Wilderness poachers?

[yammadog]

No, why don't you man up and show/tell us what we should do!

What have you done to help protect our areas??

• Helped pick up litter at SnoParks & on the hill?
• Spent your weekend hiking into back country to put up Wilderness boundary signs?
• Contributed to SAWS, BRC or WSSA?
• Contacted Tim Foss @ the NFS to offer whatever help you can, when needed?
• Sent a email or confronted, in any way, someone who is threatening our areas by riding out of bounds or seen littering in our areas?
• Attend any FS meetings on how snowmobilers can better manage and keep our areas?
• And the list goes on.........

I'm 4 out of 6 in that small list, Most of the people who are the most active in this thread are most likely 6 out of 6. You're sparring with the guys who are out there fighting tooth and nail for YOUR sport!
My guess is that you have done none of the above and nothing at all, so stop getting your panties twisted and challenging posts and people who are doing SOMETHING, when you are doing NOTHING!

Good list of things to do on a regular basis, or working closely with someone who is....participation is key.

Now, let's keep this focused on the objective. Notice and pressure on anyone who threatens our sport. If there's business to be had and they are the law breakers....look for another option. How we do this can be as varied as the number of people involved, the key is do something. And so long each is doing something, then that's enough for support. If you think a letter/email can be written better, do it and then share it so you may influence others to improve or generate new ideas..outside of those efforts that move this forward,,,,,keep your trap shut and get out of the way...work needs to be done and slackers aren't needed.

 

[H20SKE]

"this type of behavior is not being accepted by the other riders anymore !!!"


that sounds like a Twisted Sister song. if, and i mean if, i were one of those guys it would sound like you were my father when i read that. a threat like that doesn't do much good. but i know y0u know everything since you are over 40. that letter s0unds like a 16 year old wrote it. you can do better!!!!!

LOL---Let us see your letter---I am open to other ideas---

Remember these people KNOW what they are doing and are ignoring the LAW, and what really pisses me off---is that it will affect you and me---I care--apparently you do not?? How should it be worded??? Or do you care about this at all ???

 

[ReTodd]

This almost funny that you think this is over the top---This is a very polite call out that we are expecting them to act in a legal way and not to ruin the rest of us sledders riding areas. I have left it open to them for a thinking period and response---But seeing as both of these e-mails were sent today and I have not seen a response from either one of them-----sounds like ......

Paul,

I think your approach is perfect....letting them know that others are pissed about it is what we need. it WILL make them think twice next time. Good work and I'll drop an email as well.

Rt

 

[duffman]

I am going to start by saying I don't condone poaching wilderness. Also, I have been on here for years and know some of you personally as very good people. That is all the more reason that this thread puzzles me. There must be a dreadful shortage of glass houses, because apparently you all have taken them off the market. There might be someone here who has never knowingly broken any law, but in today's world of limp-wristed politicians legislating to protect everyone from themselvs, I highly doubt it.

We should be self policing, but that does not include an internet witch-hunt with potentially devestating consequences. You guys are going after one of these guys livelihood for christ sake! It is easy to throw stones from the protection of a computer (I applaud Paul in this case. Although I fervently disagree with him, at least he has the stones to name himself).
What if one of you trespessed on private ground to get to one of your areas? If I complained here about that, no one here would go on a witch hunt. Private property should be much more sacred than public, but in today's backword world of atlas shrugged it is not.

Finally, you all think you are helping the situation. Wrong!!!! I guarantee as soon as the greenies find this thread, it will be on every one of their websites as evidence of us being unable to police ourselvs, thus they need to close the entire world down from snowmobiling becauise we can't even agree not to ride the wilderness. Jakey boy is right, these people could care less about finding a solution to shared access (other than a few of their useful idiots), they just want to close down all public ground to create their own personal reserves subsidized by you and me the taxpayer. They will turn any action against us. We must fight and defeat them, not run around in a schoolyard game of gotcha.

 

[yammadog]

Finally, you all think you are helping the situation. Wrong!!!! I guarantee as soon as the greenies find this thread, it will be on every one of their websites as evidence of us being unable to police ourselvs, thus they need to close the entire world down from snowmobiling becauise we can't even agree not to ride the wilderness. Jakey boy is right, these people could care less about finding a solution to shared access (other than a few of their useful idiots), they just want to close down all public ground to create their own personal reserves subsidized by you and me the taxpayer. They will turn any action against us. We must fight and defeat them, not run around in a schoolyard game of gotcha.

the greenies are posting the same pictures that they took of the violators. And they have previously when we used to say nothing and turn a blind eye. Sure we all live with glass in the house, but if we don't clean up our act internally, then the fight we can bring is muted when they pull the pictures out for FS.

Unless these guys get caught, then legally there is no recourse. We can only publically make their peers aware of the action, better us than the greenies. I can personally choose to not do business with someone that is impacting my rights to ride in legal area when they are poaching. I also avoid doing biz with the companies that support the enviro nazi's...both of them are doing the same thing, getting our areas shut down.

What good is it to send money to saws, brc, wssa or to anyone or clean up after yourselves and others, if these few selfish riders nullify those efforts for a few short hours of riding where they shouldn't?! We need to make those groups stronger and our efforts more effective by managing our own actions.

I'd much rather these guys fess up and commit to not doing it again with this bit of peer pressure, than to have their sled impounded, huge fines or whatever can be thrown at them. So, really the choice is theirs.

Our choice is to either give them peer pressure with assurances that we will continue to be viligant in policing ourselves, or do nothing and let them get out areas shut down. What's your choice?

 

[yammadog]

We should be self policing, but that does not include an internet witch-hunt with potentially devestating consequences.

What method do you suggest to let the public know these are the guys poaching wilderness?

these 4m's are one of the best tools for communication to make an impact. thinks of all the SAWS reps. Everyone of them has been involved on this 4m. Most of the volunteers that help with the snow shows every year have been thru here at one point or another. Tell, me what better method to start and get a movement rolling with real impact?

 

[H20SKE]

Stay on track here folks---this is NOT a witch hunt---this is a call for support to let these people know that this is not acceptable anymore !!!

We have of course all broke a law---And yes--I have been in where I should not have--about 20+ years ago--but as soon as I found out--I never went in again--so if I had a call out back then like this--I would have stood up and said thank you for pointing this out and that it would not happen agian--so this being handled and MY glass house not being shattered--LOL.

More info---Karen Porter---Director of marketing at SUNCADIA----Ya think that maybe this family might know where the wilderness is??? Todd M Porter is the male side of this.


This looks like a bunch of the locals from the area that do not agree with the rules and blatently disregard them--so when the whole area is lost--maybe their buisnesses will take a hit from that---so who is attacking their buisness??

 

[winter brew]

Perhaps a note on the windshield and applications for SAWS, BRC and WSSA??

 

[yammadog]

Perhaps a note on the windshield and applications for SAWS, BRC and WSSA??

Good idea. Going to pack a couple brochures in my pack/truck. Do you think that will influence these people?

 

[winter brew]

Good idea. Going to pack a couple brochures in my pack/truck. Do you think that will influence these people?

No. But it's a polite way of letting them know they have been cought, it isn't appreciated and there are alternatives to keep areas open so they won't have to break the law to ride.

 

[HUGHESMD500]

I am going to start by saying I don't condone poaching wilderness. Also, I have been on here for years and know some of you personally as very good people. That is all the more reason that this thread puzzles me. There must be a dreadful shortage of glass houses, because apparently you all have taken them off the market. There might be someone here who has never knowingly broken any law, but in today's world of limp-wristed politicians legislating to protect everyone from themselvs, I highly doubt it.

We should be self policing, but that does not include an internet witch-hunt with potentially devestating consequences. You guys are going after one of these guys livelihood for christ sake! It is easy to throw stones from the protection of a computer (I applaud Paul in this case. Although I fervently disagree with him, at least he has the stones to name himself).
What if one of you trespessed on private ground to get to one of your areas? If I complained here about that, no one here would go on a witch hunt. Private property should be much more sacred than public, but in today's backword world of atlas shrugged it is not.

Finally, you all think you are helping the situation. Wrong!!!! I guarantee as soon as the greenies find this thread, it will be on every one of their websites as evidence of us being unable to police ourselvs, thus they need to close the entire world down from snowmobiling becauise we can't even agree not to ride the wilderness. Jakey boy is right, these people could care less about finding a solution to shared access (other than a few of their useful idiots), they just want to close down all public ground to create their own personal reserves subsidized by you and me the taxpayer. They will turn any action against us. We must fight and defeat them, not run around in a schoolyard game of gotcha.

Private proterty is completely different. If you trespass then there is a path to remedy the situation and only those that trespass are affected. If you do it the way these idiots did, then we all get penalized. Can you figure that simple scenario out?

I fly over this area all the time and this isn't the first time these same people have been in there. They were there last year as well.

If this wasn't so bad then the cowards would respond. But since they are cowards by definition, they will continue to ignore and pretend it will just go away. Guess what, not this time. I don't care if their businesses get affected or not. Many people on this site make a living in the sledding industry and their action have an effect on them if that area shuts down.

The rental place in Cle Elum.... don't use it...
The Real Estate guy.... don't use him.
The electrical contractor..... find someone else to do it.

They don't give two sh!ts about you or the law and they are F-ing cowards for hiding. They brought this on themselves and as adults they should fix it.

The were witnessed by a few people and exposed. Stop making excuses for them.... You're starting to sould like the left wing idiots that are taking the land away from us to begin with. Real men would come forward. Cowards don't.

Suck it.

 

[duffman]

Private proterty is completely different. If you trespass then there is a path to remedy the situation and only those that trespass are affected. If you do it the way these idiots did, then we all get penalized. Can you figure that simple scenario out?

I fly over this area all the time and this isn't the first time these same people have been in there. They were there last year as well.

If this wasn't so bad then the cowards would respond. But since they are cowards by definition, they will continue to ignore and pretend it will just go away. Guess what, not this time. I don't care if their businesses get affected or not. Many people on this site make a living in the sledding industry and their action have an effect on them if that area shuts down.

The rental place in Cle Elum.... don't use it...
The Real Estate guy.... don't use him.
The electrical contractor..... find someone else to do it.

They don't give two sh!ts about you or the law and they are F-ing cowards for hiding. They brought this on themselves and as adults they should fix it.

The were witnessed by a few people and exposed. Stop making excuses for them.... You're starting to sould like the left wing idiots that are taking the land away from us to begin with. Real men would come forward. Cowards don't.

Suck it.

Real men approach someone about a problem, personally. They don't flame away on the internet like a bunch of jilted teenagers. If some of the individual posters have already tried that, good on them, but the majority here are jumping on a dogpile and have no idea the facts of the situation, other then hearsay. I am making excuses for no one, I am confronting bad behavior where I see it as fact, which is right here!!!!!

As far as acting like the left wing, the left wing uses subletry, lies, manipulation, intimidation, etc. to devide people who would otherwise be in general agreement. This splits the quorum that would usually stand against their radical ideals. They then step in and pick up the pieces, framing the rules in their favor as their opponents fight amongst themelvs. I wonder what is actually happening here?

 

[Lushbomb]

calling these folks out is appropriate. but bringing more negative attention to the FS s probably not the best idea.. thats what my logic tells me.
IMO

 

[WMC]

Thanks

Thanks newtrout, Yammadog, Blindman, and all here trying to solve this problem. You guys also put in work on the Wilderness Boundary placing signs last summer, thanks for that.

EDIT to remove background as yammadog asked. On another thread.

Anyway, thanks for these efforts to keep snowmobile riding away from the Wilderness.

 

[yammadog]

Let's be sure to not get off track on the purpose for this thread. Peer pressure, WMC, I can appreciate you chiming in on this, but please establish a new thread or edit your response if this moves away from or in to a discussion of your groups mission. Admin, can you watch this and create a new thread if that starts?

 

[WMC]

Let's be sure to not get off track on the purpose for this thread. Peer pressure, WMC, I can appreciate you chiming in on this, but please establish a new thread or edit your response if this moves away from or in to a discussion of your groups mission. Admin, can you watch this and create a new thread if that starts?

Thanks newtrout, Yammadog, Blindman, and all here trying to solve this problem. You guys also put in work on the Wilderness Boundary placing signs last summer, thanks for that. That is the message. Other background was to help folks understand. Keep up the good work!

 

[HUGHESMD500]

Many of you won't be able to read this unless you upgrade your membership.... so Off to BCR I go.... where this story was really started.

 

[rmk2112]

Thread continued to: http://www.snowestonline.com/forum/showthread.php?t=268451

So all members can read and offer input on this important subject.