Swing and a Miss - GOP allows Obama care to thrive

[Mafesto]

I have way more to comment than I have initiative to type.
But, nobody's wrong. Everyone's opinion is valid. And here's mine...
I personally think that the government has no business being in the healthcare industry. There is nothing that the government can do more efficiently than the private sector.
Are you paying more now than before Osamacare? Of course you are. The opposite of what we were promised, isn't it.

 

[Idcatman3]

I have way more to comment than I have initiative to type.
But, nobody's wrong. Everyone's opinion is valid. And here's mine...
I personally think that the government has no business being in the healthcare industry. There is nothing that the government can do more efficiently than the private sector.
Are you paying more now than before Osamacare? Of course you are. The opposite of what we were promised, isn't it.

Costs were rising every year before the ACA. They continued to rise after. However, on average, they have risen slightly slower than they were.

There ARE some things government does better than the private sector. Defense, roads, police...etc. The healthcare industry, if profit driven, has all the wrong motives. That DOES promote "treat, not cure" and has no incentive for people to actually be healthy.

 

[Mafesto]

Costs were rising every year before the ACA. They continued to rise after. However, on average, they have risen slightly slower than they were.

As someone who actually pays for my own insurance I strongly disagree.

Don't get me wrong, the system was far from perfect, and there were areas where improvements could be implemented.

But there is simply no way you can add tens of thousands of paper pushing bureaucrats and expect a higher rate of efficiency. It is irrational to believe that..

 

[Idcatman3]

As someone who actually pays for my own insurance I strongly disagree.

Don't get me wrong, the system was far from perfect, and there were areas where improvements could be implemented.

But there is simply no way you can add tens of thousands of paper pushing bureaucrats and expect a higher rate of efficiency. It is irrational to believe that..

It may well be true for you, these are averages after all. But insurance premiums increased 63% from 2001 to 2006, 31% from 2006 to 2011, and 20% from 2011 to 2016.

http://kff.org/health-costs/press-r...lans-with-savings-option-over-past-two-years/

 

[bholmlate]

I just love the concept of some how the cost healthcare should stay constant or decrease when everything else is constantly increasing. And somehow its all a black man's fault. We can use Martin Shkreli as an example of how successful the private sector would handle healthcare.

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

We can use Martin Shkreli as an example of how successful the private sector would handle healthcare.

And people wonder why some of us can be upposed to a private sector driven insurance/heathcare system.

Sickly customers are good customers, like someone mentioned above, "treat not cure". Curing is bad for business.

Our system isn't broken, it works exactly how it was designed. Insurance companies/ big pharma write the rules and pay legislators to make it so. Profits go up, just like it was designed.

 

[black z]

It may well be true for you, these are averages after all. But insurance premiums increased 63% from 2001 to 2006, 31% from 2006 to 2011, and 20% from 2011 to 2016.

http://kff.org/health-costs/press-r...lans-with-savings-option-over-past-two-years/

Key here is workplace health plans. I am self employed and buy my own insurance. Pre obamacare I was 180 per month, I am at 550 per month with a higher deductible now, I'm a perfectly healthy 32 year old that hasn't been to the dr in over 2 years, and doesn't take any prescriptions.

 

[Idcatman3]

Key here is workplace health plans. I am self employed and buy my own insurance. Pre obamacare I was 180 per month, I am at 550 per month with a higher deductible now, I'm a perfectly healthy 32 year old that hasn't been to the dr in over 2 years, and doesn't take any prescriptions.

You get any subsidy?
I wasn't able to quickly find "no subsidy" numbers, but looks like the average silver plan in most places for a 40 year old, non smoker making 30k is right around $200 for 2017.
I believe there are supposed to be max % of income numbers in the mix as well.

I don't know personally, and like I said, these are all averages. The individual situations can vary wildly.

http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-...able-care-acts-health-insurance-marketplaces/

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

[Idcatman3]

Also, by no means am I saying the situation is great. It sucks. But I am of the opinion it would suck worse without the ACA, or a better replacement. It wasn't better before.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

[Mafesto]

It wasn't better before.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

I have to disagree.
I paid far less with lower deductible.

 

[Idcatman3]

I have to disagree.
I paid far less with lower deductible.

You're missing the point.
The trajectory things were on, you'd be worse off than you are.

Yes, costs have gone up since 2008. But they were going up before that too.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

[black z]

You get any subsidy?
I wasn't able to quickly find "no subsidy" numbers, but looks like the average silver plan in most places for a 40 year old, non smoker making 30k is right around $200 for 2017.
I believe there are supposed to be max % of income numbers in the mix as well.

I don't know personally, and like I said, these are all averages. The individual situations can vary wildly.

http://kff.org/health-reform/issue-...able-care-acts-health-insurance-marketplaces/

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

No I don't get a subsidy. I never have since i've been self employed.

 

[Idcatman3]

Then you make a lot more money than most people on the individual market. Sucks for you.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

[Mafesto]

You're missing the point.
The trajectory things were on, you'd be worse off than you are.

Yes, costs have gone up since 2008. But they were going up before that too.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

No, I'm not missing your point at all.
I just totally disagree with your version of the story.

 

[Idcatman3]

No, I'm not missing your point at all.
I just totally disagree with your version of the story.

Handily, one of us has presented evidence, while another has presented a single anecdote.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

 

[Mafesto]

Handily, one of us has presented evidence, while another has presented a single anecdote.

Sent from my VS987 using Tapatalk

I didn't realize I was supposed to gather data that would prop up my experience.
You don't get it, I don't care if I lose a keyboard pissing match with someone I don't even know.
I have several friends that run businesses, and there are none of them that feel aca was an improvement in the health care arena.

For your scenario, perhaps it has helped. As I stated earlier, we are all correct when we decide which factors determine right from wrong.

 

[milehighassassin]

I have way more to comment than I have initiative to type.
But, nobody's wrong. Everyone's opinion is valid. And here's mine...
I personally think that the government has no business being in the healthcare industry. There is nothing that the government can do more efficiently than the private sector.
Are you paying more now than before Osamacare? Of course you are. The opposite of what we were promised, isn't it.

I'll take the bait. Government is far more efficient at providing military, police, fire, ambulance, postal delivery. That's just to name a couple. I get what you're saying. A private payer system would still have private doctors. The insurance or payment would be handled through the government. We are seriously about the only first class society that does not have healthcare provided by the government. WHY?

 

[black z]

Pharmaceutical lobbies. Our healthcare system is based on treating conditions, not curing them. Why in the world do we allow pharmaceutical companies to advertise prescription drugs on TV? It's not like someone is going to walk into their doctor's office and recommend themselves a prescription based off of a commercial they saw. It is pure insanity, follow the money.

 

[BLITZKRIEG]

We are seriously about the only first class society that does not have healthcare provided by the government. WHY?

Why dont you do some homework and ask our neighbors to the north how its working out for them. Apart from paying outrageous taxes they still have to pay out of pocket expenses for their treatment and the waiting time is years for non life threatning surgeries(shoulder, knee, hip, etc). I was in Algadones Mexico last month, dental clinics on every block, met several Canadians getting their dental work done there. But why? The wait, the out of pocket cost, must be the great health care provided by their gov.

 

[James T Kirk]

Why dont you do some homework and ask our neighbors to the north how its working out for them. Apart from paying outrageous taxes they still have to pay out of pocket expenses for their treatment and the waiting time is years for non life threatning surgeries(shoulder, knee, hip, etc). I was in Algadones Mexico last month, dental clinics on every block, met several Canadians getting their dental work done there. But why? The wait, the out of pocket cost, must be the great health care provided by their gov.

Having been in both the us (pre 2008) and Canadian health care systems I can say without a doubt that I would NEVER give up the Canadian program for the mess you have down there now or before I moved north. If you are a millionaire the us probably works great...

Buddy of mine shredded his knee this year, full surgery within 3 days, ZERO cost. I did the same in the states in '04 with good coverage, still cost me $10k. I've never met anyone up here who would prefer the us program, not even close. Could it be better? Yes. But it's a lot better than that mess.