Why are we bankrupt?

[JSCC]

BS?...chill...when I say false that includes stolen ones...yes! Ok I am a state investigator and I worked Border Patrol 10 years ago. THEY do not pay income tax! WHATSOEVER! Yes, they steal SSN's. They buy fake ID's by the bulk. I guarantee if I ran your SSN in the national insurance claim database it would show that it has been used by an illegal. I ran mine a bit ago and some illegal has used it in FL for a worker's comp claim....of course that means they used it illegally to work.

This is true. However, this goes back the to Company Owner. As a Employer, you cannot allow false W-4's. If there is some reason to suspect an inaccurate W-4, you must ask to fill out names of all dependants listed. I think it would be pretty easy to figure out if a 20 year old kid comes in and claims 10 dependants.....?
Many will turn the blind eye I know. But that leads us back to who's at fault? Both I believe.

 

[Ollie]

For me the whole illigal immigration thing boils down to this.

They made the decision to knowingly break our laws.
They knew what they were doing was/is wrong.
They knew if they got caught they would be deported.
They knowingly put their families in jeoperdy to be here.
They knowingly do everything in their power to continue to break our laws.
They demand we learn their language.
They damand we teach their childeren at our expense.
They demand free health care.
They demand the rights and freedoms that come with our bill of rights even though they know they arn't entitled to them since they aren't supposed to be here.
They demand to be allowed to continue to break our laws.

They come into an area and drive the wages down and the american/legal immigrants that were doing those jobs have to either find other work or move and find similar work to make a living. Well, once they have been driven out, the liberals and bleeding hearts stand back and cry that there are no americans that are willing to do the work. That's because you drove them out of the area. Now people are crying because they are having to pay those same people they drove out to move back and take over the work they were doing, and they have to pay them more then they did the illigals.
Boohoo, cry me a river. Greed created this problem and now those same people have to pay to fix it.

Then after doing all that, they demand to be made citizens.

I don't think so.
They broke the law.
They WILL pay the price.
There are no free rides and it is about time people woke up to that.

 

[spomey]

I know this thread is heading on SS and illegals but fo welfare. that is another thing that boils me.....why welfare? why not workfare? you want a freebie paycheck, give them a ride down the road and some trash bags, pay them welfare/100 for each full bag, that way 100 bags of picked up trash equals their pay for the month. VERY expensive labor but much better than current.

another is with Democrats wanting equality doesnt that scare the Chit out of you? why would you go through all the work to be a profesional (doctor/lawyer/engineer/anything) only to be average....then would an average person be able to sled/ski/bike/4x4/...live?

as for criminals and low lifes.....we don't need electric chairs we need electric bleachers! (move the charred POS from the chair yourself, then have a seat....)

as for immigrants, man, that is tough...do it leagaly (force that) no exceptions no benefits of any kind until it is done properly. That is the way our grandparents had to do it (ellis Island) allow all that want to come in BUT adjust the benefits to realistic levels and implement workfare no free rides.

Bi lingual everything? I have problems with that but go to Europe and see how they treat the masses, you must take 2-3 language classes, the major through-ways are bi or tri lingual (hard to swallow but they make it work)

 

[Ollie]

This is true. However, this goes back the to Company Owner. As a Employer, you cannot allow false W-4's. If there is some reason to suspect an inaccurate W-4, you must ask to fill out names of all dependants listed. I think it would be pretty easy to figure out if a 20 year old kid comes in and claims 10 dependants.....?
Many will turn the blind eye I know. But that leads us back to who's at fault? Both I believe.

Having had employess, I can see where it would be insanely easy to forge a W-4. The only real way to make a difference is to use the E-verify system and them pass the Save act that would force all compainies to use the E-verify system. Employers don't like that idea because it is almost impossible to forge.

Anti-E-verify folks claim there are too many errors in the E-verify system. Goes back to greed. Every year the SS admin sends out thousands of what are called no-match letters. That is where someones SS doesn't match the name or address or something. The company is then supposed to get it straightened out. They usually just threw the letters in the trash. There was and is no penalty for not following thru on the no-match letters. When homeland security tried to enforce the No-match letters, they were sued by the liberal groups to stop it. What do you know, they found a bleeding heart judge to support their claim. Now homeland security has satisfied the court ruling only to have Nancy Palosi use her power to interfere as she tries to use her position as speaker to protect the criminals and everyone thinks that is ok.

 

[JSCC]

Having had employess, I can see where it would be insanely easy to forge a W-4. The only real way to make a difference is to use the E-verify system and them pass the Save act that would force all compainies to use the E-verify system. Employers don't like that idea because it is almost impossible to forge.

Anti-E-verify folks claim there are too many errors in the E-verify system. Goes back to greed. Every year the SS admin sends out thousands of what are called no-match letters. That is where someones SS doesn't match the name or address or something. The company is then supposed to get it straightened out. They usually just threw the letters in the trash. There was and is no penalty for not following thru on the no-match letters. When homeland security tried to enforce the No-match letters, they were sued by the liberal groups to stop it. What do you know, they found a bleeding heart judge to support their claim. Now homeland security has satisfied the court ruling only to have Nancy Palosi use her power to interfere as she tries to use her position as speaker to protect the criminals and everyone thinks that is ok.

Having been in the same shoes, you are making it difficult for me to debate this.......lol. I agree with all of this.

I do not agree with all of your prior statement, but I think that just comes down to difference of opinion...?

 

[JSCC]

I know this thread is heading on SS and illegals but fo welfare. that is another thing that boils me.....why welfare? why not workfare? you want a freebie paycheck, give them a ride down the road and some trash bags, pay them welfare/100 for each full bag, that way 100 bags of picked up trash equals their pay for the month. VERY expensive labor but much better than current.

another is with Democrats wanting equality doesnt that scare the Chit out of you? why would you go through all the work to be a profesional (doctor/lawyer/engineer/anything) only to be average....then would an average person be able to sled/ski/bike/4x4/...live?

as for criminals and low lifes.....we don't need electric chairs we need electric bleachers! (move the charred POS from the chair yourself, then have a seat....)

as for immigrants, man, that is tough...do it leagaly (force that) no exceptions no benefits of any kind until it is done properly. That is the way our grandparents had to do it (ellis Island) allow all that want to come in BUT adjust the benefits to realistic levels and implement workfare no free rides.

Bi lingual everything? I have problems with that but go to Europe and see how they treat the masses, you must take 2-3 language classes, the major through-ways are bi or tri lingual (hard to swallow but they make it work)

The difference between then and now is, then you could come over if you were an average Joe, they did not have limits on the amount that could come over, and Ellis Island was just a holding point.
Now you have no holding point, you have to stay in your country until such time as someone feels you should be an american.

Does anyone find it ironic that Cuban's can stay here aslong as they touch ground? I know there is a few countries that we do that with, but yet an Canadian or Mexican wants to come here, all he!! breaks loose!

 

[Ollie]

Does anyone find it ironic that Cuban's can stay here aslong as they touch ground? I know there is a few countries that we do that with, but yet an Canadian or Mexican wants to come here, all he!! breaks loose!

There is a big difference.
There arn't 12 MILLION (estimated as of 2000, some have the current number closer to 18 million) cubans here illigaly.
You don't see cubans taking to the streets, flying cuban flags a demanding we reward them for breaking our laws??
You don't see cubans demanded we learn to speak THEIR language.
and on and on and on.

 

[hilinerider]

The difference between then and now is, then you could come over if you were an average Joe, they did not have limits on the amount that could come over, and Ellis Island was just a holding point.
Now you have no holding point, you have to stay in your country until such time as someone feels you should be an american.

Does anyone find it ironic that Cuban's can stay here aslong as they touch ground? I know there is a few countries that we do that with, but yet an Canadian or Mexican wants to come here, all he!! breaks loose!

canadians come down here all the time and take oilfield work away from me and others all the time, but if wanted to go up there its like a national law that i cannot come into canada for work???

double standard???

nafta at its finest i guess??

 

[swampwater]

Well first of all many of the illegals don't work for large employers who withhold FICA and those that do the government loves as they help keep the SS somewhat solvent as they will not get benefits unless the government allows. Many of the illegals work under the table and self employed, they pay "NO" taxes. They do overwhelm the welfare system, just look at California if you need proof. My first partner came from Austria in the mid 60's and he had to have a sponser who under oath had to agree that he would be employed, not require welfare and would not violate any laws of the US or the state and that he would have a place to live, boy have things changed.
The difference between him and the illegals is he violated no law and he became just as productive as any illegal alien. Also he would have had to register for the draft and served in the military had he not already filled his obligation in the Austrian army. Maybe thats what we need, renew the draft and make all these illegals serve their 2 years in the military if they cannot show service in the Mexican military. Swampy

The difference between then and now is, then you could come over if you were an average Joe, they did not have limits on the amount that could come over, and Ellis Island was just a holding point.
Now you have no holding point, you have to stay in your country until such time as someone feels you should be an american.

Does anyone find it ironic that Cuban's can stay here aslong as they touch ground? I know there is a few countries that we do that with, but yet an Canadian or Mexican wants to come here, all he!! breaks loose!

 

[JSCC]

There is a big difference.
There arn't 12 MILLION (estimated as of 2000, some have the current number closer to 18 million) cubans here illigaly.
You don't see cubans taking to the streets, flying cuban flags a demanding we reward them for breaking our laws??
You don't see cubans demanded we learn to speak THEIR language.
and on and on and on.

Blacks kill most of the people in America, so should we send all Blacks away because of it?

Ollie, you ever had a traffic violation? Dui? MIP?
If so, you have no word is saying someones a criminal and should not have the same benefits as you and I.

 

[JSCC]

canadians come down here all the time and take oilfield work away from me and others all the time, but if wanted to go up there its like a national law that i cannot come into canada for work???

double standard???

nafta at its finest i guess??

I have no knowledge of this, so I cannot comment. Definitely sounds like a double standard to me.

 

[JSCC]

Well first of all many of the illegals don't work for large employers who withhold FICA and those that do the government loves as they help keep the SS somewhat solvent as they will not get benefits unless the government allows. Many of the illegals work under the table and self employed, they pay "NO" taxes. They do overwhelm the welfare system, just look at California if you need proof. My first partner came from Austria in the mid 60's and he had to have a sponser who under oath had to agree that he would be employed, not require welfare and would not violate any laws of the US or the state and that he would have a place to live, boy have things changed.
The difference between him and the illegals is he violated no law and he became just as productive as any illegal alien. Also he would have had to register for the draft and served in the military had he not already filled his obligation in the Austrian army. Maybe thats what we need, renew the draft and make all these illegals serve their 2 years in the military if they cannot show service in the Mexican military. Swampy

You are correct on employers paying under the table. But employers are as much to blame as anyone.
I also fully agree with the second half of your statement. If you are an American, you must fulfill ALL your obligations as one, just as I do.

Now the only thing I will say differently, is you cannot Sponsor someone like you could then, or I would have.....
See the thing is, I have tried to Sponsor an immigrant. I tried to jump through any and every hoop I could find. But unless they had a degree, or could prove that they had something to give that an American could not give, it was not going to happen. My legal counsel basically told me it's a lost cause.

 

[MPS]

This is true. However, this goes back the to Company Owner. As a Employer, you cannot allow false W-4's. If there is some reason to suspect an inaccurate W-4, you must ask to fill out names of all dependants listed. I think it would be pretty easy to figure out if a 20 year old kid comes in and claims 10 dependants.....?
Many will turn the blind eye I know. But that leads us back to who's at fault? Both I believe.

Good point...I don't think many employers care. I wish we would have fined more businesses when I worked Border Patrol. The US just gives them a slap on the wrist. We were allowed to fine them 10,000 per illegal. I rarely saw that.

...and with welfare...illegals cannot actually qualify, but all their kids born here can because the kids are citizens.....however any illegal can get emergency medical and Medicaid (state and federal dollars) picks up the tab! ....and get this! If you have a house full of 5 immigrants and both the mom and dad (both illegal) work....their income doesn't count towards their kids getting full welfare! Their income is exempt from welfare because they are illegal! WHY the hell you ask? I don't know, write your congressman! So if we have an American citizen family struggling but the father makes too much on the poverty guidlines then they can't get food for their kids... but, a family with illegal parents that makes twice as much as the citizen family will still get welfare for their kids. I hate our system! HATE IT! Illegals can also get expedited (emergency food stamps) whenever....they don't have to prove their citizenship for that....but it is only a one month out of every 6. Why do I know so much about welfare....part of my job for the state is investigating welfare fraud....and welfare fraud is rampid!!!!! I can tell you more about the welfare system...it would make you sick. It is set up to be abused....why do you think we have so many deadbeat lazy a$$ Americans on it!

I consistently work with the ICE fugitive team (arrest illegals and illegal fugitives). We have ICE and the Border Patrol catching illegals and sending them back or putting them in prison and then sending them back. You would think all government cooperates with each other. HA! When welfare workers find out an illegal is applying for welfare and making decent money in the US....do you think they report it!? LMAO! Hell no! In fact workers are even told now that they don't need to find out if someone is actually illegal...so if they get some lame a$$ birth certificate or SS card they just go with it....makes my job 1000 times harder and I can't keep up with all the damn fraud! Its ridiculous and our system is so BROKE!

 

[Ollie]

Blacks kill most of the people in America, so should we send all Blacks away because of it?

Ollie, you ever had a traffic violation? Dui? MIP?
If so, you have no word is saying someones a criminal and should not have the same benefits as you and I.

Where did the blacks thing come from?? They are americans, we were talking about illigals.

You sitting down, I have NEVER had a ticket, DUI or anything. I have to watch what I do and such to maintain my security clearances.
You seem to keep wanting to talk apples and oranges.
You are talking benifits and rights, I am talking about the law.
If you are in this country illigally, you have no rights under our constitution. You have no right to any of the benifits of being in this country legally.

I keep hearing people in the news and such trying to say the whole illigal thing is a "grey area". News flash. there is no such thing as a grey area when it comes to the law. It is either illigal or it is not. No grey area.

 

[MARCUSO]

What is this thread about??

I thought this thread was about why is the U.S. bankrupt??

Not one post has mentioned the major contributing factor of the U.S. going in the toilet.

Can anyone guess??

 

[winter brew]

I thought this thread was about why is the U.S. bankrupt??

Not one post has mentioned the major contributing factor of the U.S. going in the toilet.

Can anyone guess??

Ummm.....maybe greed and corruption from the highest govt office, down to the CEO's, to the union leadership and the american worker??? The "it's all about me" attitude??? Maybe? Or is it from global warming?

 

[JSCC]

Where did the blacks thing come from?? They are americans, we were talking about illigals.

You sitting down, I have NEVER had a ticket, DUI or anything. I have to watch what I do and such to maintain my security clearances.
You seem to keep wanting to talk apples and oranges.
You are talking benifits and rights, I am talking about the law.
If you are in this country illigally, you have no rights under our constitution. You have no right to any of the benifits of being in this country legally.

I keep hearing people in the news and such trying to say the whole illigal thing is a "grey area". News flash. there is no such thing as a grey area when it comes to the law. It is either illigal or it is not. No grey area.

Actually there are many "blacks" here that are illegal. But my point, we referring to the profiling of Mexicans because they fly a flag or Mexico. To me, it is pretty apples to apples. I just dont hate Hispanics that want to come here from Mexico. I have met some huge piles from there, and some huge piles from many other countries, but I dont say they are all like that because they come from the same country.

As for your record, you are a fine outstanding American, and my hats off to you. I am not so outstanding......

 

[JSCC]

I thought this thread was about why is the U.S. bankrupt??

Not one post has mentioned the major contributing factor of the U.S. going in the toilet.

Can anyone guess??

Someone mentioned illegal immigration as a major contributing factor, or did you miss that?

 

[JSCC]

Ummm.....maybe greed and corruption from the highest govt office, down to the CEO's, to the union leadership and the american worker??? The "it's all about me" attitude??? Maybe? Or is it from global warming?

uhem "climate change"? lol! It has to be true, Al Gore said so.....

 

[Ollie]

There are a couple major things destroying our economy.

Free hand outs. The continuing expansion of the welfare state.
Politicians who think the money is free and they like to hand it out to get votes.
Politicians who don't know what it's like to actually have to pass a balanced budget.

And the biggest reason of all.
The national debt.