Weight vs. Clicker

[Dynamo^Joe]

Have no idea where the c of g is other than know levers with c of g that is "farther away" from the lever axle, they are less aggressive, create rpms quicker by raising the shift rpms.

Pull the c of g back towards the lever axle and the clutching acts more heavy with a larger engine feel, does not create rpms as quick, the shift rpm will be lower.
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Not bad impression.
You would really hit it home if you held a potato masher in your hand and took a picture of it.

 

[Dartos]

After messing with my TRA I have come to the conclusion that you have to run a compromised setup because you cant gear the sled down to the point that it rips hard off the bottom and then shift the clutch far enough to build lots of track speed while under load.

Well perhaps the Super Torquer may be radicly different enough that you dont have to accect a comprimise, or the comprimise is much smaller.

Moving the weight around on the arm like the composit arms seem to be a step up from the stock arms also. I just want to make the right decision before I spend $250-$350. I know I am going away from the stock arms, I just don't know with what yet.

RED EYE: How is that setup for getting on and off the throttle like boon docking. Right now my primary gets hot enough that is will burn my skin. I was changing the clickers a couple of weeks ago and put a nice inch long blister on my wrist. I'm wondering if I have one of the sleds that's not aligned quite right???

 

[Red-eye]

Well perhaps the Super Torquer may be radicly different enough that you dont have to accect a comprimise, or the comprimise is much smaller.

Moving the weight around on the arm like the composit arms seem to be a step up from the stock arms also. I just want to make the right decision before I spend $250-$350. I know I am going away from the stock arms, I just don't know with what yet.

RED EYE: How is that setup for getting on and off the throttle like boon docking. Right now my primary gets hot enough that is will burn my skin. I was changing the clickers a couple of weeks ago and put a nice inch long blister on my wrist. I'm wondering if I have one of the sleds that's not aligned quite right???

I would say if you didn't know you would think it was stock except it seems smoother and upshifts fully. Back shift is excelent and still seems the same coming down hills. I think its just a more efficient arm, does the same thing with less weight. I am shifting all the way out on clicker 1 and 2. I'm thinking of gearing up one.

 

[Original Tetonice]

LMAO, some of you girls just have chapped lips because you've never been able to compete with SuperTorquers products. Hahaha therefore all some of you girls can doo is peddeling BS along with BS diagrams that mean nothing on the snow.

Making statements such as the ramps don't move is an example of peddeling BS.


Fact: Some guys that peddle clutch kits on SW try to knock the effectiveness of the SuperTorquer products. WHY ? becuase there junk does not compete against SuperTorquer Haha.


Fact: SuperTorquer has a long history of being in the winners circle at the race track while brand X sold by the junk peddlers can only wish that were true with the junk they sell.

Fact: It's pretty poor when junk peddlers bad mouth products that work and work consistantly such as SuperTorquer products.

Fact: The junk peddlers like to fool the novice but those with experiance know better ...EXAMPLE, the ramps do move, somethings the junk peddelers have a hard time admitting.


OT

 

[Original Tetonice]

Here's a question for the junk peddelers of brand X clutch kits ? How much testing have you done with supertorquer products ?

A. zero miles
B. 100 miles
C. 300 miles
D. 500 miles

Talks Cheap

OT

 

[Original Tetonice]

Something else about the CRA by supertorquer. You can not change to different ramps or primary springs the setup will not work. The CRA Arm, Supertorquers Ramp & Spring all work together which acheives maxium clutch performance and efficiancy.

The junk peddelers that sell brand X, can not tell you with any certain truth which 1 primary spring works, which 1 ramp works or which 1 weight works. All they can doo is attempt to preach BS and post meaning less BS diagrams which is useless when your riding your sled.

When you purchase a Supertorquer Kit you purchase a kit that works with all the parts included.

OT

 

[triple7]

Ok guys, good info. Thanks for the diagrams, I am getting a clearer picture of some things that I would like to try.

Another question, how does ramp angle and c of g work together?? If the c of g is moved away from the roller (down the arm) what should ramp angle throughout the ramp do to create a revvy feel off the bottom and shift out on top?

Thanks guys (except for OT), lots of good info here.

 

[Original Tetonice]

The SuperTorquer is the only clutch kit your XP will ever need. With over 500 miles of testing against other kits peddeled on this site heres why.

1. Hole Shot Every Time

2. Consistant RPM In All Conditions Every Time

3. Fastest Track Speed Every Time

4. Quickest Upshift & backShift Every Time

OT

 

[Original Tetonice]

Ok guys, good info. Thanks for the diagrams, I am getting a clearer picture of some things that I would like to try.

Another question, how does ramp angle and c of g work together?? If the c of g is moved away from the roller (down the arm) what should ramp angle throughout the ramp do to create a revvy feel off the bottom and shift out on top?

Thanks guys (except for OT), lots of good info here.

Heres some sound advise for you.........If you owned the correct clutch kit you would not have concerns about C of G or a revvy feel off the bottom and shift out on top LOL

The only thing that matters in clutching are the 4 things that i mentioned that the SuperTorquer does.

OT

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

Ok guys, good info. Thanks for the diagrams, I am getting a clearer picture of some things that I would like to try.

Another question, how does ramp angle and c of g work together?? If the c of g is moved away from the roller (down the arm) what should ramp angle throughout the ramp do to create a revvy feel off the bottom and shift out on top?

The lever weigh's "X" grams to which offers "X" amount of force (at full throttle) to move the sliding sheave.
The center of gravity is in "X" position and controls what rpms the "shift rpms" will be.

The ramp profile controls the size of the shift force allowed from the lever to push on the sliding sheave.
*The higher the ramp angle, the lower the shift force is allowed from the lever. (stalls upshift, produces more and/or quicker accelerating rpms)
*The lower the ramp angle, the higher the shift force is allowed from the lever. (allows upshift, produces less and/or slower accelerating rpms)

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Triple7)If the c of g is moved away from the roller (down the arm) what should ramp angle throughout the ramp do to create a revvy feel off the bottom and shift out on top?
Joe) A thicker ramp. The thicker ramp forces the lever to be tucked towards the crankshaft and will reveal that "revvy feel". The closer the lever is to the crankshaft, the more rpms is needed for the lever to start it's upshift.

Any of the older time tuners who ran tra-2 components that used 283, 285, 286 ramps would observe a certain personality from the clutches. Then changed over to a thicker CF1 or 280 or 145, 228 ramp, they would notice that the engine would accelerate rpms quicker upon a throttle chop as the shift point rpms would be raised.

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

those with experiance know better ...EXAMPLE, the ramps do move, somethings the junk peddelers have a hard time admitting.
OT

You argued, saying "my experiances, teh ranps move whin teh sled isn opernation."
We said "Our experiences, ramps do not move when in operation, they are stationary and rest against the cam adjusting screw."

Ramps still don't move when in operation.

Please watch this video.
It shows ramp position changing when clutch is at rest, stopped, engine shut off, maybe not even on the sled to change ramp position.
The only time ramp moves is when the operator changes the clicker....when engine is shut off.
.
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Thought I would just touch on that fer ya...
.
.

 

[winter brew]

Joe....it's useless. Until he's back on the correct meds the ramps will be moving. The voices in his head told him so.

 

[Original Tetonice]

You argued, saying "my experiances, teh ranps move whin teh sled isn opernation."
We said "Our experiences, ramps do not move when in operation, they are stationary and rest against the cam adjusting screw."

Ramps still don't move when in operation.

Please watch this video.
It shows ramp position changing when clutch is at rest, stopped, engine shut off, maybe not even on the sled to change ramp position.
The only time ramp moves is when the operator changes the clicker....when engine is shut off.
.
.
Thought I would just touch on that fer ya...
.
.

Time and time again you fail to answer this simple question........When the TRA clicker is set on #6 and you click down to #5, #4,#3,#2, or #1 how does the ramp get to clicker #5, #4, #3, #2, or #1.

This question can also be answered by WinterBrew or BigJohn.

Answer the question
v
v
v
v

 

[rockymking]

Joe....it's useless. Until he's back on the correct meds the ramps will be moving. The voices in his head told him so.

LMAO ... best advice I've heard all day! Don't waste your time Joey ...

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

Time and time again you fail to answer this simple question........blah bla bla

Time and time again you fail to admit you said this...
You said - Teh ranps move whin teh cluntch is turming.

We said - No!...The ramps do not move when the clutch is turning.

I feel sorry for you stevie. I feel sorry for you that you can't kick being so unlikable.

 

[triple7]

Ok, but by moving the center of gravity down the arm you directly affect the 'X' force at peak rpm and shift correct?

Joe, Brew, BJ or any other clutch guy, what is YOUR opinion of the supertorqure setup?? Aside from the OT bs does this kit address any/some of the problems with fluctuating rpm issues?? Track speeds?? And just the general problems of consistent operation in varying conditions and loads??

If these products do or do not work, why??

 

[winter brew]

Ok, but by moving the center of gravity down the arm you directly affect the 'X' force at peak rpm and shift correct?

Joe, Brew, BJ or any other clutch guy, what is YOUR opinion of the supertorqure setup?? Aside from the OT bs does this kit address any/some of the problems with fluctuating rpm issues?? Track speeds?? And just the general problems of consistent operation in varying conditions and loads??

If these products do or do not work, why??

I have not used these arms so I will not speculate how well they work.
I have used their products in the past on both TRA and P-85....they always claim they have the best setups and theories at work but I have not seen it perform any better than a properly setup "stock-type" configuration.
I have found the heat and fluctuating RPM so common with the TRA is easily fixable so I havn't felt the need to spend the time and $$ to start playing with yet another re-design of the TRA arm. Changing ramps, spring, helix etc....a guy can make a TRA behave in just about any concievable manor, and I'm willing to bet the same can be said for the center roller arms or toms arms or any other arm that can be built.....efficiency and performance is all in the BALANCE between the primary and secondary, not just ONE of the clutches or one component of the clutch.

 

[Original Tetonice]

Time and time again you fail to admit you said this...
You said - Teh ranps move whin teh cluntch is turming.

We said - No!...The ramps do not move when the clutch is turning.

I feel sorry for you stevie. I feel sorry for you that you can't kick being so unlikable.

Joe since you can not answer such a simple TRA Tech question you've earned yourself the VanKamp Award for your mis-leading BS regarding TRA ramps.

Joe you can only dance around the question for so long before SW folks figure out your full of BS

Pay Attention Joe & Others.... When clicking your tra clickers from #6 down to #5, #4, #3, #2, or #1 the engine is turned on and the rotation of the primary clutch within seconds of the engine being on will move the ramps down from #6 to #5,#4,#3,#2 and #1. Anyone Care To Prove Me Wrong?

I feel sorry for anyone who purchases clutching parts from Joe the BSer

Keep an eye on the mail Joe this award is on the way........

OT

 

[Dynamo^Joe]

Ok, but by moving the center of gravity down the arm you directly affect the 'X' force at peak rpm and shift correct?

Joe, Brew, BJ or any other clutch guy, what is YOUR opinion of the supertorqure setup?? Aside from the OT bs does this kit address any/some of the problems with fluctuating rpm issues?? Track speeds?? And just the general problems of consistent operation in varying conditions and loads??

If these products do or do not work, why??

1st off nobody here said the center roller levers did not work.

The only thing that was mentioned is that "HOW the center rollers work", "the personality of them", "what you would observe when you operate them".....can be replicated with thunder shift/heavy hitter levers.

...ot said clutch kits don't work.

When I was in NY testing the 1200 turbo with Justin Fuller (http://fullpowerperformance.com/) I was given the task to tune a set of the center roller levers. These levers were one of the first sets for nouis to have in a skidoo sled, they still had blue layout dye on them and some of the ramps were not hardened enough, the metal was starting to smear. Some ramps had a blue dot, some had a red dot on them; different curves.
I was given the task to see what I could do to get them to work in one of the turbo 1200 sleds. I spent about 18 hours of testing with them as per Justin and CJ request.

I ended up going with the dalton brute levers for the particular application because they were the only levers that I could load the engine hard enough to come off the start line without breaking the track free.

The dalton levers helped us win the American Snowmobiler Manufacturer's Challenge for Quickest 60 foot time of the weekend, highest mph in the low octane turbo class, and the Quiet Giant award.

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In the end I rather calibrate using as stock as possible. Make sure alignment is good and calibrate the clutch details so that rpms do not fluctuate under wide open throttle and/or if fluctuate under w.o.t. the rpms recover quickly, then you will have a good calibration.
Plus having Dalton at my side with Dale being able to make me anything I need regarding helix's at the snap of a finger and overnighted to a testing location, I can't beat that.

 

[Tackbtch]

LMAO ... best advice I've heard all day! Don't waste your time Joey ...

X 2 LMAO Also...ot didnt learn a thing over the "time out" Dino