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Well thought out Rockdog!! Its getting to the point that I wouldn't know what to say in regards to Sevenmacs.
Never the less, we are powerless to the most degree in doing anything on our own. The Forest Service is the party in charge. They have closed some campgrounds and have volunteers take care of most the others, but this is how they operate in this day and age. They seem to be reliant on outside funding but responsive.
Wyoming Trails staff said that they are looking at providing grants for enforcement of trails. This would be helpful to go into the winter season as well. It will be one of the main drivers in getting this done.
Doing nothing fuels the fire. I am confident that one of the attractions of the MED BOW forest is the lack of enforcement. And those who can't ride responsibly (or park responsibly) love to come up here.
I was involved in another venture utilizing public land for public recreation. We had to deal with the city council. All were supportive, but one (and I believe the mayor at that time) kept insisting that we accomodiate the type of users that created the original problems that resulted in our group being formed.
I used other reasoning and probably didn't satisfy his whims (but we got er done). But what I really wanted to use was to use, was a different scenario:
There was a clear warm pond located on the edge of town.
We as kids swam in it all the time. Now town has grown and more and more people use it all the time because the town has no pool. However as the lazier users used the pond, they wouldn't even get out to Urinate or other pleasures. Soon the pond became a serious health threat and the City wanted to go ahead and build a new pool. A committee was formed that received funding, built plans for the kiddie pool, the hot tub, and toilets. Unfortunately, the mayor was closely associated with the lazier users and felt that segregating a portion of the pool with a rope would allow the lazier users to continue doing what they were doing before while the responsible public could get out of the pool and walk to the toilets. Obviously this isn't going to work as S**t knows no boundrys and would just float across contaiminating the portion that the responsible users would utilize.
I need to throw another fact in regarding parking fees (a comment was made about that). The Lake Owen parking area was the first to start charging fees in this area, due to the new Rail Train built at the entrance. Of course, after contributing really no money towards the 23 mile trail I am guessing that some bicyclists were devistated about having to pay the $5 fee.
Never the less, we are powerless to the most degree in doing anything on our own. The Forest Service is the party in charge. They have closed some campgrounds and have volunteers take care of most the others, but this is how they operate in this day and age. They seem to be reliant on outside funding but responsive.
Wyoming Trails staff said that they are looking at providing grants for enforcement of trails. This would be helpful to go into the winter season as well. It will be one of the main drivers in getting this done.
Doing nothing fuels the fire. I am confident that one of the attractions of the MED BOW forest is the lack of enforcement. And those who can't ride responsibly (or park responsibly) love to come up here.
I was involved in another venture utilizing public land for public recreation. We had to deal with the city council. All were supportive, but one (and I believe the mayor at that time) kept insisting that we accomodiate the type of users that created the original problems that resulted in our group being formed.
I used other reasoning and probably didn't satisfy his whims (but we got er done). But what I really wanted to use was to use, was a different scenario:
There was a clear warm pond located on the edge of town.
We as kids swam in it all the time. Now town has grown and more and more people use it all the time because the town has no pool. However as the lazier users used the pond, they wouldn't even get out to Urinate or other pleasures. Soon the pond became a serious health threat and the City wanted to go ahead and build a new pool. A committee was formed that received funding, built plans for the kiddie pool, the hot tub, and toilets. Unfortunately, the mayor was closely associated with the lazier users and felt that segregating a portion of the pool with a rope would allow the lazier users to continue doing what they were doing before while the responsible public could get out of the pool and walk to the toilets. Obviously this isn't going to work as S**t knows no boundrys and would just float across contaiminating the portion that the responsible users would utilize.
I need to throw another fact in regarding parking fees (a comment was made about that). The Lake Owen parking area was the first to start charging fees in this area, due to the new Rail Train built at the entrance. Of course, after contributing really no money towards the 23 mile trail I am guessing that some bicyclists were devistated about having to pay the $5 fee.
You know what Albany Mnt, you get a bunch of folks identifying a problem (not that it was hard in this case) and then kicking around some ideas and rattling a few chains and the next thing you know, something starts to happen for the good. It may take a few years and the gains may be small but that beats the hell out of being complacent or afraid of confronting it. No action is the worst course of action. According to Steve May (Forest Service Law enforcement Officer) people have been calling which has led to increased visits and the handing out of citations for at least the lack of paying for the permits. It's a start and kudos to anyone that made a call. Don't stop. Keep making those calls in a nice, polite manner, expressing your concern over all the issues that pertain to all the lots such as camping, overnight usage, crowding, unsafe behavior, or any legitimate concerns you have.
Once again-Forest Service 307-745-2300
There is a comment form in the "contact us" section
Albany County Sheriff 307 721 2526 Danny Ponds is the Sheriff, ask for him
Once again-Forest Service 307-745-2300
There is a comment form in the "contact us" section
Albany County Sheriff 307 721 2526 Danny Ponds is the Sheriff, ask for him
Without the "pressure" or fine wines in our case, they will continue to continue. I don't want to make any enemies here but on the other hand, when I am honest and present facts, I make 'em anyway (and I acknowledge all the apologys Thanks).
The ball keeps rolling here. As I said before, Albany is a paradise while being a recreational epicenter for many sports with the exception of cross country skiing (as the terrain really isn't that well suited).
I keep involved because I live here. Yes, there is National Forest abound and I border it in several places. And there isn't really anything that anyone does here that I haven't done as a teenager (Yauuuuugh 36 years ago). But that was alright. And it still is alright with those responsible (and there are a TON of them) for their own actions. But unfortunately, there are those (and I love the taxpayer defense) that think they are entitled to do what ever, and in this case, act like idiots in the parking lot or in the surrounding area. I pay the same amount of taxes as everyone else, I am privilaged to live here, and as a last thought, I see people paying taxes here (on the railroad easement) that can not even use their own land because the '83 congress decided that the landowners rights are secondary and give the property rights to groups that cannot support theirselves.(AND PLEASE, IF ANYONE WANTS TO GET INTO THAT, LETS START A NEW THREAD).
So as time permits, I will do whats right in my mind for Albany while not 'BRANDING' the snowmobile community for what "positive" impact has resulted. However, Taxpayers, Forest Service, Wyoming Trails have some responsiblity for acting responsibly, and the negative impact needs to be addressed for the benefit of the sport and the demise of those that don't see the issues.
Good day in Albany today, a little snow, I helped pull the emergency truck out of the stationhouse and snowblew him out, and WHILE ON PATROL (7macs), felt that the parking lot was just dandy today.
And one way to keep the ball rolling is to post pictures
of offenders here as I have from last year in front of Albany Lodge. This is taken place as many taxpayers are in revolt and not paying the $5 fee.
The ball keeps rolling here. As I said before, Albany is a paradise while being a recreational epicenter for many sports with the exception of cross country skiing (as the terrain really isn't that well suited).
I keep involved because I live here. Yes, there is National Forest abound and I border it in several places. And there isn't really anything that anyone does here that I haven't done as a teenager (Yauuuuugh 36 years ago). But that was alright. And it still is alright with those responsible (and there are a TON of them) for their own actions. But unfortunately, there are those (and I love the taxpayer defense) that think they are entitled to do what ever, and in this case, act like idiots in the parking lot or in the surrounding area. I pay the same amount of taxes as everyone else, I am privilaged to live here, and as a last thought, I see people paying taxes here (on the railroad easement) that can not even use their own land because the '83 congress decided that the landowners rights are secondary and give the property rights to groups that cannot support theirselves.
(AND PLEASE, IF ANYONE WANTS TO GET INTO THAT, LETS START A NEW THREAD).So as time permits, I will do whats right in my mind for Albany while not 'BRANDING' the snowmobile community for what "positive" impact has resulted. However, Taxpayers, Forest Service, Wyoming Trails have some responsiblity for acting responsibly, and the negative impact needs to be addressed for the benefit of the sport and the demise of those that don't see the issues.
Good day in Albany today, a little snow, I helped pull the emergency truck out of the stationhouse and snowblew him out, and WHILE ON PATROL
(7macs), felt that the parking lot was just dandy today.And one way to keep the ball rolling is to post pictures
of offenders here as I have from last year in front of Albany Lodge. This is taken place as many taxpayers are in revolt and not paying the $5 fee.
A
Anti-Hero
ACCOUNT CLOSED
I bought an annual parking permit today, I was thinking that if i could get the OK from the forest service i could use crayon on the parking sign to draw directions for the special people, maybe use A-cup hill for a reference point, i assume that all the special people know where A-cup hill is. No but really parking today was not that bad.
Without the "pressure" or fine wines in our case, they will continue to continue. I don't want to make any enemies here but on the other hand, when I am honest and present facts, I make 'em anyway (and I acknowledge all the apologys Thanks).
The ball keeps rolling here. As I said before, Albany is a paradise while being a recreational epicenter for many sports with the exception of cross country skiing (as the terrain really isn't that well suited).
I keep involved because I live here. Yes, there is National Forest abound and I border it in several places. And there isn't really anything that anyone does here that I haven't done as a teenager (Yauuuuugh 36 years ago). But that was alright. And it still is alright with those responsible (and there are a TON of them) for their own actions. But unfortunately, there are those (and I love the taxpayer defense) that think they are entitled to do what ever, and in this case, act like idiots in the parking lot or in the surrounding area. I pay the same amount of taxes as everyone else, I am privilaged to live here, and as a last thought, I see people paying taxes here (on the railroad easement) that can not even use their own land because the '83 congress decided that the landowners rights are secondary and give the property rights to groups that cannot support theirselves.
So as time permits, I will do whats right in my mind for Albany while not 'BRANDING' the snowmobile community for what "positive" impact has resulted. However, Taxpayers, Forest Service, Wyoming Trails have some responsiblity for acting responsibly, and the negative impact needs to be addressed for the benefit of the sport and the demise of those that don't see the issues.
Good day in Albany today, a little snow, I helped pull the emergency truck out of the stationhouse and snowblew him out, and WHILE ON PATROL
And one way to keep the ball rolling is to post pictures
Nice photo Albany Mountain! Anti-hero, Great suggestion! I hope it's okay next weekend because I'm going to be back at it.
Albany Mountain, Rock Dog and Ollie
Thanks for your constructive and meaningful comments.
Albany Mtn. thanks for your Patrol Work- keep it up!!
Thanks for your constructive and meaningful comments.
Albany Mtn. thanks for your Patrol Work- keep it up!!
Does it make a Difference??
It makes a lot of difference if their together or have talked to each other, what is your point of the picture
did you talk to either party?
It makes a lot of difference if their together or have talked to each other, what is your point of the picture
Musta been a long two day conversation in the middle of the highway that I did't take part in.
Parking Sign
So I have been reading through this thread every few days and have been thinking...Isn't there a sign there still that tells people how to park? (image to park in vertical lines in the middle then parallel to the outside edges, or something of that nature I can't remember what it says) If it is still there can't we police ourselves ? Its a parking lot, not rocket science...I mean if you see someone that isn't parking appropriately according to the sign just go up and talk to them about it. To me this seems like it would be a lot better way to spend your time instead of endlessly calling the forest service or local authorities (and ruffling their feathers when its not needed) when you could take care of the problem yourself by simply going to the few people that park inapropriately and solve the problem then and there.
And I know the suggestion of regulating it yourself has been brought up, but in reality, that is the best solution and probably the most effective. I think the local law enforcement probably has better things to deal with than if you are "parked in the lines". (like deal with the thefts of snowmobile parts/accesories in the area).
So I have been reading through this thread every few days and have been thinking...Isn't there a sign there still that tells people how to park? (image to park in vertical lines in the middle then parallel to the outside edges, or something of that nature I can't remember what it says) If it is still there can't we police ourselves ? Its a parking lot, not rocket science...I mean if you see someone that isn't parking appropriately according to the sign just go up and talk to them about it. To me this seems like it would be a lot better way to spend your time instead of endlessly calling the forest service or local authorities (and ruffling their feathers when its not needed) when you could take care of the problem yourself by simply going to the few people that park inapropriately and solve the problem then and there.
And I know the suggestion of regulating it yourself has been brought up, but in reality, that is the best solution and probably the most effective. I think the local law enforcement probably has better things to deal with than if you are "parked in the lines". (like deal with the thefts of snowmobile parts/accesories in the area).
Why post pix when only you know that?
Not sure where we are going with this but it's a fair question. Lets face the fact that this is in the middle of a State highway with some parking area alongside. The winter lot had vacant spaces.
Parking like this is probably why the snow plow driver didn't plow the end of the highway for 2 days.
Parking like this is one reason the mail carrier (contractor) could chose not to deliver our mail as they are not required to get out of the car.
Parking like this prevents the Volunteer Fire department (or the Laramie Fire department) from accessing residences that may be in need of their support (and we donate heavily towards this volunteer unit)
Parking like this prevents rigs and trailers getting gas at the pump.
Parking like this prevents the emergency crews from staging the deputys, rescue workers with sleds and the ambulance at an area close to the firehouse and lodge where supplies are available.
Parking like this provides a major obstacle for many coming off of FS500 too fast on the snow and ice.
Thats about it, and I don't want to be hostile with this with you but I am sure that these issues don't even cross many minds whether they are out of state or not. But living here, a balance of recreational users and residences some days gets a little out of wack. Signage seems appropriate around here but how much is enough and how much is too much? Like I said before, the beauty of Albany attracts many and more are coming. And I am sure that the lack of "regulations" and "regulators" has some appeal as well. That is why I am fortunate and chose to live here. For those who are fortunate to visit, surely does not look at it in this detail, but neverless, they are guests of their forest lands and hopefully do not disrupt others enjoying the same privilage.
Do I want to track down every instance of "ignorance" or whatever we want to call it? NO! Its not my job on Public Land. Most don't research the winter parking lot's location and the location of the Forest lands where people can "have at it and do what you want". And I have stopped people to tell them that when they are somewhat dislocated or misunderstood and standing or riding rough on private property(s). Most don't know (and I wouldn't expect you to know) that to get from the lot to the forest boundary, you will cross no less than 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9,10 private properties. But they are here and I am here and it is a delicate balance to maintain. I smile at most and take a couple pictures of whoever. Its hard to argue against. I don't expect agreement with this but hopefully it will give you and others a better understanding because we don't have the stop signs, stop lights, parking police that others and perhaps yourself would have in your home town, not matter where you live.
Boy I can't agree with you more that the law enforcement has better things to do. Especially in Albany County which is a large county with a good portion in rough terrain. And with the tax base in Albany County, a tough budget to deal with. Through in the fact that the city police salarys are more attractive, the county gets stuck training officers that later go to the city.
Self regulation is the key because law enforcement doesn’t have the time or manpower. The problem is that some folks will not regulate themselves and don’t feel they have too for whatever reason. Unfortunately, this thread is filled with those reasons. Some are more valid than others. If folks would “self regulate”, we wouldn’t be discussing why or why not people are following the rules like earlier, but rather a continuation of the discussion on what can be done to organize the facility.
Let’s define the term “self regulate”. Does this mean that we as individuals modify and adjust our own personal behavior and follow the existing rules and regulation (whether we agree with them or not)? This is the only thing that we as individuals can be responsible and accountable for. Or, does it mean that we, (law abiding members of the sledding community that are not affiliated with law enforcement or the Forest Service) attempt to regulate those who are unable or unwilling to do it themselves? That responsibility falls to the governing bodies of that facility, not individual “non sworn in” citizens. If a law enforcement or Forest Service official asks an offender to comply with a law and they refuse, then he/she has the authority to issue a citation or take some kind of lawful action. Most of us do not have that authority and it shouldn’t be asked of us. What we can do is keep an “eye out” or be a "conduit to" these agencies. That is what I believe my responsibility to be. I also believe others should carry that responsibility.
Albany Mountain’s posting of that photo needs no defense. It’s indicative of the entire parking situation at Albany and I don’t see how anyone can defend what it shows. That’s just “splitting hairs”. Maybe that’s what we all should do. Post an “Offender of the Week” photo. I don’t think some people understand the scope of the problem.
Right now some folks have no motivation to comply because there is not much of a consequence. Steve May (Forest Service Law Enforcement Officer) says more citations will be issued and “signage issues” will be addressed at their next meeting. We’ll see and I hope so. I’m not trying to offend anyone here. This is just my opinion.
It does not hurt to call and express your concerns.
Forest Service 307-745-2300
There is a comment form in the "contact us"section.
Albany County Sheriff 307 721 2526 Danny Ponds is the Sheriff, ask for him.
__________________
Let’s define the term “self regulate”. Does this mean that we as individuals modify and adjust our own personal behavior and follow the existing rules and regulation (whether we agree with them or not)? This is the only thing that we as individuals can be responsible and accountable for. Or, does it mean that we, (law abiding members of the sledding community that are not affiliated with law enforcement or the Forest Service) attempt to regulate those who are unable or unwilling to do it themselves? That responsibility falls to the governing bodies of that facility, not individual “non sworn in” citizens. If a law enforcement or Forest Service official asks an offender to comply with a law and they refuse, then he/she has the authority to issue a citation or take some kind of lawful action. Most of us do not have that authority and it shouldn’t be asked of us. What we can do is keep an “eye out” or be a "conduit to" these agencies. That is what I believe my responsibility to be. I also believe others should carry that responsibility.
Albany Mountain’s posting of that photo needs no defense. It’s indicative of the entire parking situation at Albany and I don’t see how anyone can defend what it shows. That’s just “splitting hairs”. Maybe that’s what we all should do. Post an “Offender of the Week” photo. I don’t think some people understand the scope of the problem.
Right now some folks have no motivation to comply because there is not much of a consequence. Steve May (Forest Service Law Enforcement Officer) says more citations will be issued and “signage issues” will be addressed at their next meeting. We’ll see and I hope so. I’m not trying to offend anyone here. This is just my opinion.
It does not hurt to call and express your concerns.
Forest Service 307-745-2300
There is a comment form in the "contact us"section.
Albany County Sheriff 307 721 2526 Danny Ponds is the Sheriff, ask for him.
__________________
Either does complaining about it. What's your suggestion?
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