SNOWEST FORUMS: Member Comments on "Letter to All Members"

[dsp81]

Give it a rest. Gotta have the last word, don't ya?


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I hereby nominate this the most unintentionally ironic post, ever.

 

[sledhead122]

My current account

What will happen to the account i have now with this new change

 

[MtnDoo]

DSP81:

 

[ruffryder]

I hereby nominate this the most unintentionally ironic post, ever.

I second the motion... ha ha

 

[mit]

I do NOT consider my snowmaching a recreational endeavor. Where are the people and businesses that think the way I do? As for paying for the use of this forum. No I will not. Thank you for the email.

 

[motojunkie101]

I am seriously at a loss for how some of you guys are posting incorrect information. I completely understand that emotions are running high right now, but please open your ears (or eyes for that matter) and read the full post on the upcoming changes, and please don't read between the lines because this HAS NOT BEEN FINALIZED. Stick around and give the site a chance, I am NOT saying pay for a membership and then see if you like it. I AM saying stop jumping the gun, and see for yourself if you like the new content when it gets here, and then if you like it, join up and support this site AS WELL AS AN ORGANIZATION SUCH AS SAWS OR BRC. If the new content is not what you want, then stick around in the free section and enjoy the new servers at ZERO COST to you.
You are not paying for the site as it stands right now. You would be paying for a revised SnoWest that includes info from different mfg companies as well as from the big 4, online subscription to the mag....and that is just the starting point! Y'all are not taking the additional content into account when you are making your knee-jerk responses and threatening to leave.

Its been said by nearly every mod on here....Stick around to see if you like the changes before you make your decision. We are just asking for folks to keep a cool head about this so you can all make a rational decision when the time arrives.

 

[winter brew]

I am seriously at a loss for how some of you guys are posting incorrect information. I completely understand that emotions are running high right now, but please open your ears (or eyes for that matter) and read the full post on the upcoming changes, and please don't read between the lines because this HAS NOT BEEN FINALIZED. Stick around and give the site a chance, I am NOT saying pay for a membership and then see if you like it. I AM saying stop jumping the gun, and see for yourself if you like the new content when it gets here, and then if you like it, join up and support this site AS WELL AS AN ORGANIZATION SUCH AS SAWS OR BRC. If the new content is not what you want, then stick around in the free section and enjoy the new servers at ZERO COST to you.
You are not paying for the site as it stands right now. You would be paying for a revised SnoWest that includes info from different mfg companies as well as from the big 4, online subscription to the mag....and that is just the starting point! Y'all are not taking the additional content into account when you are making your knee-jerk responses and threatening to leave.

Its been said by nearly every mod on here....Stick around to see if you like the changes before you make your decision. We are just asking for folks to keep a cool head about this so you can all make a rational decision when the time arrives.

That'll be about enough of that common sense thing!!!

People are getting pretty emotional over this whole deal. It's just a few dollars for something that people are obviously very passionate about (see the hundreds of emotional posts for proof). If you are really just going to another site rather than pay the HUGE sum of $$, then do it already and prove this site is of no value to you.

 

[snoluver]

As it has been stated over and over again, the reason most of us come here is to gain valuble information from other snowmobilers. Snowest does not provide the content!!! The majority of usefull posters are not computer geeks. We are mechanics, gear heads, machinists, ect. We're not good spellers. We type with one finger. We don't care about bars and graphs and little boxes, telling us how many times we posted or what our reputation is, or any of the other "bells and whistles". We don't care about how many ram, or gigibite, or megapixles, or whatever else computer geek mumbojumbo you want to spew out. We want to talk to other snowmobilers, period.

That being said (again) the 10 or even 30 dollars is not the issue. Most would be happy to pay if they new they were going to get the same info, but I personaly fear you will loose a large chunk of usefull posters simply because they will not bother to come here if they have to pay. There are a thousand other sights out there for free, they will just move on. Then what do you have? What are you selling? What am I paying for?

Think long and hard about this one guys. And maybe start listening to your "customers".

 

[MPS]

x-guy this is killing me, but I will be good!



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[CatWoman]

I wish this kind of time and energy could be put into writing in support of keeping our lands open. Could have had tons of email sent out all over in the US and Canada.

Please do keep calm heads, and no need for personal attacks.

 

[christopher]

I don't think anyone believes that all 35,000 members will pay, considering only 14K are active. Of that 14,000 I would think 4,000 would be a good goal for right now. That would be $40K which based on Christopher's previous post would repay for the cost of the new servers. I would think that would be the goal for the first year.

I'm going back to the trash, wait I can't someone moved us to Fouled Plug
Just playing with ya Saint Christopher .

Not a problem boss.

We will build up the paid membership one member at a time. Based on the huge number of PMs I have gotten from people who do not want to post to this thread, I think we are going to be OK.

It will take time, and there are MANY who want to sit back and watch to see what we do, and only then will they make a decision.

 

[christopher]

ha ha

I'm beginning to feel sorry for you Chris.

OK, NOW I am worried!!

 

[RedKitty]

hard to keep up with this thread

I know it feels wrong to pay for the forum and I still haven't decided if I will or not, (but i probably will at least try it) Several people have talked about how this site should be advertiser supported and let me tell you why it might be a bit hard to sell advertising space on here. And its the same reason why the pay forum idea doesn't work... why pay when you can get it for free? Why pay for a a cute banner ad when you can just start threads about your wonderful new product and essentially advertise for free? I remember a year or two ago there was some kind of feud going on between these 2 makers of lightweight hoods, I was looking at buying one but I could not get any credible information from either because they were too busy assaulting each other. That being said I have made purchases from klimusa and 509 goggles (very happy with both) and I have no idea what they pay to advertise here, but before you drive away even a few people you should maybe talk to them about how they feel the site should be run.

Just a question for Christopher here.. Is this a foregone conclusion, or is this part of a fact finding campaign before any final decision is made? There is a Japanese Proverb that says if it's good do it quickly, I think in this particular case perhaps a more useful proverb would be "the wise man looks carefully at his feet while crossing the river". Good Luck either way, and I love snowest.com forums.

 

[christopher]

No offense, but you can get advise from Big John, Kelsey at RKT, Joey from Dynamoe Joe, Bill Cudney and many others on other websites...I won't mention the site....but is related to Ski-Doo and about talking...

I also notice that Christopher is picking and chosing (generally) the posts that "praise" the cost. He is also pulling only the agreeing statements, yet overlooking the overeall disagreement with the post and is ignoring (for the most part) the posts that do not "praise" the idea.

Not really.
I am reading every single post on this thread.
For those that are just attacking, there is little or no reason for me to reply. No reason to get into another argument where there is nothing I can do to change their mind, or convince them that I am not some evil ogre.

 

[christopher]

So what going to happen to all of the advertising when they realize their target group is now having to pay to use this forum ?

It just seems to me this idea is hindering the very thing that created it.

Don't get me wrong, $10 is trivial to me, but paid forums turn alot of good people away

There is a very real risk in going in this direction. But it is a risk, that after much debate and consideration they have decided to undertake. In the end, it will come down to members like you to decide if this will result in a stronger better SnoWest or not.

We will know soon enough though I suspect.

 

[christopher]

If I can't get the info I need for free I will gladly pay $10/yr.
This site has so much info on it I don't know why anybody would leave it, I don't even bother to ask my dealer a question because they wouldn't know the answer anyway.
It would be a shame to see people leave this site without giving the new version a fair trial.

Thanks for being willing to hang in with us and see what happens!

 

[christopher]

This would be a very good point but...for what ever reason, this sport has some of the "cheapest" people around. How many people drive 6 plus hours bypassing 2 or 3 dealers on the way to save $200-$300?? How many times are you at a sled show and over hear,"will you give me a better price?" How many times do you here from other riders," I get my parts for cost or 10% over?" What about the huge amount of people that buy oe parts online for a 10% discount rather than support their local dealers?? Just so you know, I'm not one of these people but all the people in my riding group are!

My point is everyone who throws up your argument is not considering that these type of people outweigh the "I don't care what it costs crowd or the $30 is nothing crowd". And they're this way because they can "afford" to be this way. It's an attitude in the sledding community that is very prevalent and more so than other industry's that I'm involved in.

Again, this is not me. Just the world I know.

I just hope christopher is right.

On this one I have to agree.

We looked at a lot of different possible price points for the membership before we settled in on the $14.99-$9.99 range for them.

But in the end, the general consensus was that it really wouldn't make ANY different at all if it was $4.99, or $14.99

What was going to matter is that it was anything but free. There are those who will pay for something that is of value to them, and there are those who will not, no matter the cost.

We have seen that play our VERY CLEARLY in this thread. And knowing that, we settled on a price point that we thought would fund the site with a reasonable number of committed members who would choose to stick around and help us build this place into something more than it has ever been.

 

[christopher]

I'm not calling you a liar, I realize on paper this place doesn't make any money.

But I'm also sure they have spent countless hours trying to put a figure on what this place has really earned them.

No business does something for nothing for 11 years, much less go in the hole.

Thats not counting the sweet little write off they get every year come tax time.

IF YOU QUITE TREATING US LIKE WETARDS, GAINING A LITTLE RESPECT WOULD BE MUCH EASIER

Thanks for clarifying that.
While I am not privy to the P&L sheets for the company, they made it pretty darn clear to me that the forums have been provided more as a service than anything else. That is why for the last 11 years you have NOT seen any regular presence from anyone at Harris Publishing nor SnoWest Mag.

 

[christopher]

I have to agree, i think when all is said and done, we will NOT see a big increase in users, they will not know the beauty of Snowest, like us that have been here long enough to know its worth it. Blind users will see the $10 fee and turn around, so i guess what im saying is, i hope we still get a decent amount of NEW users, dispite the fee. Time will tell.

For the last 11 years there have never been ANY real recruiting or advertising for these forums. It has all been by word of mouth or Goggle.

We will begin a concerted effort to promote the forums and what they have to offer to recruit new members to come and join on a regular basis, month after month beginning next year. We will be working hard to ensure there is a steady stream of new members coming into the site.

 

[christopher]

The members need to be listened to. You might not be able to do anything but they should be addressed.

Agreed.
I try mighty hard to reply to everyone that contacts me.
I have several thousands PMs to back that up.

I have read from Christopher that he has missed some threads, well I believe that the mods should be making sure that he's aware of all posts.

THey try VERY hard, but not all Mods are equal in their zeal.

That also means that Christopher and Harris Pub. are directly responsible for the mods.

Pretty much.

MountainHorse, are you the one pushing for the changes in the snowmobile sub-forums?

He is heading up the current private discussion on what can be done to make them work BETTER than the current layout.

That discussion will go PUBLIC next week as we propose some possible changes and ask for all the members to comment on which one THEY prefer.