This is exactly why big government is so dangerous to America. The divide is getting bigger and bigger and I wouldnt be suprised if we eventually had a civil war happen again becasue of the way people blame everything on democrats or republican.. Debate is a good thing but the closed mindedness of both parties turn these debates into personal attacks (see many of the comments above) which then cause the debate to be counterproductive.. Every thing is George Bushed fault, or the liberals, or whoever is in the spotlight.. What a joke government and politics is..
if this doesnt make your blodd boil!
- Thread starter MTm7
- Start date
I dont think people have a problem with immigrants coming to America. I think most have a problem with Illegal immigrants. At least thats the way I feel.
Agreed, although in MN there are a number of legal immigrants who are as big of, if not more of a drain on society then illegals are. In my little world(which I like and think is great) we would be rounding up illegals and getting them legal so we could get taxes.
You totally missed my point, which was if our own citizens would take these jobs instead of collecting welfare, there would be no market for illegal immigrant workers.
O
Ollie
ACCOUNT CLOSED
First off, the infastruture of this country can't take it. Second, you really need to take a look at the big picture.
An example.
Jose comes to the US illigally. He works hard and some dem takes pitty and allows him to be rewarded for his crimes. That's the end of it right? WRONG.
Now Jose gets to bring in his brother, mother, father, sister, cousins, childeren, wife and anyone else he can claim relationship with. Every single person that he brings in is instantly eligable for welfare, medicaid, medicare and all the other giveaways. It is called chain migration. Then you add the anchor baby program in and you see a HUGE increase in the population.
I would be open to giving amnesty to the illigals on a few conditions such as those given amnesty are bared from EVERY for ANY reason bringing anyone into this country. An end to the anchor baby program and they are barred from any social programs till he has paid into them for the 40 quarters just like the rest of us.
O
Ollie
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25% of all welfare and social program cost in California go to illigals.
Exactly!
This will be my only post on this topic as it makes me voilently angry how ignorant some are!! I whole heartedly agree with the original post and then some! I cannot think of one single thing in this country that is not corrupted,manipulated or just plain fabricated In the name of our best interest. Its all a bunch of crap!!! The goverment dem or repulican is our enemy! every single thing the goverment does is a complete waste of our taxes from the topics listed above, to the 100's of thousands of non illegals serving life terms on our dollar ! to hell with them my children desrve a education instead we "rehabilitate childmolesters and murders !! the list goes on and on the point is there is going to have to be a revolution Its time to decide what side your on!! personally I am for FREEDOM and JUSTICE not entitlements ,taxes and laws that perpetuate the decay of our country like all of these above and others I mentioned !!
I opinion is that the the government if allowed will mess up any good intentioned idea. That is why our founding fathers created a government with checks and balances to limit the over all power of the government. Where this all started to go down the crapper was with F.D.R. and the new deal. This was the beginning of a socialist way of life. Now we are talking about a socialized health care system, Wellfair, etc. This is a slippery slope and it is hard to stop, kinda like an Attak-20 track in the HC position going down hill on a setup snow day. (now sled related ha ha)
The issue is that our leaders and Representatives have become career politicians. What matters the most to them is getting re-elected. While they all spout out thing like change and for the betterment of the people, how many of them are willing to enact term limits? Very few, because then they lose the free ride. If our founding fathers could see what the government has turned into they would be calling for another revolution. The intention of our founding fathers was to have volunteer leaders and elected officials that would come in once a year for a session and then return home and be a productive member of society running business, farming, etc; not what we have now.
The health care issue is an easy answer IMO. Let the market control it, Get the government out of it all together. Turn it into a system like the auto insurance industry. Give us the consumers the choice to pick and chose the coverage that we want.
I also beleive that the USA sould step down from being the nany to the rest of the world. Other countries need to figure out how to stand on thire own. If they can't, then they fall, and I do not wish to help pick any of them up again. We have problems on own soil that we should direct all outwar attention to. If any of these fallen countries need to me dealt with because they are a security risk to us, then we can deal with it.
The issue is that our leaders and Representatives have become career politicians. What matters the most to them is getting re-elected. While they all spout out thing like change and for the betterment of the people, how many of them are willing to enact term limits? Very few, because then they lose the free ride. If our founding fathers could see what the government has turned into they would be calling for another revolution. The intention of our founding fathers was to have volunteer leaders and elected officials that would come in once a year for a session and then return home and be a productive member of society running business, farming, etc; not what we have now.
The health care issue is an easy answer IMO. Let the market control it, Get the government out of it all together. Turn it into a system like the auto insurance industry. Give us the consumers the choice to pick and chose the coverage that we want.
I also beleive that the USA sould step down from being the nany to the rest of the world. Other countries need to figure out how to stand on thire own. If they can't, then they fall, and I do not wish to help pick any of them up again. We have problems on own soil that we should direct all outwar attention to. If any of these fallen countries need to me dealt with because they are a security risk to us, then we can deal with it.
O
Ollie
ACCOUNT CLOSED
The biggest problem with the government is the fact they aren't interested in governing anymore.
They will do what ever they can to make the other party look bad so they can aquire more power. The two sides are currently polarized like never before in the history of this country.
They will do what ever they can to make the other party look bad so they can aquire more power. The two sides are currently polarized like never before in the history of this country.
yes and bring with them diseases and homeless people...good call
you might wanna do a little more reading up on that one bud
apparently you are not for bettering yourself, your family, or your country and that last quote sums you up right there. What you are saying is that everyone should start at ground zero. How can you better something if you always start at the bottom, what do you accomplish? nothing. history repeats itself. Now if you offer a leg up the next person can benefit from that and help his predecessor.
I agree with you. There is a misconception about illegals, at least in Washinton.
Most illegals get fake SS# and do pay into the system. I got this directly from a naturilized citizen from Mexico who knows and associated with Mexicans that are here Illegally. Just something to add to the knowledge base.
Do you think they actually collect a SS retirement check when it's all said and done. Doubt it.
Also, Entering the US illegally is a misdemeanor. less of crime than driving 25 mph over the speed limit.
Besides, can you blame them. Who wouldn't want to be here!!!
Most illegals get fake SS# and do pay into the system. I got this directly from a naturilized citizen from Mexico who knows and associated with Mexicans that are here Illegally. Just something to add to the knowledge base.
Do you think they actually collect a SS retirement check when it's all said and done. Doubt it.
Also, Entering the US illegally is a misdemeanor. less of crime than driving 25 mph over the speed limit.
Besides, can you blame them. Who wouldn't want to be here!!!
O
Ollie
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I agree with you. There is a misconception about illegals, at least in Washinton.
Most illegals get fake SS# and do pay into the system. I got this directly from a naturilized citizen from Mexico who knows and associated with Mexicans that are here Illegally. Just something to add to the knowledge base.
Also, Entering the US illegally is a misdemeanor. less of crime than driving 25 mph over the speed limit.
Besides, can you blame them. Who wouldn't want to be here!!!
Actually, more of them get stolen SS numbers which can destroy a persons life.
It is only a misdemeanor because Kennedy made it that way the first time they lied to us about amnesty for illigals back in 86. They were going to get tough on the people that hire illigals, seal the boarder and increase interior enforcement. Sound familiar? Same dance, same players, same lies.
If we let everyone into the US that wanted, we would be a third world country in just a couple years. Those that come here legally are interested in staying, they learn the language, they learn the customs, they become american citizens. Those that come here illigaly are interested in making money. They could care less about our language, our laws (obviously since they have no problem breaking them) and our customs (since they demand we observe their holidays and their customs, print everything in their language ETC.).
Fellas,
I don't mean to oversimplify this, but we aren't going to solve the Mexican problem, until "they" solve the Mexico problem. I can say latin american, but we all know that its a Mexican thing to most Americans. Thats fine, send these illegal criminals back wince they came. Once you get these 12 million violent criminals herded out of the country, get to work mowning your lawn. When your done with that gut those cattle, pigs and chickens for slaughter. After that, then get out there and hand pick some lettuce, wash my car and if you have a second then clean me a table down to the Applebees. Oh and if you bought a "track" home in the last two years, you can thank them for that too.
Go ahead all you titans of the keyboard, start carving on me. However, before the hating begins understand that the reason this problem exists is because our country is a heck of a draw for people seeking a better life. Not every person who flits across the border illegally is sucking down your tax dollars. I'll submit to you all that there are just as many card carrying aliens here committing crimes. Where I'm from it isn't the young men and women here illegally that are out gang banging. Typically they are here to work, earn money and try to raise up there families back home.
All of them, of course not. Do some of these people bring drugs, you bet. But I can assure you that if drugs are flowing into this country, its because there is a market for it. If all you tough on crime types want to start cleaning house, why don't you start with the scrap yard that buys copperwire, but doesn't require any identification, and pays in cash. This is a great example of a multitude of crimes. Theft, receiving stolen property, tax evasion for starters. Call the police on the neighbors that are peddling dope down the road. Oh, and all of you that occasionally partake in the tree or a little nose candy and pay someone else for it, STFU, some "greaser" taking your job is the least of your worries. Cranksters are a far bigger threat to your community than a couple of "taco benders". I've grown up around mexican folks and the like and most are hard working God fearing people. I know just as many rotten "crackers" as rotten anybody else's.
As an employer, I know that some of these dudes that have worked here are probably wet. I get two forms of ID, I fill out the paperwork and as far as the EDD, DOJ and US Treasury is concerned, we are good to go. When people work for me they are paid for the job that they do, plus I pay taxes, comp and in some cases insurance. For the most part, the men (and women) are hard working. Although over the years I see a softening of the work force, but that I see in every color of people.
As to the job market, there aren't going to be a lot of whities wanting to do manual labor. I've hired guys that thought it was an outrage to have to sit in an air-conditioned piece of equipment more than forty hours a week. If thats what you do for a living, that great. But if you come up in my farm with that weak azzed talk, I'll laugh you off the ranch. Those of you farmers and independent operators know "that guy". They whine about this that and the other. They are unreliable and know so much more than you or I do. But these are the dudes that are the first to complain about job loss when "Jose" wheels in 10 mins ahead of time, lunch in hand - and we are making dust at 2 minutes after six in the morning. I don't give a hoot if you're white, brown or green - you want a days pay, you do a days work.
Now for the goverment and Carter v Reagen v Bush v Clinton v Bush. Under each regieme my family has come out a little stronger. We expect government policy to lead us to riches - but then complain about the goverment. These people aren't going to do squat for you. You are going to have to do it your self. How many times have we heard that such and such or so and so is closing forests, raise taxes, limiting freedoms. Hello people, you Rep or Sen is in the same house. Break away from the max thread once in a while and check out your legilators voting record. Write them, visit them. Tell them what you think. If all of us spend half the time we spend here, carving each other up, on legilative awareness, we'd all be a lot better informed.
Want to complain about something, ask your elected officals what they're doing with the extra tax they are earning at the pump. The price has doubled so should have the revenues if its a percentage. What about your tires, tracks, tools, trucks, cars, graders, dozers, parts, etc. OUR and I strees our government at all levels is increasing revenues, but still can't get by? We put them there - I guess we have no sense about how to run a country. I know exactly what some of you are saying about immigration, but booting 12 million people out of the country will take 214500 bus trips to the border. I'm not sure we can afford the diesel.
I'm not trying to marginalize the problem, but I hate kid touchers and drug dealers and theives more than someone who is working, paying rent and going to church - whether they have a green card or not.
Flame away!
I don't mean to oversimplify this, but we aren't going to solve the Mexican problem, until "they" solve the Mexico problem. I can say latin american, but we all know that its a Mexican thing to most Americans. Thats fine, send these illegal criminals back wince they came. Once you get these 12 million violent criminals herded out of the country, get to work mowning your lawn. When your done with that gut those cattle, pigs and chickens for slaughter. After that, then get out there and hand pick some lettuce, wash my car and if you have a second then clean me a table down to the Applebees. Oh and if you bought a "track" home in the last two years, you can thank them for that too.
Go ahead all you titans of the keyboard, start carving on me. However, before the hating begins understand that the reason this problem exists is because our country is a heck of a draw for people seeking a better life. Not every person who flits across the border illegally is sucking down your tax dollars. I'll submit to you all that there are just as many card carrying aliens here committing crimes. Where I'm from it isn't the young men and women here illegally that are out gang banging. Typically they are here to work, earn money and try to raise up there families back home.
All of them, of course not. Do some of these people bring drugs, you bet. But I can assure you that if drugs are flowing into this country, its because there is a market for it. If all you tough on crime types want to start cleaning house, why don't you start with the scrap yard that buys copperwire, but doesn't require any identification, and pays in cash. This is a great example of a multitude of crimes. Theft, receiving stolen property, tax evasion for starters. Call the police on the neighbors that are peddling dope down the road. Oh, and all of you that occasionally partake in the tree or a little nose candy and pay someone else for it, STFU, some "greaser" taking your job is the least of your worries. Cranksters are a far bigger threat to your community than a couple of "taco benders". I've grown up around mexican folks and the like and most are hard working God fearing people. I know just as many rotten "crackers" as rotten anybody else's.
As an employer, I know that some of these dudes that have worked here are probably wet. I get two forms of ID, I fill out the paperwork and as far as the EDD, DOJ and US Treasury is concerned, we are good to go. When people work for me they are paid for the job that they do, plus I pay taxes, comp and in some cases insurance. For the most part, the men (and women) are hard working. Although over the years I see a softening of the work force, but that I see in every color of people.
As to the job market, there aren't going to be a lot of whities wanting to do manual labor. I've hired guys that thought it was an outrage to have to sit in an air-conditioned piece of equipment more than forty hours a week. If thats what you do for a living, that great. But if you come up in my farm with that weak azzed talk, I'll laugh you off the ranch. Those of you farmers and independent operators know "that guy". They whine about this that and the other. They are unreliable and know so much more than you or I do. But these are the dudes that are the first to complain about job loss when "Jose" wheels in 10 mins ahead of time, lunch in hand - and we are making dust at 2 minutes after six in the morning. I don't give a hoot if you're white, brown or green - you want a days pay, you do a days work.
Now for the goverment and Carter v Reagen v Bush v Clinton v Bush. Under each regieme my family has come out a little stronger. We expect government policy to lead us to riches - but then complain about the goverment. These people aren't going to do squat for you. You are going to have to do it your self. How many times have we heard that such and such or so and so is closing forests, raise taxes, limiting freedoms. Hello people, you Rep or Sen is in the same house. Break away from the max thread once in a while and check out your legilators voting record. Write them, visit them. Tell them what you think. If all of us spend half the time we spend here, carving each other up, on legilative awareness, we'd all be a lot better informed.
Want to complain about something, ask your elected officals what they're doing with the extra tax they are earning at the pump. The price has doubled so should have the revenues if its a percentage. What about your tires, tracks, tools, trucks, cars, graders, dozers, parts, etc. OUR and I strees our government at all levels is increasing revenues, but still can't get by? We put them there - I guess we have no sense about how to run a country. I know exactly what some of you are saying about immigration, but booting 12 million people out of the country will take 214500 bus trips to the border. I'm not sure we can afford the diesel.
I'm not trying to marginalize the problem, but I hate kid touchers and drug dealers and theives more than someone who is working, paying rent and going to church - whether they have a green card or not.
Flame away!
When my relatives came to the US from Italy they did so LEGALLY thru Ellis Island (EVERY LAST ONE OF THEM and I anyone can go to www.ellisisland.org and look it up) and then they did their very best to learn english and promote the US. They stopped waving the Italian Flag and proudly displayed the US flag. THAT is a far cry from what the immigrants of today are doing. Even the media is reporting on people moving from Miami because they are unhirable (US citizens that speak only English) and that is scary.
Hunt down every man, woman, and child of the fockers and shoot EVERY FOCKING ONE OF THEM RIGHT IN THE FOREHEAD!! Bullets are cheap and they won't come right back to infest us like the blood sucking parasites they are. You all may think I'm a complete dick for being this harsh and I really don't give a ratsass. It'd only take about one round of this and they wouldn't want to come here anymore!
Hunt down every man, woman, and child of the fockers and shoot EVERY FOCKING ONE OF THEM RIGHT IN THE FOREHEAD!! Bullets are cheap and they won't come right back to infest us like the blood sucking parasites they are. You all may think I'm a complete dick for being this harsh and I really don't give a ratsass. It'd only take about one round of this and they wouldn't want to come here anymore!
This isn't unrealistic either. Mexico does this on their southern boarder, maybe the US should follow???????????
The red dots are because there are a lot of people on this board that get very upset when people have different view points. They feel they need to have them pay or hurt or whatever the justification is. Kind of childish, to want to put another person down for not having the same viewpoints as yourself. He has been pretty open with his viewpoints and has engaged people in discussions. What ever happened to "To each his own". Isn't there a word for having everyone believe the same thing?....... It is called boring and stagnation, both dreadfull things.
Thanks for the positive rep before though!
That is the biggest problem in this country! IMO This is were I think Barack can actually help the country more than McCain.
