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Boyko
Well-known member
Cool!! And Congratulations, Sled and rider must have been working excellent! What number were you?
Qestions answered #1 VIPEC ECU
- Thread starter brycter
- Start date
Cool!! And Congratulations, Sled and rider must have been working excellent! What number were you?
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northerns4
New member
I would also be sold if there was an iq option. Maybe?
V
Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
V
Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
yes
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TurboMatt
Well-known member
thanks.
I actually talked to Brycter on the phone for awhile and he confirmed that using the secondaries in conjuction is actually his preferred method of fuel control.
He is a great guy to talk to. Very knowledgeable, helpful and friendly.
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TurboMatt
Well-known member
Bryce or Vi-pec could someone talk more about this? Can we run this thing with the stock regulator? I don't see why you couldn't? Obviously the programming with be different.
Ok I will try to give it to you simple..
There is always a delay in a injector being energized. And the injector actually opening. Likewise there is a small delay between the injector deenrgized and the injector closing. The opening times is always longer than the closing time.
If you the voltage in the sled is changing this changes the amount of time an injector opens low voltage slower opening. Higher voltage faster opening times.
We all know that a snowmobile really doesn't have a very good charging system and we are always stressing them to the max.
Well what if you are coming on boost and now you need more fuel to fuel that boost? Sure you can add more fuel in a 5d table to compensate but if your voltage is dropping at all the dead time of the injector is slowing down. Now your fuel gap is farther away the anticipated right. So the injector dead time would need to be rescaled to give you the correct fuel you need into the motor.
If you have a 1:1rising regulator. Your fuel pressure rises as the boost comes on. Giving you a straight differential between manifold pressure and fuel pressure. (Basically your fueling will be consistent) so the only item changing is the voltage now.
When you run a 1:1 you always know that you have enough fuel. Givining you simpler tuning and a more consistent tune throughout the whole map.
By simpler I mean one less thing to worry about. Most people have no idea have many trim maps and mixture maps there really are in a ecu.
Some of them that your stock ecu uses for fueling are
exhaust valve closed map
Exhaust valve open map
egt/tps map
Baro/tps trim map
Ect trim map
Iat trim map
Rpm cut
Knock control
Those are just some of the trim tables that are taking place. They are all overlaid and making adjustment so fast. Why would you want to add more complication to the mix by not running a fp reg. if you don't you have a lot more scaling to take place inside your maps and injector dead time senerios.
The other thing is this
By putting a fp reg in you put less strain on your injectors because you are not running your injectors to the max trying to get enough fuel out of them.
Know there are probably a lot more guys that can put this elegant than I do. You can probably google it and find info better presented.
But I can tell you this, a fp regulator is a very good item to have when tuning on a boosted anything...
There is always a delay in a injector being energized. And the injector actually opening. Likewise there is a small delay between the injector deenrgized and the injector closing. The opening times is always longer than the closing time.
If you the voltage in the sled is changing this changes the amount of time an injector opens low voltage slower opening. Higher voltage faster opening times.
We all know that a snowmobile really doesn't have a very good charging system and we are always stressing them to the max.
Well what if you are coming on boost and now you need more fuel to fuel that boost? Sure you can add more fuel in a 5d table to compensate but if your voltage is dropping at all the dead time of the injector is slowing down. Now your fuel gap is farther away the anticipated right. So the injector dead time would need to be rescaled to give you the correct fuel you need into the motor.
If you have a 1:1rising regulator. Your fuel pressure rises as the boost comes on. Giving you a straight differential between manifold pressure and fuel pressure. (Basically your fueling will be consistent) so the only item changing is the voltage now.
When you run a 1:1 you always know that you have enough fuel. Givining you simpler tuning and a more consistent tune throughout the whole map.
By simpler I mean one less thing to worry about. Most people have no idea have many trim maps and mixture maps there really are in a ecu.
Some of them that your stock ecu uses for fueling are
exhaust valve closed map
Exhaust valve open map
egt/tps map
Baro/tps trim map
Ect trim map
Iat trim map
Rpm cut
Knock control
Those are just some of the trim tables that are taking place. They are all overlaid and making adjustment so fast. Why would you want to add more complication to the mix by not running a fp reg. if you don't you have a lot more scaling to take place inside your maps and injector dead time senerios.
The other thing is this
By putting a fp reg in you put less strain on your injectors because you are not running your injectors to the max trying to get enough fuel out of them.
Know there are probably a lot more guys that can put this elegant than I do. You can probably google it and find info better presented.
But I can tell you this, a fp regulator is a very good item to have when tuning on a boosted anything...
Also with the Vipec ECU , it is nice to have a fuel pressure sensor , comes in handy if sometype of problem arises , i know on my apex i started see and feeling that the sled was not working right , looked at the data log , seen that my fuel pressure was dropping as boost was high , so i had two things that could be doing this , fuel pressure regulator or fuel filter , cleaned filter ( it was plugged ) and problem was fixed .
I get a lot of calls from snow west guys asking how the vipec ecu works different then a add on box. I want to see if I can clear the air and explain this simply.
Ok say you your sensors are a group of people working together. You have the leader or boss. He is the ecu. Now the guy over rpm reports to the boss. So does the guy over throttle position, the guy over air intake temp, the guy over timing, and the guy over baro pressure(elevation).
Now the boss takes the information and writes a letter to the injectors and says Hey our calculations show we need more fuel! Give us 10 points more please. Then he puts it in the mail box and sends it to the the guy over the injectors. Injector man reads the letter and says guys up stairs want more fuel. 10 point to be exact. So then turn the injectors on longer and send a letter back. I received your letter and turned up the fuel.
As soon as the boss gets the letter back the throttle position guys runs through the door the tps has changed from 100% to 20% we need less fuel.
So the boss writes another letter we need less fuel now!
Now this story goes on and on.
Until one day a turbo charger comes to town and says I am going to control all the air in the city and I am going to force feed you guys to get more productivity.
Now the ecu thinks boy how are we going to take care of this? He tries with all his might. Sending letters back and forth. But the problem is the letters he sends are not working right. First he double checks the information coming to him and double checks his information going out. All is correct but the guys down stairs are doing the exact opposite.
The guys down stairs are says what is the boss talking about. His letters look like a mad man wrote them. Letters pasted into words, different colored pen marks and so on. But injector man still does his job. Mad but still does it.
Well there is chaos everywhere in the city now turbo showed up. Some one need to step in and help with this chaos. So mister limp mode police shows up. And says I will find out what is going on here!
He finds that when mister turbo charger showed up he killed the mail man and hired the evil piggy back box mail man. Now this mail man opens every letter and changes the info on the letters. He is taking matters into his own hands. Sometimes the evil mail mans info is just what was needed sometimes it is not.
And the reason why his info sometimes don't work because every other day another guy comes to work. Yesterday it was clutch guy, day before it was Snow condition guy. With this evil mail man can't keep up. Thing just don't go as planned.
This is the senerio with any type of piggy back box. ( I am not saying that they don't work but you can gets since of the chaos.)
Now with a stand alone ecu. the story is the same except there is no mail man. information travels face to face and everyone is in the same meeting. There is open doors nothing no information is locked shut.
It is a totally different way of doing things. It is cleaner, no hiding of information.
I hope this silly story helps a bit
Ok say you your sensors are a group of people working together. You have the leader or boss. He is the ecu. Now the guy over rpm reports to the boss. So does the guy over throttle position, the guy over air intake temp, the guy over timing, and the guy over baro pressure(elevation).
Now the boss takes the information and writes a letter to the injectors and says Hey our calculations show we need more fuel! Give us 10 points more please. Then he puts it in the mail box and sends it to the the guy over the injectors. Injector man reads the letter and says guys up stairs want more fuel. 10 point to be exact. So then turn the injectors on longer and send a letter back. I received your letter and turned up the fuel.
As soon as the boss gets the letter back the throttle position guys runs through the door the tps has changed from 100% to 20% we need less fuel.
So the boss writes another letter we need less fuel now!
Now this story goes on and on.
Until one day a turbo charger comes to town and says I am going to control all the air in the city and I am going to force feed you guys to get more productivity.
Now the ecu thinks boy how are we going to take care of this? He tries with all his might. Sending letters back and forth. But the problem is the letters he sends are not working right. First he double checks the information coming to him and double checks his information going out. All is correct but the guys down stairs are doing the exact opposite.
The guys down stairs are says what is the boss talking about. His letters look like a mad man wrote them. Letters pasted into words, different colored pen marks and so on. But injector man still does his job. Mad but still does it.
Well there is chaos everywhere in the city now turbo showed up. Some one need to step in and help with this chaos. So mister limp mode police shows up. And says I will find out what is going on here!
He finds that when mister turbo charger showed up he killed the mail man and hired the evil piggy back box mail man. Now this mail man opens every letter and changes the info on the letters. He is taking matters into his own hands. Sometimes the evil mail mans info is just what was needed sometimes it is not.
And the reason why his info sometimes don't work because every other day another guy comes to work. Yesterday it was clutch guy, day before it was Snow condition guy. With this evil mail man can't keep up. Thing just don't go as planned.
This is the senerio with any type of piggy back box. ( I am not saying that they don't work but you can gets since of the chaos.)
Now with a stand alone ecu. the story is the same except there is no mail man. information travels face to face and everyone is in the same meeting. There is open doors nothing no information is locked shut.
It is a totally different way of doing things. It is cleaner, no hiding of information.
I hope this silly story helps a bit
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V
Vi-PEC Powersports
Well-known member
What a Bryce!! Good job my men...forgot about the autotune guy in cooperation with the evil mail man trying to oversee the boss decisions...catastrophy.
Vi-pec Powersports
Vi-pec Powersports
OMG...Bryce you made me LMAO with your last post. The way you described that was priceless. I think you should take that same post and creat a new thread starting with that same explanation of aftermarket controllers.
In doing so would allow so many people to understand the functionality and price differances between them all.
JOB WELL DONE...
In doing so would allow so many people to understand the functionality and price differances between them all.
JOB WELL DONE...
I get a lot of calls from snow west guys asking how the vipec ecu works different then a add on box. I want to see if I can clear the air and explain this simply.
Ok say you your sensors are a group of people working together. You have the leader or boss. He is the ecu. Now the guy over rpm reports to the boss. So does the guy over throttle position, the guy over air intake temp, the guy over timing, and the guy over baro pressure(elevation).
Now the boss takes the information and writes a letter to the injectors and says Hey our calculations show we need more fuel! Give us 10 points more please. Then he puts it in the mail box and sends it to the the guy over the injectors. Injector man reads the letter and says guys up stairs want more fuel. 10 point to be exact. So then turn the injectors on longer and send a letter back. I received your letter and turned up the fuel.
As soon as the boss gets the letter back the throttle position guys runs through the door the tps has changed from 100% to 20% we need less fuel.
So the boss writes another letter we need less fuel now!
Now this story goes on and on.
Until one day a turbo charger comes to town and says I am going to control all the air in the city and I am going to force feed you guys to get more productivity.
Now the ecu thinks boy how are we going to take care of this? He tries with all his might. Sending letters back and forth. But the problem is the letters he sends are not working right. First he double checks the information coming to him and double checks his information going out. All is correct but the guys down stairs are doing the exact opposite.
The guys down stairs are says what is the boss talking about. His letters look like a mad man wrote them. Letters pasted into words, different colored pen marks and so on. But injector man still does his job. Mad but still does it.
Well there is chaos everywhere in the city now turbo showed up. Some one need to step in and help with this chaos. So mister limp mode police shows up. And says I will find out what is going on here!
He finds that when mister turbo charger showed up he killed the mail man and hired the evil piggy back box mail man. Now this mail man opens every letter and changes the info on the letters. He is taking matters into his own hands. Sometimes the evil mail mans info is just what was needed sometimes it is not.
And the reason why his info sometimes don't work because every other day another guy comes to work. Yesterday it was clutch guy, day before it was Snow condition guy. With this evil mail man can't keep up. Thing just don't go as planned.
This is the senerio with any type of piggy back box. ( I am not saying that they don't work but you can gets since of the chaos.)
Now with a stand alone ecu. the story is the same except there is no mail man. information travels face to face and everyone is in the same meeting. There is open doors nothing no information is locked shut.
It is a totally different way of doing things. It is cleaner, no hiding of information.
I hope this silly story helps a bit
PM you ?
Hey guys, just setting up mine today on a pro rmk, is the EGT supposed to work? I get a -400 C reading, but the status says ok. I realize few if any people use it for correction, but it would be nice to see work for data logging.
Also setup the knock sensor for monitoring and logging as well, I am using the AN Knk Interface and I do get a reading, this is at idle mind you but I get a reading of 780 on cyl 1&2, doesn't fluctuate except the odd time it goes to zero. I was also trying to use the global knock reading, but it was typically sitting at zero except for the odd time it went to 780. I am not doing any corrections with the knock sensor, again just for monitoring and logging. Does this seem normal for idle readings? Also why does the global knock value seem out of whack?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Also setup the knock sensor for monitoring and logging as well, I am using the AN Knk Interface and I do get a reading, this is at idle mind you but I get a reading of 780 on cyl 1&2, doesn't fluctuate except the odd time it goes to zero. I was also trying to use the global knock reading, but it was typically sitting at zero except for the odd time it went to 780. I am not doing any corrections with the knock sensor, again just for monitoring and logging. Does this seem normal for idle readings? Also why does the global knock value seem out of whack?
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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