Albany Parking Area

[rockdog2112]

I kind of expect them to address the greenrock parking first.
It is the most congested and in seious need of help. That and if they upgrade the greenrock parking to accomodate 4 times the current parking, it will cyphin off some of the vehicles from albany. I know of a few people that park at albany and ride all the way back up to the climbing areas just so they don't have to deal with the parking at greenrock.

Boy, that's a long haul up the T trail. It's beautiful but then you have to cross Libby Flats and I don't think I have ever been across them when it was not almost a complete white out. I'm tired by the time I get there and we just goof around up there. Those boys that go there, climb their butts off then ride back must be exhausted at the end of the day.

 

[Snow Fox]

Good job rockdog on speaking to Mr. May, sounds like you had a good conversation and that they are aware of the problems. I know for a fact that other agencies in Albany County are aware of the problem as well. I parked at Albany on Sunday and there were a lot of vehicles parked there, & I am happy to say that everything was pretty orderly. I was up at Green Rock this past Sat. and there were a lot of vehicles parked there, but again everything seemed orderly enough for the amount of vehicles up there.

I would like to think that this thread has contributed to some of the improvement that has taken place at the parking areas. Of course there will still be problems, because there will always be knuckleheads in this world no matter where you go. I do want to thank everyone that contributed to this thread.

Snow Fox

 

[rockdog2112]

Thanks Snow Fox. I would also like to think the same about this thread. One thing is for sure; if you don't do anything, nothing gets done. As for the knuckleheads, some people you just can't reach and we'll always have to deal with a few of those. Keep those call coming folks. They do make a difference.

Forest Service 307-745-2300
There is a comment form in the "contact us"section.

Albany County Sheriff 307 721 2526 Danny Ponds is the Sheriff, ask for him.

 

[Albany Mountain]

Question from a non-resident:

Just some questions that might jar some more productive discussion. Albany Moutain has an interesting proposal, but I agree without the enforcement it may just be a larger version of the current problem.

'Fraid you are probably right and we don't need any more chaos that is more than what is going on now. I felt this way 10 years ago and the "promoters" still are short on proactive activity. Good Idea on the maps giving information, more info is way better than a lack of it.

I just spoke to a gentleman by the name of Steve May,

GOOD JOB ROCKDOG!!!! Let me add a little more info to the pot.. Per the Wyoming Trails "Grants":
The Wyoming State Trails Program is currently accepting applications for ORV Education &
Enforcement to assist trail managers in Wyoming during the 2009 recreational season. With
financial assistance from the ORV Program, funds are available to federal land managers to assist
the State Trails Program and Federal properties on education and enforcement efforts throughout
the state. Supplemental grant requests will also be considered, please include a detailed
explanation with your application.

Enforce State of Wyoming Off – Road Recreational Vehicle Trails Program and related State
Statutes on National Forest ORV Travel Systems and all applicable Code of Federal Regulations.
Citations or “fix it tickets” will be issued for non – compliance of Wyoming State Registration
Statutes.

The education and enforcement season shall be June through November

I kind of expect them to address the greenrock parking first. I know of a few people that park at albany and ride all the way back up to the climbing areas just so they don't have to deal with the parking at greenrock.

This sounds like it has merit as well. With the winds driving folks to Albany, it would add to the dilemia with the "uneducated" parking anywhere. The plan that I seen at Greenrocks (thanks to you &TMK50) looks good but they are s o o o o s l o w .

I'll contact some more when I get back. This is getting to get good!!!

 

[Hawkeye]

I kind of expect them to address the greenrock parking first.
It is the most congested and in seious need of help. That and if they upgrade the greenrock parking to accomodate 4 times the current parking, it will cyphin off some of the vehicles from albany. I know of a few people that park at albany and ride all the way back up to the climbing areas just so they don't have to deal with the parking at greenrock.

what all are the issues at greenrock? what I've seen mainly are the guys that leave 40' between rigs, just enough not to park another truck and trailer. Once in a while, someone jack knifes their truck clear into the traveled lane and leaves it there. The only double parking I've seen, is guys in the same group. They need to groom at least a mile down from the turn around. Seems to be way more parking at greenrock than Albany. Even when its a major cluster, you can still find a place at greenrock, at Albany you have to leave.

 

[Ollie]

what all are the issues at greenrock? what I've seen mainly are the guys that leave 40' between rigs, just enough not to park another truck and trailer. Once in a while, someone jack knifes their truck clear into the traveled lane and leaves it there. The only double parking I've seen, is guys in the same group. They need to groom at least a mile down from the turn around. Seems to be way more parking at greenrock than Albany. Even when its a major cluster, you can still find a place at greenrock, at Albany you have to leave.

The problem from the forest service stand point is the fact that the parking for sled trailers is from the cattle gaurd to the turn around at the out house. With the number of people of people going to greenrock people are parking beside and on the road as far down as the ski lodge. This is unacceptable to the forest service and law enforcement.

The solution that was put forward by the forest service was to build the lot at a different location and put a groomed trail in to connect to the existing system.

The problem with this was that it would put the connecting access trail right thru the middle of a proposed wilderness area. Furthermore it put us in direct conflict with skiier and snowshoers. We had a meeting (a year and a half ago) and countered that proposal with one of our own. Just up from the Snowy Mountain Lodge the road makes a sharp "S" curve. We proposed coming off that S curve and going out onto the big meadow beyond the treeline and putting a dirt parking lot there. The forest service was going to put the lot at the initial location just because they were doing some logging there and it was easy for em. The Skiers and the couple snow shoers that were there liked that idea because the forest service would give them our current parking lot and it would completely seperate us so they wouldn't have to deal with the noise and we wouldn't have to deal with all the Subaru's.

That was the last thing I heard and my understanding was the forest service liked the idea.

 

[Hawkeye]

Seems it would be easier and cheaper to widen the shoulders below the cattle crossing, there isn't any no parking signs down there now, is there?

 

[Snow Fox]

Seems it would be easier and cheaper to widen the shoulders below the cattle crossing, there isn't any no parking signs down there now, is there?

No there aren't any signs, as long as people park as far on the shoulder as they can and do not block the travel lanes there isn't a problem, unless you want a snow plow to put a nice BIG scratch down the side of your rig. Of course, no overnight parking as well. The biggest problem below the autogate is where people park along the guardrail, that can be a problem.

 

[Ollie]

Seems it would be easier and cheaper to widen the shoulders below the cattle crossing, there isn't any no parking signs down there now, is there?

Heres the rub.
Hi- 130 is a scenic byway.
The rules say that any construction that takes place can't impact or degrade the scenic byway.
It was brought up to just widen the dog snot out of the shoulder area but the forest service said that would violate the byway laws. That is why we suggested beyond the treeline off the "S" curve. They could put the lot there and in the summer you would never even know it was there. The forest service said they would have to charge for parking in the lot because they (the forest service) would have to maintain it and plow it all winter. We countered that with.

OK, so charge away. Just build us a lot we can use that is big enough to handle the current and projected 10 year use.

 

[sevenmacs]

This thread has gotten out of hand, you people need to get a life, someone who posts nearly 8000 posts in 4 years has nothing better to do. I bet you all live in covenant controled neighborhoods and poke your nose into everyones business

I've had been using this lot for over 8 years, almost every weekend, (currently park elsewhere, because I leave my trailer up there for the season)I've always been able to fit my truck and 4 place somewhere and yes some weekends its a real mess. I've never been blocked in, or had issues accessing my trailer. I'm sure you'll find this confusion is true at any good area for sledding.

Many of this issues mentioned are good points and the plan for organizing the lot is great, but it isn't going to happen. When people arrive up there all they think abount is getting on the snow, no ones reading signs, better signage could help but I doubt it, they just want to play.

If everyone starts calling the forest service and state agencies its just going to bring attention to the volume of use and before you know it they will be limiting the number of sleds in the national forest just like yellowstone. So keep it up and the save the forest people will be excited to get involved in this issue. We'll have air quality testing going on, speed limits, police with radar and many more governmental restrictions.

But then maybe thats what many of you want, I feel that many people posting here have hidden agendas and want to see this happen (greenies in disquise).

So why doesn't everyone lead by example, help out by letting new comers know just through general conversation not running around being the parking lot police.

Now I can't wait to see the response on this, but as many have done I've gotten tired of sitting back and letting a few loud mouths bully everyone.

 

[Ollie]

So, get off your but and help us out.
Some are actually trying to make a difference and get some things done that will actually help.
How many planning meetings have you attended in those 8 years?

oh, and a side note. I have been going up there for 32 years.

 

[sevenmacs]

Obviously you didn't get the point

Wow you've got a lot done in 32 years with those planning meetings. I'm sorry for my attitude but trying to work with the forest service on anything is a waste of time. They don't listen to the public, only the enviromentalists get their way. So keep drawing attention to the issue and you'll be waiting in line for someone to leave the mountain so you can have your turn.

I've found that drawing attention to anything with the forest service only makes thing worse and obviously if you've been around so long and attended all those meetings and nothings changed.

Oh I forgot it has changed now we have to pay to park and we get nothing in return They realized the volume of people and how much money they can get for doing nothing but putting up a box,

 

[Albany Mountain]

This thread has gotten out of hand, you people need to get a life, someone who posts nearly 8000 posts in 4 years has nothing better to do. I bet you all live in covenant controled neighborhoods and poke your nose into everyones business

I've had been using this lot for over 8 years, almost every weekend, (currently park elsewhere, because I leave my trailer up there for the season)I've always been able to fit my truck and 4 place somewhere and yes some weekends its a real mess. I've never been blocked in, or had issues accessing my trailer. I'm sure you'll find this confusion is true at any good area for sledding.

Many of this issues mentioned are good points and the plan for organizing the lot is great, but it isn't going to happen. When people arrive up there all they think abount is getting on the snow, no ones reading signs, better signage could help but I doubt it, they just want to play.

If everyone starts calling the forest service and state agencies its just going to bring attention to the volume of use and before you know it they will be limiting the number of sleds in the national forest just like yellowstone. So keep it up and the save the forest people will be excited to get involved in this issue. We'll have air quality testing going on, speed limits, police with radar and many more governmental restrictions.

But then maybe thats what many of you want, I feel that many people posting here have hidden agendas and want to see this happen (greenies in disquise).

So why doesn't everyone lead by example, help out by letting new comers know just through general conversation not running around being the parking lot police.

Now I can't wait to see the response on this, but as many have done I've gotten tired of sitting back and letting a few loud mouths bully everyone.

Oh boy, some more answers needed
First off: I don't live in a covenant controlled neightborhood. I live in Albany. I am the first to keep rules from being placed, but with this small community that has been hammered with a lot of impact, I unfortunately have to make some changes like fencing some of my property, put ugly signs up, just to keep my portion of peace on my own property. I try to catch up and have "general conversation" with those who say, might want to park on my property so they are educated. This is probably poking my nose in their business but it really is my business and it doesn't require any new rules, just maybe another fence I don't want.

We really tolerate a lot of action up there because there are so many good people in a good sport but what was a quiet paradise is now shared with a ton of folks, including you.

Impact is the name of this thread and it needs to be controled because:
1. a lot of it gets dangerous with kids and adults alike, blowing through the community at high speeds prior to getting to the forest boundary
2. folks blocking the entrance to the fire station, emergency personnel, and private entrances
3. And some chaos at the parking lot.
4. And if my opinion of speed limits was unknown, there should be one and radar controlled if necessary, going through the community of Albany for all vehicles.

And even you, have seen it as you have done the right thing and park your unit elsewhere.

So the question is: How much longer does this growth continue uncontrolled to the point that limiting this "multiuse" make sense? And what else can we and you do?

This thread evolved into some workable solutions once the right people get involved. I am guessing, you probably are not interested.

I agree fully that better signage could be utilized but "not to reading them" is not an acceptable excuse in my mind and according to my discussions is not acceptable with the sheriff. I have called them and the Forest Service to get them involved to take care of a couple of issues with those that causing the problems.

There are too many good people enjoying the sport, reading the signs, parking well, driving slow through the area. I know this, the Forest Service knows this, the sheriff knows this. This is Wyoming right?

Going back to my 80/20 rule, at least 80% are doing things right and lead by example, the remainder are learning and some will never "read the signs". But I see mostly the 80% contributing to this thread and hopefully the solution, I have not counted you out.

This is a multiuse area and within my discussions with the Forest Service, they make it a priority to continue so. With the Greenrock Committee (a few years back) they were looking for and got some viable solutions with Sledders, Skiers, Greenies. Reading through their minutes, it appeared TO ME that a couple "environmental" reps in this committee finally gave up the ghost as they were too strong willed in their beliefs.

So I am satisfied that the promotabiliy of the sport, the beauty of the area, and the lack of control brought on the impact. To continue at a safe and responsible pace, some senergy needs to come in so the sport and recreation can continue. The chaos needs to go in a different direction.

With reasonable discussions with all involved, its should be able to be worked out.

HOWS THAT???

 

[Ollie]

Stop making sence.
It confuses people.

 

[rockdog2112]

This thread has gotten out of hand, you people need to get a life, someone who posts nearly 8000 posts in 4 years has nothing better to do. I bet you all live in covenant controled neighborhoods and poke your nose into everyones business

I've had been using this lot for over 8 years, almost every weekend, (currently park elsewhere, because I leave my trailer up there for the season)I've always been able to fit my truck and 4 place somewhere and yes some weekends its a real mess. I've never been blocked in, or had issues accessing my trailer. I'm sure you'll find this confusion is true at any good area for sledding.

Many of this issues mentioned are good points and the plan for organizing the lot is great, but it isn't going to happen. When people arrive up there all they think abount is getting on the snow, no ones reading signs, better signage could help but I doubt it, they just want to play.

If everyone starts calling the forest service and state agencies its just going to bring attention to the volume of use and before you know it they will be limiting the number of sleds in the national forest just like yellowstone. So keep it up and the save the forest people will be excited to get involved in this issue. We'll have air quality testing going on, speed limits, police with radar and many more governmental restrictions.

But then maybe thats what many of you want, I feel that many people posting here have hidden agendas and want to see this happen (greenies in disquise).

So why doesn't everyone lead by example, help out by letting new comers know just through general conversation not running around being the parking lot police.

Now I can't wait to see the response on this, but as many have done I've gotten tired of sitting back and letting a few loud mouths bully everyone.

I'm glad your parking problems are solved. That's not the case for many of us. What exactly is your agenda? After reading your post, I think you are just stirring the pot and obviously have nothing real to contribute. I find it amazing that you feel qualified to judge how others spend their time or live their lives. This thread is three weeks old and 150 posts long and you just now decide to chime in. Have you read all the posts or even most of them? If you have, then why did you wait so long to enlighten us? If you have not, then it's funny that you think you all of a sudden have something worthwhile to say to those who have honestly tried to contribute. I think most folks on this thread tried to contribute something useful (no matter which side they were on). Why don't you?
“I've found that drawing attention to anything with the forest service only makes thing worse” (a quote from your post). How have you found this out? You don’t sound like the kind of guy that even tries so that’s a really bold statement. The only feathers you’ll ruffle are the ones on the other end of your keyboard. I always feel pity for people who are worried or afraid that trying to improve a bad situation or questioning the manner in which something is being done will cost them some rights or privileges. I think they are the kind of people that let others take up the cause and then enjoy the benefits later. Is that you?
Instead of saluting the efforts of others to make things better, you advocate, even encourage, doing nothing. That is sad. The only one that doesn’t get the point is you. You should just thank everyone that is trying and then go away.

Forest Service 307-745-2300
There is a comment form in the "contact us"section.

Albany County Sheriff 307 721 2526 Danny Ponds is the Sheriff, ask for him.

 

[sevenmacs]

Impact is the name of this thread and it needs to be controled because:
1. a lot of it gets dangerous with kids and adults alike, blowing through the community at high speeds prior to getting to the forest boundary
2. folks blocking the entrance to the fire station, emergency personnel, and private entrances
3. And some chaos at the parking lot.
4. And if my opinion of speed limits was unknown, there should be one and radar controlled if necessary, going through the community of Albany for all vehicles.

Albany Mountain your issues listed above are very different from what everyone else has been ranting & raving about. they may have been mixed in, but have gotten lost with all the bull****. These are legit concerns and should be dealt with. I would support you 100% in addressing these issues. As a former Police officer of 20 years, I'm well aware of your concerns listed, as these are definte public safety issues. If we deal with the important issues and then many would be with you. Your issues shouldn't be a problem for the Sheriffs Office to handle and should be addressed, from a law enforcement standpoint.

But all I'm hearing is people complaining because someone isn't parking properly, large rigs taking up to much space, people with motorhomes & RV camping. Yes these are also legit concerns, but not to the level its been talked up. Then theres the overnight parking issue, wow this is a real problem, attacking cabin owners with comments "like you knew you couldn't access your land when you bought it". Yes this is real constructive comments, Impact hasn't been the issue. No as I said before, most of it is people jealous of what others have and can do. If your concerns get grouped with the others they loose creditbility.

As a land/cabin owner 7 miles above Albany I have spoken with the forest service and was told they have no problem with land owners leaving a vehicle for several nights in the parking lot. I no longer park there because I leave my trailer in Albany for the season, otherwise I would still use the lot.

Now on to rockdog, obviously you haven't been reading the posts because I have read them and did comment back on page 2, #76 and since when do you have the right to regulate who and when people can comment. Your also wrong on my having experience dealing with issues with the forest service. Several years ago one of our favorite places to Hunt/camp & ATV became more popular and people began complaining just like this, the forest service took notice of the increased use and came in and closed down areas that had been open for over 75 years or more, just because of the attention drawn to it. Yes we spent many hours with phone calls, meetings etc. , didn't work.

Also I have been PM'd by other members who have commented on staying away from this thread because of the attacks of many. Yes I choose to stir the pot, because it needed stiring. Hopefully others may chime in without fear of being run off by some of the people on this thread. They may agree or they may not, I don't care, I'm not looking for support, don't need it.

Sorry for being so long winded, I've said my peace now you can have this thread and continue to rant & rave, good luck and to the guy from Kansas in the motorhome who posted at the beginning, keep coming and do your own thing, you are welcome, its your land too.

 

[Ollie]

sevenmacs, so here you come into a thread that had been turned into a constructive info sharing, idea sharing thread and try to destroy it.

Way to go nimrod.

And if anyone else has and CONSTRUCTIVE input.
Put it up.

And no, I don't care if you don't like the fact people are upset with idiots taking up 3 or 4 slots. No I don't care if you don't like the fact day users are pizzed because people come in there and camp out for 3 or 4 days and take up 4 or 5 slots.

We are trying to come up with ideas and plans that can be presented to the forest service to remedy the problems and concerns. But hey, go right ahead and piss and moan because you don't like us talking about the problems in the lot.

And if rockdog's posts upset you, take a mydal and don't worry about it.

 

[Ollie]

Respectfully, I never said this, Respective of your input and inquiry of hidden agendas, I gave to you.

I can't say I am looking forward to any more input, but do as you please.

Actually, that was aimed at me.

 

[rockdog2112]

Impact is the name of this thread and it needs to be controled because:
1. a lot of it gets dangerous with kids and adults alike, blowing through the community at high speeds prior to getting to the forest boundary
2. folks blocking the entrance to the fire station, emergency personnel, and private entrances
3. And some chaos at the parking lot.
4. And if my opinion of speed limits was unknown, there should be one and radar controlled if necessary, going through the community of Albany for all vehicles.

Albany Mountain your issues listed above are very different from what everyone else has been ranting & raving about. they may have been mixed in, but have gotten lost with all the bull****. These are legit concerns and should be dealt with. I would support you 100% in addressing these issues. As a former Police officer of 20 years, I'm well aware of your concerns listed, as these are definte public safety issues. If we deal with the important issues and then many would be with you. Your issues shouldn't be a problem for the Sheriffs Office to handle and should be addressed, from a law enforcement standpoint.

But all I'm hearing is people complaining because someone isn't parking properly, large rigs taking up to much space, people with motorhomes & RV camping. Yes these are also legit concerns, but not to the level its been talked up. Then theres the overnight parking issue, wow this is a real problem, attacking cabin owners with comments "like you knew you couldn't access your land when you bought it". Yes this is real constructive comments, Impact hasn't been the issue. No as I said before, most of it is people jealous of what others have and can do. If your concerns get grouped with the others they loose creditbility.

As a land/cabin owner 7 miles above Albany I have spoken with the forest service and was told they have no problem with land owners leaving a vehicle for several nights in the parking lot. I no longer park there because I leave my trailer in Albany for the season, otherwise I would still use the lot.

Now on to rockdog, obviously you haven't been reading the posts because I have read them and did comment back on page 2, #76 and since when do you have the right to regulate who and when people can comment. Your also wrong on my having experience dealing with issues with the forest service. Several years ago one of our favorite places to Hunt/camp & ATV became more popular and people began complaining just like this, the forest service took notice of the increased use and came in and closed down areas that had been open for over 75 years or more, just because of the attention drawn to it. Yes we spent many hours with phone calls, meetings etc. , didn't work.

Also I have been PM'd by other members who have commented on staying away from this thread because of the attacks of many. Yes I choose to stir the pot, because it needed stiring. Hopefully others may chime in without fear of being run off by some of the people on this thread. They may agree or they may not, I don't care, I'm not looking for support, don't need it.

Sorry for being so long winded, I've said my peace now you can have this thread and continue to rant & rave, good luck and to the guy from Kansas in the motorhome who posted at the beginning, keep coming and do your own thing, you are welcome, its your land too.

Don’t go away yet sevenmacks. You may have some valid points. What you fail to give is a suggestion about how to fix the problem. Right or wrong, people are offering suggestions. What’s yours? Mine is to enforce the existing rules. For all its faults, it’s my opinion and I stand by it. The beginning tone of you posts alienate most people that would listen and then you are upset because people react. I highly doubt that I (or anyone else) have the power to “regulate” any conversation on this thread, including you. I find it very convenient that “many” others PM you worried about speaking their mind on this thread. Especially when your involvement on this thread has been limited at best. If any of you have PM’d, please acknowledge and I’ll stand corrected. I also find your story about your favorite spot so vague and ambiguous that it’s hard to believe (exactly what was that area and when did all this happen? Back it up with some facts). But it is convenient for your argument. Whatever that is. I’m still not sure what you stand for on this thread. If that one lost battle took the fight out of you, then that is very unfortunate.
You have made it abundantly clear that you are a property owner with land above Albany and pay more taxes than the rest of us. (Referring to your post #72). It was insulting that you think you are entitled to more than anyone else. Do your property taxes fund the maintenance of the Forest Service parking lot? I may be wrong, but I don’t think so. That’s federal money. I also find it disturbing that rangers have told you that it’s “okay” for you to park overnight because you own land above Albany. If they do, then they are not doing their jobs and are part of the problem. Who else do they excuse? Unfortunately, I don't doubt this happens. By doing that, only a select few benefit and that’s not right and as a former law enforcement officer, you know that.
Your arrogance is incredible. “most of it is people jealous of what others have and can do” (a quote from your last post). Do many of us wish we had land up there? Damn right. I do. I would think that a solution to this situation would benefit everyone. Landowner or not. As for what you “can do”, It once again seems that you choose to do little or nothing because it doesn’t benefit you or you are afraid of what you might lose and you would have others do the same. Most of us don’t have private parking yet so I guess we are the one that really stand to lose something, not you. There is nothing wrong with stirring the pot; I just think you should back it with a possible solution.
One more thing sevenmacks, don’t pawn this off like it’s some issue with out of state folks. You know it’s not. You are deflecting the issue. It’s every ones land. Everyone is welcome, everyone follow the rules (even you and me). It's not an unfair request. Don't go away, offer something. It would be appreciated, questioned, and maybe scrutinized. So has everyone else’s suggestion.

Forest Service 307-745-2300
There is a comment form in the "contact us"section.

Albany County Sheriff 307 721 2526 Danny Ponds is the Sheriff, ask for him.
__________________

 

[Snow Fox]

Well Said, Rock Dog.

Too add: I didn't know that standing up with a voice was such a bad thing. To many people worry about consequences because of this liberal environment we have to live in. I would rather be heard, than be quiet and let my rights be taken away without a fight.