That's true except the one in the picture might not have spun in the case until after it made contact to the inner web and then it spun it in the case.
850 gone down already??
- Thread starter ANTHONY11
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That's true except the one in the picture might not have spun in the case until after it made contact to the inner web and then it spun it in the case.
N
This is the true statement that just boggles my mind....
"Polaris has been building **** engines for long enough for Dan to have built a very successful business fixing them for people. But yet, they continue to grow. Evidently Polaris understands the market they are selling to and that market is willling to buy a crappy product, spend a bunch of money to fix it, and then come back year after year and buy more **** from them. "
I personally bailed on them when I found out I couldn't get two reliable seasons out of a $12,000 machine. Not sure who finds that acceptable and keeps sending them money but it isn't a model that works for me.
Then all of the defenders of the brand.... seriously? They have screwed so many people so many times I honestly do not know how they stay in business at all. The 900 and 800 dragon should be lessons but many of those buyers are back for more defending the next big bomb from Polaris. Good Luck to you but you will likely get what you deserve for not paying attention to past performance. <!-- / message -->
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I know you don’t want to hear this, but your experience is anecdotal. There are lots of people with 2+ years on boosted Polaris sleds without any major issues. My father is a flatlander, but he would swear up and down the 800HO in the Axys is the most reliable sled ever made. He has over 16,000 combined miles on 2 different Axys switchbacks and has done nothing but change 2 belts and add oil. He’s not brand loyal, has wrecked them all and will not hesitate to take his 7000+ mile Axys into the Canadian bush. Also consider Polaris is in a lot of other markets and sleds are <10% of their business.
Edit: he was apprehensive about the 850 as he puts a lot of trust in his sled and did not purchase the first year
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No comparison, 163 RMK and shorties do not take the same abuse. Which is why Polaris released the Axys 800 a year earlier on the shorties, to work out the kinks. 2000 miles on a mountain sled here is a done sled. 2000 on an Eastern shorty is just broken in.
N
It is absolutely a comparison when saying they are total junk / screw people over / should be out of business. I realize the difference in duty cycle as I’ve wrecked it all on my mtn sleds, but do they not serve both markets?
This is the true statement that just boggles my mind....
"Polaris has been building **** engines for long enough for Dan to have built a very successful business fixing them for people. But yet, they continue to grow. Evidently Polaris understands the market they are selling to and that market is willling to buy a crappy product, spend a bunch of money to fix it, and then come back year after year and buy more **** from them. "
I personally bailed on them when I found out I couldn't get two reliable seasons out of a $12,000 machine. Not sure who finds that acceptable and keeps sending them money but it isn't a model that works for me.
Then all of the defenders of the brand.... seriously? They have screwed so many people so many times I honestly do not know how they stay in business at all. The 900 and 800 dragon should be lessons but many of those buyers are back for more defending the next big bomb from Polaris. Good Luck to you but you will likely get what you deserve for not paying attention to past performance. <!-- / message -->
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https://www.snowest.com/forum/post_...8997-6a208e7ca51366bb561fc8c9fe8cd98ffcd9f601
I think those people really hurt or hurt the most by this have already left and are riding something else. I had a few issues wiht early one but was always made whole again by dealer and outstanding warrnty. Last 2 polaris 155's have been no issues. We are the ones that keep buying them based on what we feel works for us. For me is the handling and chassis that keeps me coming back.
You must ride really hard. I also live in idaho and my axys with almost 2000 miles is in near mint condition. These things will easily go 4-5000 miles in the mountains unless you trash them. Yea you will probably have to do a top end but that's cheap in the long run.
I've seen some guys open trailer them no cover drive 800 miles of ice and salt road 4 or 5 times a year. Leave it set outside all summer and bitch it's a bad product when it fails.
Yea I believe in taking very good care of my stuff. It costs way to much not to take care of it. I agree if you treat it like crap it wont last.
N
Let's be honest. There are a lot of people on here who have an ulterior motive, just salivating at the prospect of a defective 850, but the evidence of a defective motor is extremely thin at this point. And no, I'm not talking about indy dan. Just brand loyalists and people who want to be right and see polaris fail and be able to rub it in fan boys faces. Its strangely tribal, but always has been.
My 15 pro gave me 2200 issue free hard mountain miles, which led me to feel confident in 850 with 4 year warranty. I still haven't heard anything negative from anyone else I actually know with one. But hey, if this motor turns out to be crap I'll be the first to eat crow and hop back on ac or brp.
My 15 pro gave me 2200 issue free hard mountain miles, which led me to feel confident in 850 with 4 year warranty. I still haven't heard anything negative from anyone else I actually know with one. But hey, if this motor turns out to be crap I'll be the first to eat crow and hop back on ac or brp.
Heck John...I completely agree with you on all of this. Let's call it a Christmas miracle at this point. What I like is the passion and discussion. And I sincerely wish you and all a Merry Christmas on this epic thread. Maybe it comes to fruition and hopefully I learn more from it...all of is for that matter. The real world discussions and feedback are great.
D
Lots of talk about production costs and going the cheapest route. I am not in production, have no experience in it, and probably never will.
My naive question: did the engineers make a mistake by not including the locking ring, or did they attempt to save cost by going over to a cheaper method of production by changing over the bearing to this style? I suppose to fully understand the cost aspect, we would have to know the approximate costs of each bearing, and go from there. It’s highly doubtful the newest style bearing is specific to Polaris and therefore uniquely expensive alone. The older style would be pretty cheap at this point since ‘regular’ Crank bearings have been around for awhile now, so I’ve heard. Wink wink.
The case would just have to be modified for a pin or locking ring. Can’t imagine drillling a 1/8” deep hole for a locking pin would cost more than about 1/4 penny.
And maybe I’ve missed it along the way but what potential advantages does a non-locking bearing have vs locked? What would they tell us if it wasn’t simply based on cost? I gotta think at some point, cost has to get pushed aside in order to avoid warranty issues and that gamble.
Ok. Off to work to read more. Probably no doing much anyways today at work.
Hope everyone gets blasted here in MN and Wi with the snow storm coming!
Let’s get some miles on, no matter the brand, year, jet engine size, or BNG on your sled this year!
My naive question: did the engineers make a mistake by not including the locking ring, or did they attempt to save cost by going over to a cheaper method of production by changing over the bearing to this style? I suppose to fully understand the cost aspect, we would have to know the approximate costs of each bearing, and go from there. It’s highly doubtful the newest style bearing is specific to Polaris and therefore uniquely expensive alone. The older style would be pretty cheap at this point since ‘regular’ Crank bearings have been around for awhile now, so I’ve heard. Wink wink.
The case would just have to be modified for a pin or locking ring. Can’t imagine drillling a 1/8” deep hole for a locking pin would cost more than about 1/4 penny.
And maybe I’ve missed it along the way but what potential advantages does a non-locking bearing have vs locked? What would they tell us if it wasn’t simply based on cost? I gotta think at some point, cost has to get pushed aside in order to avoid warranty issues and that gamble.
Ok. Off to work to read more. Probably no doing much anyways today at work.
Hope everyone gets blasted here in MN and Wi with the snow storm coming!
Let’s get some miles on, no matter the brand, year, jet engine size, or BNG on your sled this year!
My point is. Bearings that use the crank as inner race , with proper crush and interference ain’t going anywhere. This has been used for decades by hundreds of manufacturers.This all gets blown out of proportion with the internet these days.
I find his 2,000 mile lifespan to be spot on. For guys that ride off-trail, back country riding 100% of the time these "newer" sleds are trashed by the time you get to 2,000 miles.
And I'm not referring to cosmetic stuff, or the way you take care of it. I'm talking about everything is worn out on the sled. Like all the bushings, bearings, shocks, steering, clutches, engine, exhaust, brackets....etc.
They build these sleds so light, and cheap, and with the power they make they just destroy themselves.
Sure you can spend a few grand every off season and rebuild the engine, clutches, and replace every worn out part..... Or send it down the road and get a new one.
Back in the day, total rebuild or sell off every year, rings at 500-1000 miles, just was standard thing to do. 
Cease fire has been reached.
last week ADDIE / Kelsey called the shop and said this bickering needs to stop between us.
He then said I am ADDIE but i am not " indydansucks " and he asked me to come here and clear this up on this thread.
After what i call a long long conversation...... and lots of back and forth which i am sure we both felt was not getting anywhere.
I am pretty sure we both agreed it would be best for the sport of snowmobiling if we just stopped bickering all together.
So that all being said i am going to say Kelsey was not and is not ( user name ) - " indydansucks "
This is a gentalmens agreement.
Life is to short for this childs play.
Time to move forward.
Dan
last week ADDIE / Kelsey called the shop and said this bickering needs to stop between us.
He then said I am ADDIE but i am not " indydansucks " and he asked me to come here and clear this up on this thread.
After what i call a long long conversation...... and lots of back and forth which i am sure we both felt was not getting anywhere.
I am pretty sure we both agreed it would be best for the sport of snowmobiling if we just stopped bickering all together.
So that all being said i am going to say Kelsey was not and is not ( user name ) - " indydansucks "
This is a gentalmens agreement.
Life is to short for this childs play.
Time to move forward.
Dan
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N
I have no dog in this fight, and read every comment for entertainment reasons only until page 16. Then I couldn't take it any more.
Indy Dan is obviously very knowledgeable engine builder. But, what he is stating is HIS OPINION, nothing more. I swear some of you would agree if Indy Dan said the sky was pink. Remember when he shouted from the rooftops not to use synthetic oil??? He lost a lot of credibility with me then. Now, he responds like an adolescent child by making personal attacks against Addie, who he says is Kelsey.
There have been a lot of well thought out responses on this thread that were informative, unfortunately none of them were from Indy Dan.
I have less than 1% of Indy Dan's experience, but I have been around my share of 2-stroke engines. My OPINION is there is absolutely nothing wrong with the honed finish of these cylinders. If there was, every single one would be going down. As far as the bearing, IF the crush is correct and the bearing is located properly there should not be an issue. To me, there seems to be a few engines that may not have been assembled properly. Again, just my OPINION.
Flame away.
Indy Dan is obviously very knowledgeable engine builder. But, what he is stating is HIS OPINION, nothing more. I swear some of you would agree if Indy Dan said the sky was pink. Remember when he shouted from the rooftops not to use synthetic oil??? He lost a lot of credibility with me then. Now, he responds like an adolescent child by making personal attacks against Addie, who he says is Kelsey.
There have been a lot of well thought out responses on this thread that were informative, unfortunately none of them were from Indy Dan.
I have less than 1% of Indy Dan's experience, but I have been around my share of 2-stroke engines. My OPINION is there is absolutely nothing wrong with the honed finish of these cylinders. If there was, every single one would be going down. As far as the bearing, IF the crush is correct and the bearing is located properly there should not be an issue. To me, there seems to be a few engines that may not have been assembled properly. Again, just my OPINION.
Flame away.
I can not speak to the technical aspects of this exact situation as I’ve never been in an 850. I’ve seen decisions made (sometimes very stupid decisions in my opinion) due to manufacturability. Don’t know if that’s the case here, probably not from my limited information on it, but engineers can be driven to design something a certain way due to:
-a supplier having an issue with building the part in a certain way
-extra cost building the part
-assembly (manufacturing) complaining about having issues putting it together right or in an easy and efficient manner
-future serviceability
We had a design that was failing very often that I was in charge of correcting. A bearing issue ironically enough...I wasn’t the engineer, but the project lead (awesome position, zero authority over anyone and dealing with a bunch of “experts”)... we went through 11 or 12 different design iterations trying to correct it with extremely minor adjustments to specs, tolerances, the use of different retaining compounds, etc... very frustrating failing test after test because engineering didn’t think their baby was ugly, parts didn’t want major changes due to the need to scrap a bunch of stock, and the final design that fixed it, manufacturing didn’t like because it added an extra element of assembly and engineering hated because it wasn’t their idea. But after failure 10 or 11 of the tests and months later, senior leaders’ ears perk up and they listen close, get involved, and make damn sure people are willing to work together.
Have a very Merry Christmas as well! I’m sad the storm is going north and mostly missing my farm. It is a little bit ok though since I’m hopping in the pickup headed west in about 2 hours to ride for a week! The wife will be happy she doesn’t have to try and move snow while I’m gone.
Thanks, that was my point, although I didn't explain it.
I am from AK, where it was easy to put on a couple hundred miles of river in a weekend. I figured I put around 10K miles on my 99 MXZX 440 racer.
60 mountain miles is a good weekend here. Most of us get to the hill the shortest way, minimal trail miles.
Friend had a 16 Axys with over 2000 miles, it was taken care off, but very tired. Had already had most of the wear parts replaced. (Clutch at least once, pipe was warrantied, ski bushings, arm bushings, engine mount bushings, etc.) Original engine, which was scary, but he managed to sell it.
Another bud has 2600 on his 16, had the usual electrical problems, but was very well taken care of, replaced clutch at least once, engine mount bushings, fuel injector rail fell off so got a new top end, track ripped in half so was replaced, etc. He was blown away when he got a new 18, how much better it ran.
I part out a lot of sleds, I get them almost 100% locally and the average miles is around 2000. Many of them are closer to 1000. I have had a few that were 4000, but they were pretty much shoveled off the trailer into my shop. I try not to touch anything over 3000. But when doing my Ebay listings, I see guys back east selling parts with 6-7-8-9000 plus miles on them.
I guess it is all in how you/we treat our stuff. $15K is getting a little pricey, for me at least......
H
I'm going out for 3 days,.. Tumbler and Chetwynd,.. i'll post back on the weekend. Should have way more than the 6hrs on my machine by then haha.
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