Who's to Blame for Revy Avlanche?

[summitboy]

Mike Wieglie has lost around 15 skiers. Poor choice of an example OT. Maybe Mike got smarter over the years and started bombing to avoid having a lawsuit or two. Do you think he should of been publicly hung ? Was he ?

Its all about progression and education. Kind of like progression at this years BIS. Avy danger was high and less people showed up to this years event. Its use at your own risk. Just because your mad at the whole sledding community doesn't mean everyone needs to be punished !

Wow for a loser that is retired from the sport you sure are hanging around a lot. You must have a sad life if you have nothing better to do !

 

[summitboy]

I would like to blame OT for the avy in Revy. Its clear that he knew the avy danger was extreme and didn't do enough to get up to Revelstoke and put a stop this situation ! Yes OT its just as much your fault according to your rules ! You knew and you just sat there behind your computer and did nothing, how can you live with yourself ?

 

[MacDawg productions]

I would like to blame OT for the avy in Revy. Its clear that he knew the avy danger was extreme and didn't do enough to get up to Revelstoke and put a stop this situation ! Yes OT its just as much your fault according to your rules ! You knew and you just sat there behind your computer and did nothing, how can you live with yourself ?

Lmfao!!!!

 

[sledskiing]

From what i understand the BIS event was not at Turbo hill. The event on saturday was held at a different location and riders went there after the event. This is what I read on S & M.

 

[KFD070]

Why does someone always have to be held responsible when something like this, or any injury or death situation occurs? I'll tell you why...because everybody is so dam ready to "SUE" anyone and everyone whether they were directly affected by the events or not. I feel sorry for Ozone Dave. He is going to have one helluva $hit storm to weather over the coming weeks. Makes me wanna puke. Why can't people accept responsibility for their own actions these days?

 

[columbus]

Mother Nature.

Mother Nature is not at fault here. The mountains gave plenty of warning that conditions were sketchy.

 

[pylon]

when you park in an avy run out youre bound to get hit sooner or later . it was very unfortunate it had to happen during the BIS . The even had not even made it to turbo yet . A crowd just gathered to watch some hill climbing , just like any other weekend on boulder . when you enter the back country YOU assume all responsibility for YOURE SELF . no one is to blame for the avy but the media is to blame for blowing this way out of proportion and twisting around statements .

 

[jhurkot]

Everytime you point your finger to blame someone else for your own careless actions you have 3 people pointing their finger at you.

 

[backcountryislife]

Instead of asking who is to blame couldn't we look at what was done wrong & figure out how to teach people not to do it anymore??


We could call people stupid & careless if that makes folks feel better!!?!

I just keep seeing us going from "don't blame anybody, nobody is at fault here" fer F's sake, you sound like the socialists that you all despise, to "who can we nail to the cross" which admittedly does sound more like the typical sledder mentality, but doesn't accomplish S**T.

First off I suggest we implement a gut shot rule for anyone who marks above a stuck buddy (with tek vest off of course), if someone high marks above me when I'm stuck, they're lucky to just get one shot to the gut.

Second I suggest we implement a don't be a f'in moron & sit in the path of a slide rule. the punishment from that is pretty obvious.


how bout work on fixing instead of yapping about blame. talk to your stupid friends, educate them or shoot them, one way or the other, it's better for us all.

 

[nytrocharged]

this was no ones fault one of my buddys might not make it.. an every person there prob new or herd the avalanche rating was high and no one made.. any one go there people choose to go there an look we should be thank full are s&r where on the ball and every one worked fair together an we only lost 2 people it sucks but it could have been way way worse

 

[Alberta Boy]

If they would have cancelled it people would have still been there and it prob still would have happend. They would not cancel it weeks in advance,they would have canceled it thur or fri and most people would have allready been in town for it so they still would have gone up that day,event or not.

I sure hope there is no lawsuits brought forth by this.

It isn't a matter of cancelling the event and no one would go up... by ozone cancelling the event, it absolves him from ANY discussion around fault... by not cancelling it (knowing the conditions), this will call attention to him, his event and what happened as a result... not saying that it is right... He is going to have to answer some tough questions which he wouldn't have to answer if this was a group out on their own (no BIS event going on).

I hope it doesn't go to lawsuits but there will be some uncomfortable moments for some peeps for the next year!!!

 

[greeny]

Its each indivduals responsibility to park(watch the event)from a safe location, If you play in the freeway your gona get hit by a car. RIP

 

[glassman]

Whos to blame?

If you were to blame anyone, blame everyone who was involved. It is an apparent lack of education on the safety procedures of backcountry riding to blame for this accident. #1 cardinal rule "stay away from slope when the avy conditions are high!" live by this rule and live...Period. How many times have you watched guys climbing and ridden right by to watch at a safe distance, shaking your head? You know better, right? If you are unaware of the circumstances of sitting in an avy path or riding on or around sloping terrain, them you have no right to be there. It is no different than driving your car, there are certain rules to abide by and if everyone follows them then your chances of survival are greatly improved. I feel for the losses and the injured, but it all comes down to lack of education or intelligence. Im sorry but it is true!

 

[Sno Junkie]

There will not be any lawsuits...no grounds for it period. The event wasn't sanctioned, it wasn't even held that day (from what I understand) and its an OHV accident.
The only people who are to blame for anything (IMO), is the parents who had their kids up there. Our kids expect us to make the right decisions for them in these types of situations. They only know what we teach them. I am very very happy that nobody's kids got killed. I hope every parent realizes the horrible decision they made by putting their child in danger. Those children will be affected by this for many years to come...they might never get over it.
The rest of it....well, its what we do. Precautions should have been taken. Better judgement should have been made. The writing was on the wall and ignored. We all live a little on the edge and we all seem to have this need to conquer nature. Sometimes mother nature will fight back. Live and Learn.

 

[208_RMK]

Quote:
Originally Posted by backcountryislife
I have a lot of empathy & sadness for those that have passed & those that are left behind, I hope their families can move on with the rest of their lives in a positive manner.


On the other hand I am blown away & disgusted by the amount of denial in our community about what happened here. Very few want to admit the amount of negligence that occurred. It think it's shameful & is a disservice to the dead AND more important to those that have survived that people want to dent the reality which is... AN OUTRAGEOUS AMOUNT OF RULES WERE BROKEN HERE. By the riders, by the spectators, but the guy who cut above another rider and on & on... All I see here is poor decision making that needs to be curbed, and if we as a community keep saying that this was "an act of god" or that nobody is at fault, then we look like the morons that the rest of the world thinks we are right now.

I've spent my last couple days fighting this perception on another site, the constant assumption that we're all stupid 2 stroke fueled lackeys seems to be relatively common amongst other bc travelers. Things like this don't help & if people don't start owning up to how we need to CHANGE instead of all the coombayaa bullsh** we'll keep dying, they'll keep being right & the gov't will just have better fuel to regulate us out of the backcountry.


Flame away, I'm the bad guy here.

This is the truth man, there are so many other areas I ride when I know the avalanch risk is high let alone extreme. The guy even said there were other avalanches in the area before the big one at turbo. I am so sorry about the people affected. We must be proactive and stay the hell off big hills like turbo when the risk is to great. It's no different than lighting a cigarrette in a buring house or pulling the tail of a domesticated tiger- sooner or later something bad is going to happen. Sounds a bit blunt but man 3-4 feet of pow on old packed snow "extreme" conditions. Lets not blame but evaluate what went on.

And yeah like backcountry said, flame away

 

[Pastor]

I do not want to see anyone blamed. We are becoming a society that has to blame everything on someone as long as it is someone else!!

This was an open invitation ride. How can you hold any one person accountable for who comes and who does not; let alone who decides to climb and who decides to watch or where people decide to sit and watch. These are all individual choices and some of those choices were bad. The worse the choice the higher the price that was paid.

I want to have the choice to make a bad decision that is what freedom is. This is a terrible and aweful thing that has happened. We need to all learn volumes from this horrible tragedy. But to use one or two people as scape goats is not right.

It sounds to me like the Canadian avalanche people got it right. There forecast was correct. It becomes the responsibility of every individual to then take that information and apply it to themselves.

Some lessons we have talked about in the past:

1. One on the mountain at a time even if he gets stuck

2. Avalanche run out can be 2-3 times what you would think it would be and until you have seen a big one run out you do not know what you are talking about so stay way back!!

 

[bigbull]

From my friend, Susie Rainsberry. Please pass and share with her permission:

It’s been several days now since the tragic avalanche at Turbo Hill. The latest reports are that two are deceased and three are still hospitalized. The media is also reporting that there were 200 snowmobilers at Turbo at the time of the slide. The avalanche is reported to have been up to 150 meters wide and 10 meters deep. That, my friends, is a BIG avalanche!

I’d like to put some perspective on this – a snowmobiler’s perspective. Apparently no one in the media is a snowmobiler or is concerned about taking the time to gather the facts – not just the bad, but the good as well. And there is good to be heard in this story. If you ask a snowmobiler – they’d be able to tell you what that is. But either the media isn’t asking, or has heard it and doesn’t feel that the facts are newsworthy.

However, I feel these facts are the MOST newsworthy topic of this entire tragedy.

Saturday afternoon, following the close of the events for the annual Big Iron Shootout, a large group of snowmobilers headed to Turbo Bowl to make a run at the hill. As the riders lined up at the bottom of the hill, the mass of spectators parked their sleds and prepared to enjoy the show. As one of the sleds turned out towards the top, the hillside gave way. Thundering down the mountain it came – taking sleds and riders with it. This powerful act of nature happens in a split second. There is no time to react.

The time to react is as soon as it stops. And react – with speed and knowledge – in the midst of chaos – is what those sledders did. There were no typical first responders to this catastrophe in the immediate moments following the avalanche. Only snowmobilers. Those same snowmobilers that the media is painting with a broad stroke as crazy, ignorant, thrill-seekers.

As a back country snowmobiler myself, I can tell you that ignorant is not a word that I would use to describe those survivors. I would call them heroes! And justly so. In the midst of what may have been the most terrifying minutes of their lives, they turned their avalanche beacons to search, they got out their probes and their shovels and they started rescue protocols IMMEDIATELY – likely while in a state of shock. They dug out those that were buried, they triaged the injured, they administered first aid, they built fires to keep them warm until the helicopters arrived. These people were heroic!! Without their quick and educated responses, many more people would have died.

I am angered that the media is so eager to report this story that they are being so disgraceful to the victims and survivors. These people need support and compassion. They do not need to be stereotyped and degraded in the media or by anyone else. Shame on you!! Didn’t your mother teach you better manners than that?

I’m not done though – there is way more information about snowmobilers in respect to the Big Iron Shootout and Revelstoke that the media hasn’t covered yet. While they gleefully report that this is an unsanctioned (I’ll get to that in a moment) event drew 200 sledders (despite the grave warnings from the avalanche center), what they aren’t telling you is that there are likely double that number of snowmobilers who DIDN’T attend this year’s event – because of the conditions. Snowmobilers who DID heed the warnings.

As I was reading the snowmobiling forums and Facebook on Saturday evening, the same story continued to repeat itself – people concerned about friends who generally attend the BIS, those friends checking in and saying they didn’t go this year, or they were in the area but avoided Turbo Bowl because of the warnings and the conditions they were already aware of. You see, back country snowmobilers are often in the back country two or more days a week and already have first hand insight to the conditions.

Regarding the word being used in almost every story – unsanctioned. It is true that there is no sanctioning organization for this event. Not the town of Revelstoke nor the Revelstoke Snowmobile Club. However, just because it’s not sanctioned does not mean that it is illegal.

Snowmobilers often gather in large groups to ride with friends who are generally dispersed all over Canada and the United States. I personally rode with a group of 30 riders at an “unsanctioned” event in Wyoming. Oops! I also rode at another “unsanctioned” event, ummm, better make that two, here in Oregon. Rest assured, I am not a criminal nor are any of the snowmobilers that I know.

The internet keeps the snowmobiling community connected. There are 1,000s of unsanctioned events that simply start by someone saying, “hey – who wants to ride this weekend?” Next thing ya know, word spreads about how much fun everyone had and it snowballs from there (pun intended). They grow into these annual events…”same date next year?”

So, here’s what happens next – the date is set. Motel rooms are reserved. Trucks and sleds are fueled. Vacation time is requested. Then individuals, families and social groups all head into a remote mountain town. They buy. They buy. They buy a lot!! They spend money – because they can.

It is with great sadness that I have to dispel the myth that mountain snowmobilers are a bunch of rednecks. All you really need to do is add up the costs to outfit an individual – much less an entire family – with a sled and the proper safety gear. Since this article is really targeted at those individuals who are not mountain sledders, I will point out that everything – got that?…EVERYTHING, on your person and on your sled is part and parcel of your survival gear. From your gloves, to your coat, to the sunglasses in your backpack. Trying to save a dime in buying a coat is really not advised, when that coat may be the only thing protecting you from the elements if you have to stay overnight. With all that said, here’s a run down of estimated costs of the primary accessories needed to sled in the back country.

· Sled $6,000-$14,000 USD
· Clothes (including base, mid and outer layers) $800-$1,200 USD
· Boots/gloves/helmet $245-$800 USD
· Backpack (non-avy) $60-$120 USD
· Backpack (avy) $1,000-$1,200 USD
· Body armor (tek vest, knee pads, etc) $60-$300 USD
· Beacon, probe, shovel $250-$400 USD

This doesn’t include a lot of items, such as matches, radios, compass, fire starter, flashlight…and the list goes on, and the costs add up. It would be GREATLY appreciated if the media would STOP perpetuating the myths that sledders are a bunch of couch-potato, ignoranamuses. Because it’s simply not true.

The fact is that mountain sledders do not fit a stereotypical mold. They come from all areas of the business world…from CEOs to millworkers. They have families and they are single. They are old and they are young. They are world-class athletes and they are physically handicapped. They survive corporate down-sizing, cancer, divorces, etc….just like everyone else.

The thing that binds us together is our great love for the back country in the winter. We are modern day adventurers. We want to get out there – in the mountains. We want to explore and play and wonder at the beauty. We love the snow! When it covers the trees, when it flies up in our faces, when it gives us a playground of vast proportions. That is when we are in heaven. That is when our souls glow.

We are not anything that the media will have tried to make us out to be in the last couple of days. We are so much more. It’s truly a pity that the media isn’t interested in shining any light on the truth.

The truth is - the Turbo Bowl avy survivors are HEROS. We in the snowmobiling communities – far and wide – are praying for the full recovery of those injured, in body and in spirit. And finally, with great compassion and sympathy we extend our heartfelt condolences to the families of those who perished.

I wrote this and I am Susie Rainsberry, Oregon resident, back-country snowmobiler. I provide free and complete liberty for others to share and disperse this message. The time has come to stop the slandering of good individuals just because they ride snowmobiles.
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[joz]

Why does someone always have to be held responsible when something like this, or any injury or death situation occurs? I'll tell you why...because everybody is so dam ready to "SUE" anyone and everyone whether they were directly affected by the events or not. I feel sorry for Ozone Dave. He is going to have one helluva $hit storm to weather over the coming weeks. Makes me wanna puke. Why can't people accept responsibility for their own actions these days?

THANK YOU!
Now first off i would like to say that everyone who thinks someone should be blamed for any of this shove shove it up you know what!
AND if we are going to point any fingers, we all know that you have to purchase a trail pass, SO the people who are selling those should be getting in a little bit of poop, considering they can turn ANYONE and EVERYONE down!
ALSO everyone has there own friggen brain and they certainly should know how to use it if they are going riding!
This so called "event" is nothing more then 1 person telling some friends to go here, and those friends telling there friends, and so on and so forth!
SO again i believe that everyone who chose to go riding that weekend has there own brain and there own balls, so lets not go pointing fingers at people.
AND another thing would be that Mother Nature is brewing something good, because look at how many "NATURAL DISASTERS" have happened this year alone. We all know about everything that has occured, and there is a reason why it is called a NATURAL disater! No one should be blamed for anything.
AND like the one widow said on the news last night, "it was his own choice and he made the mistake, but at least he died doing something he loved"
Thank you,
and sorry to the people who have been hurt.

 

[columbus]

Instead of asking who is to blame couldn't we look at what was done wrong & figure out how to teach people not to do it anymore??


We could call people stupid & careless if that makes folks feel better!!?!

I just keep seeing us going from "don't blame anybody, nobody is at fault here" fer F's sake, you sound like the socialists that you all despise, to "who can we nail to the cross" which admittedly does sound more like the typical sledder mentality, but doesn't accomplish S**T.

First off I suggest we implement a gut shot rule for anyone who marks above a stuck buddy (with tek vest off of course), if someone high marks above me when I'm stuck, they're lucky to just get one shot to the gut.

Second I suggest we implement a don't be a f'in moron & sit in the path of a slide rule. the punishment from that is pretty obvious.


how bout work on fixing instead of yapping about blame. talk to your stupid friends, educate them or shoot them, one way or the other, it's better for us all.

Best post I have read on the whole situation.

 

[Scott]

If by "blame" (and the title of the thread) we mean "who caused this"...it COULD be hard to answer. That might turn into more of a philosophical question and answer than anything else.

It seems in the last couple of days that many of us are using the same terms with different definitions or usages.

Blame and responsibility are the two that are being used a lot...along with personal responsibility/accountability.

Some of the people are saying that nobody is to blame.
I have seen it said that mother nature is to blame.
Others are responsible for themselves and chose to be on the mtn. Personal accountability.

Some people are saying BOTH of those in the same sentence.
If you are...then aren't you contradicting yourself?

If someone is responsible for making a choice to be on the mtn, doesn't the blame rest on themselves? Shouldn't they be held personally accountable for their own actions?






Avalanches cannot be prevented.
Being IN one can be prevented.