Those voting for Obama I have a ??

[bigfoot]

Their economic model probably already includes taxes (would be stupid for a company of any size not to plan for taxes). Therefore paying taxes is part of their plan, and having them not pay taxes they are supposed to, only increases the profits for the top.

And for those that say they will hire more people, that is a total feel good argument. Companies hire people to make money off of them. They can pay you a wage such that the company has a monetary benefit greater then the wage they pay you. The point at which employees start costing too much, then they are reduced.

Your just proving everyone's argument, taxes go up, causing the cost of doing business to go up, people get laid off. Taxes go down, cost of doing business goes down, money gets reinvested in the company (if it's a smart company) people get hired, production increases, profits go up, etc, etc. It's been proven numerous times throughout history. It's nota feel good argument, it's a fact. Lower taxes help EVERYONE.

 

[MTdream]

The argument was that they already planned to have their taxes as a payment. You remove the payment illegally (which is what MH was talking about) and the business plan doesn't change. Unless of course you have all the accountants in on the tax fraud.

Taxes are a cost of doing business...costs of doing business are passed on to the purchaser of goods or services...

simple economics...raise taxes, you are increasing the costs which increases the price of goods or services sold...

No two ways about it....

 

[MTdream]

simple answer to the taxation issue is flat tax or national sales tax...but Libs dont like that, as it will not accomplish their goal of bigger governement, and dependence upon governement...instead you are making things easier for business to grow and people to prosper, and create opportunity, which dminishes their goal of having people be servants of the state...

if opportunity and hope increases dems/libs path is less viable...

if opportunity and hope are seen only as thigns of the elite or different class than me, thent he Libs/Dems are the key to hope and opportunity...

 

[SnowSnob]

Anyone seen this yet?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dg4dK7_xEW8&feature=related

Good Gawd Man, they'll beotch about anything won't they?

Has anyone else noticed all the late night shows are ripping on all the candidates EXCEPT Obama....at least from what I've seen?
They're having a hay day with Palin.

 

[WFO or go home]

The media is afraid to say anything negative against Obama for fear of being labeled racist.

All these cry baby do gooders are f'ing up this country...big time.

 

[bigfoot]

The media is afraid to say anything negative against Obama for fear of being labeled racist.

All these cry baby do gooders are f'ing up this country...big time.

I think it has less to do with being labeled racist and more to do with cheering him on.

Agree with your second statement though!

 

[The Fourth Wolf]

Serious question for any Snowester committed to, or thinking about voting for Obama:

Do you own or work for a small business with 50 or less employees?

If the answer is yes, then layoffs are in your immediate future should Sen Obama be elected President.

His tax plan is nothing more than good ol' leftist class-warfare demogougery....
Get the poor and the working class pissed off at the rich talking about "your fair share" and free this and free that, and promising to punish the rich for being rich. I mean the rich couldn't possibly have gotten that way through brains and hard work, they must have cheated somehow.

So the hood rats and the trailer trash, and the unionized hand-to-mouth workers vote the dude in...cuz change is good an sh!t.

Then what?
The dude goes through with his promise force the rich to pay more taxes and to force businesses to provide more benefits.

Then what?
Then the rich stop investing. The rich stop risking their capital in the sorts of ventures that create growth and jobs for not-rich schlubs like you and me and instead spend more on lawyers and accountancts to protect the wealth they have. But then the Harvard educated Lawyer running for President already knows that.

What else?
Small business like snowmobile dealerships go under because their customers can't afford to buy new sled's, and they can't afford to pay the burden of more taxes and more benefits so they lay off employees. Ironically it's the shop guys that typically go first which is a double whammy because most sledders who are hanging on to older sleds need more servicing not less. Small businesses in general are going to contract and lay people off in order to survive.

Basically, any tax plan that hurts your employer hurts you. Think about it.

IMO any sledder who votes for liberals is a fool.

 

[JSCC]

Serious question for any Snowester committed to, or thinking about voting for Obama:

Do you own or work for a small business with 50 or less employees?

If the answer is yes, then layoffs are in your immediate future should Sen Obama be elected President.

His tax plan is nothing more than good ol' leftist class-warfare demogougery....
Get the poor and the working class pissed off at the rich talking about "your fair share" and free this and free that, and promising to punish the rich for being rich. I mean the rich couldn't possibly have gotten that way through brains and hard work, they must have cheated somehow.

So the hood rats and the trailer trash, and the unionized hand-to-mouth workers vote the dude in...cuz change is good an sh!t.

Then what?
The dude goes through with his promise force the rich to pay more taxes and to force businesses to provide more benefits.

Then what?
Then the rich stop investing. The rich stop risking their capital in the sorts of ventures that create growth and jobs for not-rich schlubs like you and me and instead spend more on lawyers and accountancts to protect the wealth they have. But then the Harvard educated Lawyer running for President already knows that.

What else?
Small business like snowmobile dealerships go under because their customers can't afford to buy new sled's, and they can't afford to pay the burden of more taxes and more benefits so they lay off employees. Ironically it's the shop guys that typically go first which is a double whammy because most sledders who are hanging on to older sleds need more servicing not less. Small businesses in general are going to contract and lay people off in order to survive.

Basically, any tax plan that hurts your employer hurts you. Think about it.

IMO any sledder who votes for liberals is a fool.

Here Here!! Give this man a Beer
VERY good points!

 

[ruffryder]

The first $8,950 (standard deduction of $5,450 plus the one personal exemption of $3,500) you make, you don't pay taxes obviously.

Yes, a large number of "tax payers" pay no federal income taxes.

That's 32% for the math challenged.

I am slow so it takes me a while.. but the quote said "faces no tax liability during filing of income taxes.

Is this include those that schedule there income taxes so the net zero (on the final tax bill) during tax time? I mean, I get money back every year, but I am not netting zero for the whole year..... unfortunately.

So 32% net pay zero income tax for the year?

Whom are we to assume this 32% is? What percentage are retirees and those drawing from fixed incomes? What percentage are disabled or veterans? What percentage of these are families?

I guess I want to know so I can be part of that group..

I got some digging to do.....

 

[Wade]

I am slow so it takes me a while.. but the quote said "faces no tax liability during filing of income taxes.

Is this include those that schedule there income taxes so the net zero (on the final tax bill) during tax time? I mean, I get money back every year, but I am not netting zero for the whole year..... unfortunately.

So 32% net pay zero income tax for the year?

Whom are we to assume this 32% is? What percentage are retirees and those drawing from fixed incomes? What percentage are disabled or veterans? What percentage of these are families?

The 32% for 2006, was 32% of "filed income tax returns" (each return covers multiple people) where for zero dollars owed to the federal government, for federal income tax only. They were trying to make a point, and left out payroll tax, which isn't a tax, but a retirement supposedly and medical insurance. So, all these people payed between 9.2% down some incalculably negative number.

In 2006 they estimated 41% of American citizens didn't pay any Federal Income Taxes.

Adding to this figure the 15 million households and individuals who file no tax return at all, roughly 121 million Americans—or 41 percent of the U.S. population—will be completely outside the federal income tax system in 2006. This total includes those who pay no tax, and those who pay some tax upfront and are later refunded the full amount of the tax paid or more.

In 2008, they assume that number is close to 45%.

Also in 2006, Earned Income Tax Credit (EITC) paid 22.4 million "tax returns" $43.7 billion. So, they averaged $2000 bucks each. That's money that can make your taxes negative.

I can't find info about retirees or anything. I thought about that also. There should be data about occupation, and tax rate. That info is part of your return. Later.

 

[MN_Nole]

Serious question for any Snowester committed to, or thinking about voting for Obama:

Do you own or work for a small business with 50 or less employees?

If the answer is yes, then layoffs are in your immediate future should Sen Obama be elected President.

His tax plan is nothing more than good ol' leftist class-warfare demogougery....
Get the poor and the working class pissed off at the rich talking about "your fair share" and free this and free that, and promising to punish the rich for being rich. I mean the rich couldn't possibly have gotten that way through brains and hard work, they must have cheated somehow.

So the hood rats and the trailer trash, and the unionized hand-to-mouth workers vote the dude in...cuz change is good an sh!t.

Then what?
The dude goes through with his promise force the rich to pay more taxes and to force businesses to provide more benefits.

Then what?
Then the rich stop investing. The rich stop risking their capital in the sorts of ventures that create growth and jobs for not-rich schlubs like you and me and instead spend more on lawyers and accountancts to protect the wealth they have. But then the Harvard educated Lawyer running for President already knows that.

What else?
Small business like snowmobile dealerships go under because their customers can't afford to buy new sled's, and they can't afford to pay the burden of more taxes and more benefits so they lay off employees. Ironically it's the shop guys that typically go first which is a double whammy because most sledders who are hanging on to older sleds need more servicing not less. Small businesses in general are going to contract and lay people off in order to survive.

Basically, any tax plan that hurts your employer hurts you. Think about it.

IMO any sledder who votes for liberals is a fool.

Have to agree with snowdrifter.
He gives a great speach, and to me he seems to be appealing to the crowd not the issues. .
Personal oppinion when put comes to shut up. he is lost. Just like the car salesman he is, he talks great, with out any substance, he has shown no true carracter, in the face of adversity. To say change for change sake is one thing, but what has e changed.

 

[Wade]

Actually, they can tax the rich any way they want. The end result will be the same. You can only tax rich people so hard, and they will just figure out a way around it. They aren't stupid, and they have better access to the political machine than the common man.

But, it will hurt those of us, that work for someone else. Rich people apply their mental energy towards putting pressure on the system, to create loopholes for them. And, they won't see a benefit in creating jobs. It's risk versus reward, little reward due to taxes, less reason to take a risk.

Every time our profits are down, we put on a hiring freeze. Everytime profits are up, we expand, and hire people. If taxes are the difference between profitable, and not profitable, the end result is easy to determin.

 

[XC700116]

The argument was that they already planned to have their taxes as a payment. You remove the payment illegally (which is what MH was talking about) and the business plan doesn't change. Unless of course you have all the accountants in on the tax fraud.

Then why not increase tax fraud investigation and collection (which by the way the IRS added something on the lines of a couple thousand more investigators this year) and go after the people committing fraud. Instead he plans on increasing taxes on the "rich" to make up the difference? If he actually made the IRS enforce everything half of his buddies would wind up in jail Ala Tony Resco.

COME ON!!!!! Think Dude.

So lets punish everyone for the actions of a few. Sounds like the liberal argument for every one of their targets - Gun owners, Motorized recreationalists, Big business, ect.

 

[MTdream]

why is it no one calls these charlatans what they are????

Obama personal giving between 2000-2007 was a minimum of .4% and maximum of 6.7%

Obama income this last year- $4.2 Million...

yet he wants to tax the rich more...why not just give more? no one is stopping him from giving more? the tax form even allows you to give more if you want...

 

[ruffryder]

I can't find info about retirees or anything. I thought about that also. There should be data about occupation, and tax rate. That info is part of your return. Later.

I have been trying to find info on population vs. income, trying to see how many people earn what income in the US... been looking for a couple of weeks..

It amazes me the amount of information it takes to talk about these issues. It is huge, and I think this is the exception to trying to find the data, references and such for a given topic.

 

[ruffryder]

Then why not increase tax fraud investigation and collection (which by the way the IRS added something on the lines of a couple thousand more investigators this year) and go after the people committing fraud. Instead he plans on increasing taxes on the "rich" to make up the difference? If he actually made the IRS enforce everything half of his buddies would wind up in jail Ala Tony Resco.

I thought that was what cmantl1 said Obama was going to do?...

he plans to tax the many multi-million dollar companies that didnt pay them last year (millions of dollars that the IRS ignored)

 

[XC700116]

Well, That's what Cmantle said not Obama. He says he's raising taxes on those that make over 250K.

Actually Cmantle said

he plans to tax the many multi-million dollar companies that didnt pay them last year (millions of dollars that the IRS ignored)

So is he going to only tax those that didn't pay them last year? No, he's going to tax them all.

 

[ruffryder]

Well, That's what Cmantle said not Obama. He says he's raising taxes on those that make over 250K.

Actually Cmantle said

So is he going to only tax those that didn't pay them last year? No, he's going to tax them all.

I cede the point, you are correct.. Any other topics I can put my foot in my mouth for? Don't answer that...

 

[XC700116]

I cede the point, you are correct.. Any other topics I can put my foot in my mouth for? Don't answer that...

Well all in all at least I got a chuckle after my 14 hr day of he!! Catch ya later.

 

[MTdream]

I have been trying to find info on population vs. income, trying to see how many people earn what income in the US... been looking for a couple of weeks..

It amazes me the amount of information it takes to talk about these issues. It is huge, and I think this is the exception to trying to find the data, references and such for a given topic.

did you look at link to US IRS data I posted above?