SNOWEST IS GETTING GREATY

[backcountryislife]

Yes I did, and it IS coming.

The next major step for SnoWest is going to be the upgrade from V3 to V4 of vBulleten. This is a MAJOR software change for us and is going to take some time to get implemented properly so we do NOT loose any threads or posts or member accounts or ect..

Once we have the platform upgraded to V4, then there will be a series of discussion with all of the Premium Members on a long list of upgrade Modules, Events, New Forums, ect.. I will speak with them and get their input as we being rebuilding the forums, for next fall. This will be happening all over the course of the Spring and summer. The Premium Members will have a lot of input on how we re-shape the forums for next season. They took a stand on behalf of SnoWest in spite of all the ridicule some of them had to endure.

There is a HUGE amount of work ahead of us over the next 6 months.

And all the while we will be working to get more of our current members to be more active and participatory at the same time.

We have plenty of "hot bodies" on the forum every day.
We just need to convince them to come out of the shadows and start posting without fear of retaliation. And make NO MISTAKE ABOUT IT, that is the #1 reason why so many of our members will not post in public. I get the PMs from them telling me so. They are afraid of being attacked/beaten up by other long standing members for opening their mouth.

There is still a WEALTH of knowledge and experience here on SnoWest.
We just have to bring it out.

I hate to harp on the point that many of us have made... but we could give a crap less about the software, or the version, or the little features. In order to gain more members, YOU NEED CONTENT. PERIOD. CONTENT. I don't know how many times people have said this, but you just don't get the frustration that we have with your way of looking at it. We're here for information, offer me a reason why SNOWEST is giving me information I can't get without paying & you've got a winner. For an example of the kind of stuff that's useful, check out snow tech magazine, they've got it figured out, useful information instead of fluff.

I'll admit, the dig. copy of the mag IS that content for many, but I get it for free & don't want it, so I'm not going to pay for that.

You give us some kind of tutorials, some way of learning that we didn't have before, then we'll talk. The problem though right now is that people are leaving & many are not coming back, you need something NOW, not next year. If you couldn't implement the changes (the positive ones) quickly, you should not have gone to a pay structure so quickly.

Just from my perspective, the dig. mag aside, give me a reason to pay that I CAN NOT GET from BCR or any of the others... you do that & even the pains in the arses like me "might" even rationalize why they need to subscribe!

I think a partnership with someone like funoutfitters would be a start to what I'm talking about, they seem willing to offer real content in exchange for exposure, work out an advertising/ content swap & you've got a little bit of what I mean. I don't think they're alone in being willing to be a useful resource either, I know there are other companies that would be willing to work in similar ways. The right partnership could be a boon for all of us, even the boys at HP, as much as I'd love to not see them make a penny

Going back to what I keep saying, you need to work on retention. Right now people still look, they may not post as much, but it's still a stop for a bit & look, catch them now before they turn the corner.


You know, I thought about leaving, but it's more fun to be a thorn in your side!!

 

[mtn_extreme]

I will give my reasons for not posting like I used too (and I have been her for awhile and used to post alot). Every time I come to this site lately, there are those that are doing their best to convince admin that the new way is wrong and it needs to go back to free. I think EVERYONE on here has heard it enough, it is flooding the site to the point that it has taken over........and frankly, I'm tired of reading it. As Christopher said, when the powers to be finally convince the naysayers to either accept or go away, those of us that want to converse about sledding and sleds will again start posting.

my 02

 

[neverenoughsnow]

Lets rebuild

( For an example of the kind of stuff that's useful, check out snow tech magazine, they've got it figured out, useful information instead of fluff.

The problem though right now is that people are leaving & many are not coming back, you need something NOW, not next year. If you couldn't implement the changes (the positive ones) quickly, you should not have gone to a pay structure so quickly.

Going back to what I keep saying, you need to work on retention. Right now people still look, they may not post as much, but it's still a stop for a bit & look, catch them now before they turn the corner.


You know, I thought about leaving, but it's more fun to be a thorn in your side!! [/QUOTE])Quotes from backcountrylife.




Alot of people, will never come back. This change has opened the door to other forums, and they now are the ones with the most people. Snowest was the best forum for mountain riders, now they all searched for a place to land. Now, instead of one place we have many. Not what any of us wanted. I liked being able to go to one place for a mountain riding forum. I believe that the damage done is too deep, to fix the site, for it to return to its glory, it will never happen. The strength now of the Dark Side is strong. It would take long strides like paying people to join to bring it back. we all know the free magazines are a joke. Yes, i fell for it, but i will never buy anything they publish again, EVER.....

 

[backcountryislife]

I will give my reasons for not posting like I used too (and I have been her for awhile and used to post alot). Every time I come to this site lately, there are those that are doing their best to convince admin that the new way is wrong and it needs to go back to free. I think EVERYONE on here has heard it enough, it is flooding the site to the point that it has taken over........and frankly, I'm tired of reading it. As Christopher said, when the powers to be finally convince the naysayers to either accept or go away, those of us that want to converse about sledding and sleds will again start posting.

my 02

M E, so when you come to snowest, is this the only section you come to???

I've got to disagree 100%. It has been months since I've seen any kind of post about people saying it should be free in any of the main forums. That
ship has sailed.

This section is the only place that I've seen anything like this lately, and this is exactly where these discussions belong.


btw, if you want to talk about sleds... how bout posting in the cat forum, it could use you & many of the others that don't post anymore. We talk about sleds over there...

 

[DTG]

By reading the heading to this Thread, all is does is makes SnoWest look more "Great". "Greaty" hahahaha.

 

[Polar Express]

Christopher,

I'd like to participate in this reasonable, respectful discussion with you, and the other members. But, I'm going to write this publicly. I value this internet thing, but right now, is one of those times I really wish we were all sitting around a table with a pitcher of something cold.

I don't expect you to remember who I am, but you might. (We have exchanged PM's, and you have always responded quickly, and reasonably, I appreciate that. Thank you.) I have been pretty steady with my objections to how this was handled, and the resulting direction the SW site is going.

Christopher, a few posts ago, you wrote that you "get it" with regards to several descriptors of the SW membership. I respectfully disagree. I don't think you 'get it'. Sledders are not cheap. Not as a whole, not as a general attitude. There have been posts that detailed the costs associated with this lifestyle/hobby and calling us cheap is narrow minded, inaccurate, and flat out rude. Do we exercise discretion where we spend our dollars? Yes. This hobby is too expensive not too. And with the economy the way it is, we are even more careful, but labeling us 'cheap' is a poor decision.

I consider myself new to this forum. I don't have that high of a post count. and I've only been a sled owner since '06. But.... I have been here long enough to confirm what others have written. The traffic with useful content has all but ground to a screeching halt. And, I was a member when the 'volunteer to pay' feature was in place, and I promise I NEVER saw it. I would have gladly donated to help maintain the place. I have done this on other sites voluntarily.

Backcountry wrote it, and I'll venture a slight tweak to his statement: Technical content. I don't give a hoot about drama, who is dating who, or who thinks whoever is gay. That stuff can be found on facebook or myspace if you want. Do I enjoy the social aspect of a forum? Yes, of course, but that is not the primary reason folks come/came here.

I would love to see this site restored to its former glory. It was a great place. But, sadly, I think the damage is done, and I don't think you'll get the heavy hitters (the folks with the tons of knowledge to share) back. I'm not a genius by any stretch, but I'm not stupid, and I hold a technical degree, with a fair amount of life experience in various industries. I dare say it, but at the moment, I have chosen not to post any data to a public thread here any more. If the attitude of the management here changes for the better, I will start posting here again.

You might be happy or content with the numbers that you posted. Perhaps from the experience you have had with other forums, those numbers are good or acceptable? I don't know. Sheer post volume is down, and the quality of the content of the posts that are being made is not even a smidgen of what it used to be. You can look up my history, and you'll see I've logged in almost every day, but you'll also see I don't stay long.

I remember that you promised lots of new features/events, etc. with the new format. And, you have not denied it. I will echo what has been written that the implementation is not on a good pace. It is my opinion that the powers that be did not think this through very well. With all of the discussions objecting to a pay site this past fall/early winter, you should have recognized that if you were going to ruffle feathers that much, the promised features should have been ready to work when the 'pay switch' was turned on.

It seems to me that whoever has been making the decisions around SW has had some pretty thick blinders on. Maybe there is only 10 of us that are vocal against what/how has happened. And, I have no access to your PM's, (I don't want access, just to be clear) Did you know that less than 2% of the population of the colonies participated in the Revolutionary War? Now, I'm not trying to compare a website forum to the founding of our country, but the concept is similar: there are a vocal and active few that are willing to stand up for the majority if they feel it's right.

Ultimately, it's a loosing battle I'm fighting, I don't own any part of this, so HP, the mods or Admin owe me nothing. Remember the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules......

I'm out of time, but there is another issue I'd like to bring to your attention, but it will have to wait.

I wish we could shake hands and chat about this in person, but for now, this will have to do.

PE

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

polar, thank you for that, in a nut shell you eloquently stated what I feel and have felt since this whole deal started..I just couldnt put it in words in such a way ......thank you.....

 

[Polar Express]

AK,

I was tired, and I wanted to join my beautiful wife for dinner, so I didn't get to spend the time I wanted on it. I hope it came across respectfully, and sincerely, as that is how I intend it.

I think the 'heavy hitters' are still lurking, they invested too much time into this site over the years to just walk away. It certainly appears to me that they still care. I kinda think of it as visiting the grave site of a lost friend.

I don't like how I've been treated, (and I don't consider myself in the heavy-hitter crew) and I REALLY don't like how those major contributors have been treated. I'm not happy with how they are spending their money, so why should I give them mine? It's eerie how similar I think some of these issues are to the current state of the government.

PE

 

[christopher]

Christopher, a few posts ago, you wrote that you "get it" with regards to several descriptors of the SW membership. I respectfully disagree. I don't think you 'get it'. Sledders are not cheap. Not as a whole, not as a general attitude.

PE

Allow me to clarify.
One of the most consistent protests that was leveled against the change to the site was that sledders would never pay for anything that they could find a way to get for free. Thus the 2.7 cents per day we were asking for membership to this forum was intolerable to them because they perceived they could obtain the same experience at a different location at no direct cost to themselves.

I agree with you 100% in that this is NOT A CHEAP SPORT.
Far from it.
It is one of the more expensive hobbies out there that I know of.

In defense of HP/SW...

Several people on many occasions have stated that HP/SW obviously didn't know what they were getting into with this conversion. That they did not think it through, or fully appreciate how traumatic the conversion would be.

Just for the record.
They Knew, and we discussed it at length. By the end of October it was pretty obvious that it was going to be a very hard road and that the hostility level was going to be very very high against these changes.

But as I had said before, this was a change they had been contemplating for 5 years and finally decided to move on. They knew they would suffer losses. But they also knew they would rebuild and create something new that didn't exist before. Give these guys a little credit. They figured out a successful business model that has been working for over 3 decades now.

SW will survive these changes, and continue to grow.

And YES, we need to work on encouraging our members to post more, and on drawing out more of the talent and knowledge that lurks in our shadows. (of which there is far more than most people realize).

 

[christopher]

I think the 'heavy hitters' are still lurking, they invested too much time into this site over the years to just walk away. It certainly appears to me that they still care.

I can tell you, that even though several of our members have said they left the site and will never come back, their accounts show that they are still logging in, navigating around and reading the posts, even if they are not posting.

We suspect they are watching and waiting to see what becomes of us over time.

 

[christopher]

I wish we could shake hands and chat about this in person, but for now, this will have to do.

PE

If you, or anyone else in this discussion, finds themselves in this corner of Idaho, I would be more than happy to meet with you.

 

[Slick]

I can tell you, that even though several of our members have said they left the site and will never come back, their accounts show that they are still logging in, navigating around and reading the posts, even if they are not posting.

We suspect they are watching and waiting to see what becomes of us over time.

Keep dreaming. what you aren't giving credence to is that the principles they demonstrated to make you want them on the 4m are the same principles that'll keep them from returning.
Your mistake was in assuming they would change them to benefit you.

 

[Nubulin]

Christopher,

I'd like to participate in this reasonable, respectful discussion with you, and the other members. But, I'm going to write this publicly. I value this internet thing, but right now, is one of those times I really wish we were all sitting around a table with a pitcher of something cold.

I don't expect you to remember who I am, but you might. (We have exchanged PM's, and you have always responded quickly, and reasonably, I appreciate that. Thank you.) I have been pretty steady with my objections to how this was handled, and the resulting direction the SW site is going.

Christopher, a few posts ago, you wrote that you "get it" with regards to several descriptors of the SW membership. I respectfully disagree. I don't think you 'get it'. Sledders are not cheap. Not as a whole, not as a general attitude. There have been posts that detailed the costs associated with this lifestyle/hobby and calling us cheap is narrow minded, inaccurate, and flat out rude. Do we exercise discretion where we spend our dollars? Yes. This hobby is too expensive not too. And with the economy the way it is, we are even more careful, but labeling us 'cheap' is a poor decision.

I consider myself new to this forum. I don't have that high of a post count. and I've only been a sled owner since '06. But.... I have been here long enough to confirm what others have written. The traffic with useful content has all but ground to a screeching halt. And, I was a member when the 'volunteer to pay' feature was in place, and I promise I NEVER saw it. I would have gladly donated to help maintain the place. I have done this on other sites voluntarily.

Backcountry wrote it, and I'll venture a slight tweak to his statement: Technical content. I don't give a hoot about drama, who is dating who, or who thinks whoever is gay. That stuff can be found on facebook or myspace if you want. Do I enjoy the social aspect of a forum? Yes, of course, but that is not the primary reason folks come/came here.

I would love to see this site restored to its former glory. It was a great place. But, sadly, I think the damage is done, and I don't think you'll get the heavy hitters (the folks with the tons of knowledge to share) back. I'm not a genius by any stretch, but I'm not stupid, and I hold a technical degree, with a fair amount of life experience in various industries. I dare say it, but at the moment, I have chosen not to post any data to a public thread here any more. If the attitude of the management here changes for the better, I will start posting here again.

You might be happy or content with the numbers that you posted. Perhaps from the experience you have had with other forums, those numbers are good or acceptable? I don't know. Sheer post volume is down, and the quality of the content of the posts that are being made is not even a smidgen of what it used to be. You can look up my history, and you'll see I've logged in almost every day, but you'll also see I don't stay long.

I remember that you promised lots of new features/events, etc. with the new format. And, you have not denied it. I will echo what has been written that the implementation is not on a good pace. It is my opinion that the powers that be did not think this through very well. With all of the discussions objecting to a pay site this past fall/early winter, you should have recognized that if you were going to ruffle feathers that much, the promised features should have been ready to work when the 'pay switch' was turned on.

It seems to me that whoever has been making the decisions around SW has had some pretty thick blinders on. Maybe there is only 10 of us that are vocal against what/how has happened. And, I have no access to your PM's, (I don't want access, just to be clear) Did you know that less than 2% of the population of the colonies participated in the Revolutionary War? Now, I'm not trying to compare a website forum to the founding of our country, but the concept is similar: there are a vocal and active few that are willing to stand up for the majority if they feel it's right.

Ultimately, it's a loosing battle I'm fighting, I don't own any part of this, so HP, the mods or Admin owe me nothing. Remember the golden rule: he who has the gold makes the rules......

I'm out of time, but there is another issue I'd like to bring to your attention, but it will have to wait.

I wish we could shake hands and chat about this in person, but for now, this will have to do.

PE

Well said.

I too agree that the new regime "doesn't get it". My participation in this forum is about 10% of what it once was and I seldom see posts that give much real technical info. Its really sad since interacting with the other users on SW has been a big part of my passion for tweaking and modding. Now this site is just a seldom visited disappointment.

RIP SW.

 

[IceCap]

There has been good conversation and debate from both sides. I am aware that I do not know the details of why so many members have decided to wait and see.

I chose this site over the others because of quality of layout, valuable information and high volume of members.
The other sites could not and did not provide that for me, so it was an easy decision for me to pay $10.00 a year to use this site.
I have to say I am a little disappointed that so many members have chosen to be silent or are waiting to decide.
The traffic has slowed down on this site and unfortunately if that continues it means this site has less value.
I really hope SW will do something to bring back the numbers. I know there will always be a certain percentage of members that will not come back.

Moving forward SW needs to continually provide a better product, more value to the customer than the competition and that will win customers.

Unfortunately we are now divided and I would like the snowmobiling community to come together in one strong dominant site.

I don't like to jump from forum to forum to find the info I need.

For the time I spend I am willing to pay for a quality site rather than join a lackluster site.

 

[backcountryislife]

Icecap, the other forums are free.... you don't have to choose.

As for the content that isn't being provided by users... this is exactly my point, SW needs to make an effort to gain USEFUL content to make the site worthwhile again.

 

[christopher]

Keep dreaming. what you aren't giving credence to is that the principles they demonstrated to make you want them on the 4m are the same principles that'll keep them from returning.
Your mistake was in assuming they would change them to benefit you.

Thanks for jumping in Slick.
Its been weeks since you last posted.

You're really a perfect example of the point I was making.

You log in, your keeping an eye on things, but for the most part, you have chosen not to participate and rather to just read.

In the last 40 days almost the only posts you have made have been in the threads like this one that are critical of SnoWest.

 

[backcountryislife]

So by not responding to what I was saying, I would assume that means that you guys plan on doing nothing useful anytime soon?

It's frustrating, you respond in terms of things that 99% of us could care less about, but you think that answers the question. We're not here for a spiffy forum, we're here for information.

 

[Slick]

Thanks for jumping in Slick.
Its been weeks since you last posted.

You're really a perfect example of the point I was making.

You log in, your keeping an eye on things, but for the most part, you have chosen not to participate and rather to just read.

In the last 40 days almost the only posts you have made have been in the threads like this one that are critical of SnoWest.

Well thanks, but I hardly think I'm perfect.

But you are right in a way. This is a perfect example.......I make a post critical of the situation that has developed....and you, instead of addressing the actual post, use it to further try to convince the masses that all is well. The situation has evolved almost comically to a point where it seems that if it weren't for the posts by admin and mods, there wouldn't even be much reason for me to lurk, its certainly not to gain any info about sleds or the sport.
Should set off a few alarm bells somewhere that one of the most active threads lately seems to be an obvious spin attempt by the admin involving a situation that almost any experienced sledder would find quite embarrassing. The sheep see this humble pie crap as admirable, but most see it as proof that you and the powers that be, actually are out of step with the sport and the mindset of the participants that you are proffessing to be promoting.

 

[ruffryder]

Well thanks, but I hardly think I'm perfect.

haha... example, not person.

 

[SilverGriz]

Man we have some real window lickers

LMAO...Window Lickers was the name of our softball team a few years back. We had the tongue from the Rolling Stones cover on the front of our shirts.