850 gone down already??

[indydan]

Dan
What's your take on the single ring piston used in the 850? Will you still use it or try to find something with 2 rings?

Oh I think one ring is just perfectly fine. i have no problem with 1 ring.

If the motor has good enough cooling one ring is good to me.

That being said, the Long Rod Warthog Turbo motor we are building will have twin rings.... only because the math works on the firing edge of the piston in relation to the cylinder shim.

Dan

 

[indydan]

Another sincere question, why would the oil line blow off if the hole was blocked? If there were 4 other lines going to the engine wouldn't the flow just move to the other lines. I could see if all were dead headed then one would blow off due to excessive pressure. Or I could see it blowing off if it was the only line off of the pump.

Not sure about this on the new electric pump but on the old mechaical pumps
you couldn't plug them you had to loop them into another line with a ( T )

Different lines supposely put out different volume which leads one to beleive they are complete seperate. ( but i don't have facts on that )

Dan

 

[volcano buster]

My Edge 700 had different flow rates for different ports. No reason these "newer" engines from the same manufacturer would be any different.

 

[MKULTRA]

My Edge 700 had different flow rates for different ports. No reason these "newer" engines from the same manufacturer would be any different.

how do they do that? restrictor plates or orifices?

 

[volcano buster]

how do they do that? restrictor plates or orifices?

I believe it was orifice size in the pump body. Been a while.

 

[Mafesto]

I believe it was orifice size in the pump body. Been a while.

I doubt that.
I've seen girls with all sizes of orifices and flow was never a problem with any of them.
But let's get back to snowmobile engines.

 

[aksledjunkie]

Hiiiiiiiiiii


I'm back from Revelstoke and just read this entire thread. Holy hell does my boss hate me now. First day back to work in 3 weeks and I spent 2 hours reading 1 thread on Snowest haha.


850 ran phenomenal down there in Revy for a solid 6 days straight, and then something happened because my temp sensor went through the roof and said my sled was almost 300*.


I swapped sensors with the other 850 to see if it was just a faulty sensor but no luck. Sled fired right up and VERY QUICKLY gained temperature. I haven't yet located a bleed for this sled so used the temp sensor as a bleed to clear any hidden air bubbles. It seemed like that was the problem so I then took the sled for another trip across the parking lot and BOOM, after 15 seconds sled went from 60* to 284*. Jumped faster than I could hit the kill switch. Cracked the temp sensor again and hot air came hissing out. Note that exhaust was barely warm to the bare hand. Engine was scalding hot though.


So now I'm guessing I have a cracked cylinder or failed o-ring. My concern is, if it's just an o-ring, what caused it to fail coming down the trail at the end of day 6 of riding. Wondering if there might be another hidden issue.


Side note, I have a oil leak somewhere that I cannot find. All hoses appear to still be connected. Sled will be dropped off at the dealer tonight and we will go from there. Been riding my other 850 and no issues there yet!!

 

[RMK-King]

Dan, what is your thoughts on the PVD coating on the ring? It seems to me Polaris is claiming the PVD coating is the reason they went with a more aggressive hone vs the 800. Is PVD that much stronger that they don't think the Nikasil will wear it down?

 

[indydan]

Dan, what is your thoughts on the PVD coating on the ring? It seems to me Polaris is claiming the PVD coating is the reason they went with a more aggressive hone vs the 800. Is PVD that much stronger that they don't think the Nikasil will wear it down?

RMK- K...... I really hope you are right.

I sell around qty-400 Oem 800 small block Pistons per season and about 300 cylinders.... And after all the DETAILS it's not a enjoyable feel good sale.

I would much rather the customers could save their money on top-end kits and buy more fun performance stuff.

At $309.00 retail for an 850 Piston I am sure hoping they last a long long time and we can all work on fun performance parts.

Silicon Carbide is brutally strong stuff..... If the piston & rings last I be more then pleased to eat crow on the cylinder finish.

Dan

 

[kanedog]

last week ADDIE / Kelsey called the shop and said this bickering needs to stop between us.

He then said I am ADDIE but i am not " indydansucks " and he asked me to come here and clear this up on this thread.

After what i call a long long conversation...... and lots of back and forth which i am sure we both felt was not getting anywhere.

I am pretty sure we both agreed it would be best for the sport of snowmobiling if we just stopped bickering all together.

So that all being said i am going to say Kelsey was not and is not ( user name ) - " indydansucks "

This is a gentalmens agreement.

Life is to short for this childs play.

Time to move forward.

Dan

I am kinda disappointed that Dan and Kelsey are not going to beat on each other. Two guys with helmets on throwing down trailside could be good for 1,000,000 views for sure. Even though they might be white, fat, old, balding and tired, a Facebook live feed of the event woulda been fun times. I am whiteoldfatbalding too.

 

[Devilmanak]

I am white. Getting old. And fat. But my balding is from shaving. Can I get in on this?

 

[revrider07]

I am kinda disappointed that Dan and Kelsey are not going to beat on each other. Two guys with helmets on throwing down trailside could be good for 1,000,000 views for sure. Even though they might be white, fat, old, balding and tired, a Facebook live feed of the event woulda been fun times. I am whiteoldfatbalding too.

Maybe we could set it up on a pay per view to help out the 850 patriot owners

 

[snowmobiler]

.

 

[indydan]

New 850 crank

attachments below.


Here is a few pics of my new flatlander 850 crank showing the assembly bearing position.

I will post top-end pics in the new post.

Dan

 

[indydan]

New 850 Top-end pictures

See attachments below.


Here are a few pics of the top-end with 1 tenth of a mile.

It doesn't look like the Red super Polaris racing oil in the motor is providing much protection for my pistons at $309.00 each.

I will try and post a few pics of the cylinder HG7 Honing and the bearing and case machining if i get time.



Dan

 

[raleigh111]

RMK- K...... I really hope you are right.

Silicon Carbide is brutally strong stuff..... If the piston & rings last I be more then pleased to eat crow on the cylinder finish.

Dan

That was my initial thought as well. Mahle has been using this in diesel applications for several years. Hard to compare there results vs nik cylinders. Claim is higher wear resistance! Hardness of the coating: 800 - 1400 HV 0.1? Maybe it will take 1500 miles to smooth the cylinders down and you can re ring and be good vs 5000 miles as long as your crank bearing stay in one spot. In other words we as the consumer get to finish hone our cylinders with these rings.lol. In all honesty i am not sure why we have to go out on a limb with a new motor and experiment when we have tried and true stuff that works? Would the motor be that much less if we had more suitable crank bearing and standard rings? Would it still make 170 hp. New technology/process can be great and can be a curse. The 10 minute youtube video with the 2 yaahoos talking about all the new features of this motor would of been a lot shorter and so would this thread.

 

[indydan]

That was my initial thought as well. Mahle has been using this in diesel applications for several years. Hard to compare there results vs nik cylinders. Claim is higher wear resistance! Hardness of the coating: 800 - 1400 HV 0.1? Maybe it will take 1500 miles to smooth the cylinders down and you can re ring and be good vs 5000 miles as long as your crank bearing stay in one spot. In other words we as the consumer get to finish hone our cylinders with these rings.lol. In all honesty i am not sure why we have to go out on a limb with a new motor and experiment when we have tried and true stuff that works? Would the motor be that much less if we had more suitable crank bearing and standard rings? Would it still make 170 hp. New technology/process can be great and can be a curse. The 10 minute youtube video with the 2 yaahoos talking about all the new features of this motor would of been a lot shorter and so would this thread.

I'll take an educated guess and say that the Piston & rings in the 2013 thru 2017 800 small blocks are going to last much longer then the 2019 850 Piston & Rings.

This spring & summer i will be able to see the difference between the Factory cylinder finish verses our finish.

Mark my word...... if hard starting contiunes after they are broke in and the leak down % goes up we all know what happened.

Ohhhh.... and I commend the shop owner doing a video for polaris.

As for the content of the video its horrible. ( Polaris white collar finest. )

I have never had to do that to a Polaris EFI...... and guess i will never.

Taking the plugs out and pulling the rope is RETARDED !! If you forget the kill switch it could be a real bad deal if lets say an injector stuck open and the case was full.

I will say this........ don't do anything in the video.

( Remove the belt.... Have someone hold the throttle wide open and pull it ) the nano second you hear it fire let the throttle off.

If its flooded it will be to loaded up to over rev right away.

Dan

 

[BobRoss?]

See attachments below.


Here are a few pics of the top-end with 1 tenth of a mile.

It doesn't look like the Red super Polaris racing oil in the motor is providing much protection for my pistons at $309.00 each.

I will try and post a few pics of the cylinder HG7 Honing and the bearing and case machining if i get time.



Dan

What is with the circles of no coating on the pistons?

 

[ADDIE]

IMO, the single ring will prove to be problematic as will the design of the piston as a whole.

The skirt coating is there for break in running and is designed to take some abuse.

Time will tell on the overall longevity of this engine as a whole. As it looks now, the cylinder is the best part of the engine. We'll see how the rest of the components last (or not).

Oil quantity and oil design is critical to any of these components lasting. I believe there is a new oil Polaris is recommending.

 

[JJ_0909]

I will say this........ don't do anything in the video.

( Remove the belt.... Have someone hold the throttle wide open and pull it ) the nano second you hear it fire let the throttle off.

If its flooded it will be to loaded up to over rev right away.

Dan

Agreed. I've had my sled do this a few times already. This is how you fix it - minus the whole taking the belt off thing (just pay attention!)