. Health care up there may be free at the point of sale but your still paying and it's not cheap. Canadians may like it but I don't want the government involved in my health care!!!

So you like paying hundreds of dollars a month in coverage for a plan with a $5000 deductible and then paying out of pocket when you have a $4500 doctor visit? And then your insurance still wants co-payment if it goes over?

Not sure where you come up with $11k...

You're right, nothing's free, but once you have paid for coverage you shouldn't have to pay again for what you are buying coverage for in the first place.

The rest of the civilized world seems to have it figured out...

 

[chevota84]

So you like paying hundreds of dollars a month in coverage for a plan with a $5000 deductible and then paying out of pocket when you have a $4500 doctor visit? And then your insurance still wants co-payment if it goes over?

Not sure where you come up with $11k...

You're right, nothing's free, but once you have paid for coverage you shouldn't have to pay again for what you are buying coverage for in the first place.

The rest of the civilized world seems to have it figured out...

If we spent less time letting the hippies run our country and actually sold oil like most of the other "civilized" countries we could afford it, right now we can't. None of the other countries that have a workable socialist system have anywhere close to the socio-economic diversity that we have and none of them have anywhere close to the debt we have. A good portion of these countries are having their "free" healthcare sponsored by U.S. tax dollars because they can't sustain on their own.

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[jerrydecoy]

So you like paying hundreds of dollars a month in coverage for a plan with a $5000 deductible and then paying out of pocket when you have a $4500 doctor visit? And then your insurance still wants co-payment if it goes over?

Not sure where you come up with $11k...

You're right, nothing's free, but once you have paid for coverage you shouldn't have to pay again for what you are buying coverage for in the first place.

The rest of the civilized world seems to have it figured out...

11k is based on a family of 4 with earnings at 120k. I looked it up to make sure I wasn't way off base and that was from 2015. I don't think the rest of the civilized world has it figured out and to be quite honest with you if I had a life threatening illness I would much rather be in the states then Canada when it comes to health care!
Our biggest problem is too many lazy f$cks!!! They're the only ones receiving affordable health care! The rest of us are paying for it!
Somewhere along the way people decided they are entitled to have all these things while they sit on their can!!! The folks with low cost insurance in the states were the same ones that never paid before. Same song... same dance! I think everyone is in agreement that we needed healthcare reform but not this! The money is not there to fund it! Again I say... politicians have no business running healthcare! They've ran this country in the ground and I'm not interested in them doing the same with regards to my health! If it works for you... great! I don't live in Canada.
We pay 700 a month for medical, dental and vision with a 2000 deductible. 20 copay for office visits . How much do you pay???

 

[jerrydecoy]

So you like paying hundreds of dollars a month in coverage for a plan with a $5000 deductible and then paying out of pocket when you have a $4500 doctor visit? And then your insurance still wants co-payment if it goes over?

Not sure where you come up with $11k...

You're right, nothing's free, but once you have paid for coverage you shouldn't have to pay again for what you are buying coverage for in the first place.

The rest of the civilized world seems to have it figured out...

11k is based on a family of 4 with earnings at 120k. I looked it up to make sure I wasn't way off base and that was from 2015. I don't think the rest of the civilized world has it figured out and to be quite honest with you if I had a life threatening illness I would much rather be in the states then Canada when it comes to healthcare!
Our biggest problem is too many lazy f$cks!!! They're the only ones receiving affordable health care! The rest of us are paying for it!
Somewhere along the way people decided they are entitled to have all these things while they sit on their can!!! The folks with low cost insurance in the states were the same ones that never paid before. Same song... same dance! I think everyone is in agreement that we needed healthcare reform but not this! The money is not there to fund it! Again I say... politicians have no business running healthcare! They've ran this country in the ground and I'm not interested in them doing the same with regards to my health! If it works for you... great! I don't live in Canada.
I'm confused cuz in an earlier post you said your doctors visit was free but now you say nothing is free??? A deductible or limit of coverage is standard with every other form of insurance. Why would healthcare not be the same. We all have a similar situation with auto and homeowners ins. If a person has the money they can have the best of everything. That's life! I don't expect to have the same luxuries that a person making 20 mil a year has. I had an uncle who survived 5 years longer then the average lung cancer patient cuz he had the money to seek out the best care he could find! He worked hard his entire life and always had the best of everything.... including his healthcare. Life's not always fair and I don't need the government trying to make it fair. I can do that on my own!
We pay 700 a month for medical, dental and vision with a 2000 deductible. 20 copay for office visits . How much do you pay???

 

[Idcatman3]

Your $700 per month, plus $2k deductible, works out to nearly the $11k you claim he pays.
You also pay taxes that go to healthcare on top of that, but you don't get any healthcare for it.
Canada, and most countries with socialised healthcare, have better average outcomes than we do. Our government pays it more money on healthcare than any other, and the majority of citizens get no healthcare from it.

That sounds like a good system to you?

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[jerrydecoy]

Your $700 per month, plus $2k deductible, works out to nearly the $11k you claim he pays.
You also pay taxes that go to healthcare on top of that, but you don't get any healthcare for it.
Canada, and most countries with socialised healthcare, have better average outcomes than we do. Our government pays it more money on healthcare than any other, and the majority of citizens get no healthcare from it.

That sounds like a good system to you?

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I never said my healthcare was cheap or doesnt need some reform. I called him out when he said his was free! I guess I don't see the point of your post other then I know you and I have had political conversations before on this forum(at least I'm pretty sure we have) and I'm 99% positive you were or are a Hillary supporter which would make sense why you would jump on the bandwagon!

 

[Mafesto]

At this point I am convinced that if Trump praised Our Savior on Easter Sunday, the left would criticize him for that.
You liberals have lost your grip on reality.

 

[Idcatman3]

At this point I am convinced that if Trump praised Our Savior on Easter Sunday, the left would criticize him for that.
You liberals have lost your grip on reality.

https://youtu.be/iTACH1eVIaA

Yeah, liberals are the only crazy ones.

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