its the stoutner map, I just saved it to the location my Auto tune dialed in...
>>>Official Power Commander V Thread<<< Polaris 800 C.F.I.'s
- Thread starter harrysmith500
- Start date
more PC V tuning info from the school of hard knocks
Almost correct. It is Stoutner's target AFR map from the 157hp map working on his engine combo. For a decent trim map, a guy needs to run for around 40 minutes or so of varying conditions to settle the trim numbers. For a mountain guy, you gotta make a bunch of pulls to get the 80-100% numbers to settle down.
The one extra accessory that really helps is the LCD to show/record AFR's as you ride. With that extra info, you can really dial in the upper end fueling. For example; you use 500 main jets in your carbed 800 hot rod. If you found you needed to go richer or leaner by two jet sizes (down to 480 or up to 520) you'd be changing the WOT fueling by 4% holding everything else constant. (In real life, the engine likes the change, increases efficiency by a tad and takes in more air and runs faster and needs clutching to come back to the same rpm.) A 20% change would mean you'd just changed 10 jet sizes. You apply some common sense and throw the BS flag on that type of adjustment and repeat the exercise to provide better info on your changes. Using AFR as a relative* indicator, if you were running, say, 12.5:1 and you went leaner by two jet sizes, you should be somewhere in the range of 13.0:1 if your engine still runs the same rpm (this is an assumption to make airflow constant and just use the decreased fuel amount to estimate the new AFR).
Notice how a 4% fuel volume change made about a half point AFR change - this tells you that huge swings made by the autotune trim may be working on part of the oem map during an accel or decel event and may not fix what you are working on. In fact, it may make driveability worse as you're adding a huge amount of fuel and are "covering up'" the condition you are trying to tune. I've found that there are areas where the valves are opening and closing there are some silly things in the AFR's that are probably put there to make the best out of a tricky fueling situation. By saying, AHA!, when the trim map shows big numbers, you're thinking you have fixed the crappy oem map and you got 'er dialed. Then you go run it and your driveability is "better" but you run out of fuel two hours before your buddies. The crap you get from your buddies about "How's that PC working our for ya?" will certainly reduce your perceived benefit. I'm just saying that throwing fuel in the mid-range and taking a bunch out of the top doesn't always apply. Wash, plug readings, EGT's and butt dyno feel still need to be used with these 'lectronic tuners.
* - stoutner's AFR is for his 02 location and engine, scarter's is for his combo and mine probably reads different than those other two. Hence, the 02 and displayed AFR are a relative indicator for the unit they are installed on - they are not an absolute universal AFR value.
Almost correct. It is Stoutner's target AFR map from the 157hp map working on his engine combo. For a decent trim map, a guy needs to run for around 40 minutes or so of varying conditions to settle the trim numbers. For a mountain guy, you gotta make a bunch of pulls to get the 80-100% numbers to settle down.
The one extra accessory that really helps is the LCD to show/record AFR's as you ride. With that extra info, you can really dial in the upper end fueling. For example; you use 500 main jets in your carbed 800 hot rod. If you found you needed to go richer or leaner by two jet sizes (down to 480 or up to 520) you'd be changing the WOT fueling by 4% holding everything else constant. (In real life, the engine likes the change, increases efficiency by a tad and takes in more air and runs faster and needs clutching to come back to the same rpm.) A 20% change would mean you'd just changed 10 jet sizes. You apply some common sense and throw the BS flag on that type of adjustment and repeat the exercise to provide better info on your changes. Using AFR as a relative* indicator, if you were running, say, 12.5:1 and you went leaner by two jet sizes, you should be somewhere in the range of 13.0:1 if your engine still runs the same rpm (this is an assumption to make airflow constant and just use the decreased fuel amount to estimate the new AFR).
Notice how a 4% fuel volume change made about a half point AFR change - this tells you that huge swings made by the autotune trim may be working on part of the oem map during an accel or decel event and may not fix what you are working on. In fact, it may make driveability worse as you're adding a huge amount of fuel and are "covering up'" the condition you are trying to tune. I've found that there are areas where the valves are opening and closing there are some silly things in the AFR's that are probably put there to make the best out of a tricky fueling situation. By saying, AHA!, when the trim map shows big numbers, you're thinking you have fixed the crappy oem map and you got 'er dialed. Then you go run it and your driveability is "better" but you run out of fuel two hours before your buddies. The crap you get from your buddies about "How's that PC working our for ya?" will certainly reduce your perceived benefit. I'm just saying that throwing fuel in the mid-range and taking a bunch out of the top doesn't always apply. Wash, plug readings, EGT's and butt dyno feel still need to be used with these 'lectronic tuners.
* - stoutner's AFR is for his 02 location and engine, scarter's is for his combo and mine probably reads different than those other two. Hence, the 02 and displayed AFR are a relative indicator for the unit they are installed on - they are not an absolute universal AFR value.
Maps for a ported engine
I currently have a 09 d8 with carls upper end porting,head mod, slp pipe and can, Carls helix on the high side. 66 belly buster, 2k -6k 8250 rpm I have been experiencing running issues similar to others at both idle and mid range. I just bought a pc v. Does anybody have any experience with mapping for a setup similar to my sled? Slp has a map for the pipe and can however they reflash the ecm for their ported cyl and head. Thanks for the feedback
I currently have a 09 d8 with carls upper end porting,head mod, slp pipe and can, Carls helix on the high side. 66 belly buster, 2k -6k 8250 rpm I have been experiencing running issues similar to others at both idle and mid range. I just bought a pc v. Does anybody have any experience with mapping for a setup similar to my sled? Slp has a map for the pipe and can however they reflash the ecm for their ported cyl and head. Thanks for the feedback
I don't want to post up the actualy stoutner map as that is property of DTR, that was a spreadsheet of what my auto tune trim did on stoutners 162 HP map, but I have found that my laptop/ PC module was being goofey and not showing the fuel table.
I have since reloaded the stoutner 162 HP map and it shows the fuel table and the trim table properly now. Sled runs snotty on the bottom when just putting around, like say 5000-6000 rmps... anyone else expirience this? Turned 7950-8000 all day, with ocasional 8050, so sled is ripping up top, using a lot of fuel though.
I have since reloaded the stoutner 162 HP map and it shows the fuel table and the trim table properly now. Sled runs snotty on the bottom when just putting around, like say 5000-6000 rmps... anyone else expirience this? Turned 7950-8000 all day, with ocasional 8050, so sled is ripping up top, using a lot of fuel though.
harry..bump it up to 8300 and see how much you like it...
when you say bump it up, you mean drop some weight in my clutches to gain higher rpm??
I paid like $220 for the SLP clutch kit and TCP installed it for free upon assembly.
I am 300 lbs dressed.
I paid like $220 for the SLP clutch kit and TCP installed it for free upon assembly.
I am 300 lbs dressed.
yeah..sleds just perform much better with the rpms up...noticable difference....
M
minus40
Well-known member
OK it worked. I used the target afr as posted above from scarter. And obviously I need to go in and do a little fixing and blending.
I have a few questions.
The sled had quite a burble running between 4500 and 5000 at low throttle. The instant the tach hit 5000 it cleared up. After looking at this map I can see it added a lot of fuel right there. Why? It should be 14:1 not?
I also saw the det come on in the higher rpm range at less than wot. Again looking at the map I can see some big negatives right there. Is 13:1 too lean for that area. Assuming that it was tuning for 13:1. The lcd I have ordered has not shown up yet so that might help a lot if I can see the actual afr.
One thing I can think of that might explain a bit, does the auto tune adjust quick enough to try and compensate for instant rich from sudden throttle drop?
Anyways I used to read an af gauge and input manually on the pc111. This is my first try at the auto tune and the pcv.
Comments and tips would be appreciated. An example of blending would be nice.
I have a few questions.
The sled had quite a burble running between 4500 and 5000 at low throttle. The instant the tach hit 5000 it cleared up. After looking at this map I can see it added a lot of fuel right there. Why? It should be 14:1 not?
I also saw the det come on in the higher rpm range at less than wot. Again looking at the map I can see some big negatives right there. Is 13:1 too lean for that area. Assuming that it was tuning for 13:1. The lcd I have ordered has not shown up yet so that might help a lot if I can see the actual afr.
One thing I can think of that might explain a bit, does the auto tune adjust quick enough to try and compensate for instant rich from sudden throttle drop?
Anyways I used to read an af gauge and input manually on the pc111. This is my first try at the auto tune and the pcv.
Comments and tips would be appreciated. An example of blending would be nice.
S
scarter
Well-known member
I have looked at your map that you posted above. I am assuming you have accepted the trims and your autotune trims were moved to this base map.
With that in mind my first attempt at blending would be this:
Down around 4000 to 6000 rpm I would change all of those negatives to posative values. Change the 28 to an 18. I am doing this mostly from experience. The negative values were probably generated during some on and off throttle riding, from experience this area of the map is generally lean. To get more consistent trims in this area try smoother throttle position changes.
Closer to WOT I would take the -13, -10 and -15 and change all of those to minus 5's this should help with the detonation light that you saw.
From 6000 to 7000 rpm I would change all of those negatives to positive values.
After you have made these changes try some more autotuning with some smoother throttle position changes. This will help autotune produce more consistent trims.
just stopping by to say that my 162 Stoutner map ripped this weekend. 
Target A/F Map?
On page 2, scarter has a target a/f map printed....is this still a good map for a target a/f?
My friend has a PC5 with autotune, and we are planning a tuning day. My inital thought is to load the stoutner157 map from dynotech and then autotune it in the hills-taking the laptop with us. The sled is a stock 09 800 with all updates.
On page 2, scarter has a target a/f map printed....is this still a good map for a target a/f?
My friend has a PC5 with autotune, and we are planning a tuning day. My inital thought is to load the stoutner157 map from dynotech and then autotune it in the hills-taking the laptop with us. The sled is a stock 09 800 with all updates.
S
sledhead004
Member
Thinking of buying a PCV for my '10 D8 163, I have a slp single and air horn with carls clutching. I can't complain, sled runs very well. Is it going to be that much better if I get a PCV? Also Which maps to go with, I think Dynotech seems the way to go. But I was wondering if Carls had one available thats worth getting I ride 6,000 to 10,000 ft here in Colorado.
S
scarter
Well-known member
As for the AFR map on page 5 and doing some auto tune with Jim's Stouter map you should be good to go. Watch out for large fuel trims generated by auto tune, like +25% in the midrang, If you see really large values surounded by smaller values you can take the large values down a notch so they blend better with the surrounding values.
As for adding the PC V to the 2010 with SLP pipe and Carl's clutching, I think you would see a noticable gain. You should see better midrange throttle response from the added midrange fuel. You should also see 50-100 rpm on top because the SLP map is still pulling fuel on top even with the pipe added.
As for adding the PC V to the 2010 with SLP pipe and Carl's clutching, I think you would see a noticable gain. You should see better midrange throttle response from the added midrange fuel. You should also see 50-100 rpm on top because the SLP map is still pulling fuel on top even with the pipe added.
DTR maps???
Scarter,
I got a different map from Jim (156.1) for my 10 assault, do you know if there's a big difference between the stoutner (162 or 157) map and the one Jim sent me??? I run PCV no autotune, slp can and good clutching...
Elev 0 to 1000 ft but also run dubois, tog and carrot basin. Jim said that map was a bit more conservative. Suggestions appreciated!!!
Thanks,
Chris
Scarter,
I got a different map from Jim (156.1) for my 10 assault, do you know if there's a big difference between the stoutner (162 or 157) map and the one Jim sent me??? I run PCV no autotune, slp can and good clutching...
Elev 0 to 1000 ft but also run dubois, tog and carrot basin. Jim said that map was a bit more conservative. Suggestions appreciated!!!
Thanks,
Chris
S
scarter
Well-known member
I am assuming here but I think you 156 map is just a little richer map than the original 157 map. I would ask Jim himself if you really want to know the finer details. Jim is a great tuning resource for this stuff.
My suggestion is try it out and see how it runs. Don't forget to run good premium fuel.
My suggestion is try it out and see how it runs. Don't forget to run good premium fuel.
S
sledhead004
Member
Scarter,
I got a different map from Jim (156.1) for my 10 assault, do you know if there's a big difference between the stoutner (162 or 157) map and the one Jim sent me??? I run PCV no autotune, slp can and good clutching...
Elev 0 to 1000 ft but also run dubois, tog and carrot basin. Jim said that map was a bit more conservative. Suggestions appreciated!!!
Thanks,
Chris
Remember you can also add a switch and load 2 seperate maps and change between them by flipping the switch. Can be more convient for comparisions between maps.
