had the new flash put in this am took it for a short ride. 100 percent better! crisp response, bobble gone, tachs 8350 rpm will give it a better run tomorrow but as of now I'm much happier today.
New flash
- Thread starter Mag
- Start date
Fitz, What sled you running & what is your setup to see those Rs?? Thanks
2010 800 switchback everything is stock. I wasn't going to touch a thing till they were done fixing it. low elevation
Just got back from riding the new flash. Not really impressed. Seems like now I have a rev limiter at 8200. Was hitting 8350 and 8400 before, which may be too high, but still couldn't hit that anywhere today. Somethings fishy. It seemed to clean up the burbling upon restart, but has some strange cut outs mid throttle. Could be just my imagination. The RPM's aren't though.
OK, seriously a hats off to Polaris for continually trying to make these right. 
However, I believe this is map 6 now. Ever heard the story of the boy that cried wolf? This isn't a system Polaris is going to be able to fix. I"m sorry, not trying to sound negative, but what they are trying to do was never meant to be done. This CFI 4 system just isn't going to be an EPA friendly system.
You take a 800 motor. It will always be an 800 motor, not a 700 not a 600, it's an 800. Then you take the exhaust valves and hold them closed to the size of a 700. Do this until you are within 1000RPM of peak RPM. Any question marks coming up yet
Lol This chokes the heck out of that motor so you can lean it as far as you can go for EPA testing.
Basically what I am saying is that the rpm is increasing which causes the fuel requirements to increase, but they can't because the exhaust flow isn't being allowed to increase with it. So instead the motor starts to choke thinking it needs less fuel.
You can't change the fuel requirements of an 800 motor no matter how hard you try. Look at 2 stroke dirt bikes and older model sleds. The exhaust valves open almost immediately. They are only there to increase initial low end throttle response that is all they were ever designed to do.
Or, try thinking of it this way. Would you rather have power that comes on like a stair case or a gradual incline. The staircase reference is a flat line that then shoots straight up. Which is what is happening when the exhaust valve is only allowed to function as open or closed. The older VES system allowed for more linear power to be made as the port opening would increase as rpm increased. Even the pipe configuration was not meant for a small exhaust port opening.
I'm sorry to be off topic here. I'm just trying to explain my opinion why they won't be able to properly map the CFI 4 systems on the 800's.
However, I believe this is map 6 now. Ever heard the story of the boy that cried wolf? This isn't a system Polaris is going to be able to fix. I"m sorry, not trying to sound negative, but what they are trying to do was never meant to be done. This CFI 4 system just isn't going to be an EPA friendly system.
You take a 800 motor. It will always be an 800 motor, not a 700 not a 600, it's an 800. Then you take the exhaust valves and hold them closed to the size of a 700. Do this until you are within 1000RPM of peak RPM. Any question marks coming up yet
Lol This chokes the heck out of that motor so you can lean it as far as you can go for EPA testing. Basically what I am saying is that the rpm is increasing which causes the fuel requirements to increase, but they can't because the exhaust flow isn't being allowed to increase with it. So instead the motor starts to choke thinking it needs less fuel.
You can't change the fuel requirements of an 800 motor no matter how hard you try. Look at 2 stroke dirt bikes and older model sleds. The exhaust valves open almost immediately. They are only there to increase initial low end throttle response that is all they were ever designed to do.
Or, try thinking of it this way. Would you rather have power that comes on like a stair case or a gradual incline. The staircase reference is a flat line that then shoots straight up. Which is what is happening when the exhaust valve is only allowed to function as open or closed. The older VES system allowed for more linear power to be made as the port opening would increase as rpm increased. Even the pipe configuration was not meant for a small exhaust port opening.
I'm sorry to be off topic here. I'm just trying to explain my opinion why they won't be able to properly map the CFI 4 systems on the 800's.
The sad thing about all this is that the warrenties are about to expire and we still have motors that cant hold together. Thursday when I was out the crank broke off bihind the primary. Dealer said its about a $3500 to rebuild. Thank god its still under warrenty. But this is the 3rd rebuild in 2000 miles. Cant even sell the thing because of this issue. Cant trust it to get to far away from the trail. Thats not what i bought it for. I bought it to ride and ride hard!! Sorry about the whining just frustrated.
I wouldn't call it whining when you can't ride. We feel your pain. I'm still waiting on an ECU from Polaris to ride mine. It's been down now for 6 weeks. I'll never trust mine after all the crap that's gone bad, and I have a 2 week trip starting on the 4th of Feb. I'm actually getting real used to riding my 600.
which is supposed to be for family and friends to tag along.
I wouldn't call it whining when you can't ride. We feel your pain. I'm still waiting on an ECU from Polaris to ride mine. It's been down now for 6 weeks. I'll never trust mine after all the crap that's gone bad, and I have a 2 week trip starting on the 4th of Feb. I'm actually getting real used to riding my 600.
Ya we have a 10 day trip set up for revy 1st of april not sure if i can get 10 days out of this thing. Im going to take my sons trusty 05 rev with me on this one. you cant kill it. Doin somthing different next year!!!
New polaris map and re-flash and pc-5
Good point.
For those of you with PC-3's and /or PC-5's;
Stoutner on H.C.S. has already run the new map with the PC-5 and Autotune.
There's a post on H.C.S.(IQ Section) where he says the mid range #'s on the new POLARIS map are good , but recommends leaning out the top end similar as to before.
Hope this helps.
From Stoutner's post on H.C.S.
Got the newest reflash today. If your dealer cannot find it I was told that it will be officially announced on the 14th.
Put about 10 or 15 miles on with a bunch of blasts back and forth in this 300-400 yard long field. I didn't notice any stumble, det light or anything bad. I did notice a tiny "burble" at tip in just like my sled has pretty much always done. NOTHING to stress about at all in my opinion. I rode a bunch of different throttle positions and speeds to see if I could find anything funky but could not. Sled would pull 8150 RPM's in the pretty short field that wasn't packed down or anything. Max recall 8350. Max speed 89 but I had to get on the brakes pretty quick. She had more to go for sure but field was too short and not packed down enough.
Then, I switched on my PC5 Autotune and let it work! I made at least 10 blasts at full throttle 8100 rpm on average. I also rode up and down the field any various throttle positions and rpm's. I also cruised some trails about 30 - 50 mph with the autotune on.
When I got back I was pleasantly surprised that it only made a few minor adjustments. It did add fuel at 5500 rpm's but i think I set my autotune to run at 13.7 air/fuel ratio at 5500 rpms. I'm fairly certain Polaris probably wants it a little leaner there and maybe it is 14 - 14.5 : 1 at that spot. At that rpm and throttle position, 14 or 14.5 :1 is probably fine. In either case, all adjustments it made were minor and probably not necessary. They were mostly single digit adjustments unlike the original flash that made adjustments up to 30% and 40%
At the full throttle position the autotune did lean it out quite a bit. Very similar to the last map from 7750 - 8250 rpm's.
This was only a quick sample ride and may not be representative of what it will act like in the future. But...I think it is MUCH better than the last flash and may even be VERY GOOD.
P.S. It was 30 degrees out and the mid range power is noticeably much better than before. Get ready to pop some wheelies! It seems to pull HARD in that mid range now.
Cross your fingers - we may have a winner!
Wayne
Good point.
For those of you with PC-3's and /or PC-5's;
Stoutner on H.C.S. has already run the new map with the PC-5 and Autotune.
There's a post on H.C.S.(IQ Section) where he says the mid range #'s on the new POLARIS map are good , but recommends leaning out the top end similar as to before.
Hope this helps.
From Stoutner's post on H.C.S.
Got the newest reflash today. If your dealer cannot find it I was told that it will be officially announced on the 14th.
Put about 10 or 15 miles on with a bunch of blasts back and forth in this 300-400 yard long field. I didn't notice any stumble, det light or anything bad. I did notice a tiny "burble" at tip in just like my sled has pretty much always done. NOTHING to stress about at all in my opinion. I rode a bunch of different throttle positions and speeds to see if I could find anything funky but could not. Sled would pull 8150 RPM's in the pretty short field that wasn't packed down or anything. Max recall 8350. Max speed 89 but I had to get on the brakes pretty quick. She had more to go for sure but field was too short and not packed down enough.
Then, I switched on my PC5 Autotune and let it work! I made at least 10 blasts at full throttle 8100 rpm on average. I also rode up and down the field any various throttle positions and rpm's. I also cruised some trails about 30 - 50 mph with the autotune on.
When I got back I was pleasantly surprised that it only made a few minor adjustments. It did add fuel at 5500 rpm's but i think I set my autotune to run at 13.7 air/fuel ratio at 5500 rpms. I'm fairly certain Polaris probably wants it a little leaner there and maybe it is 14 - 14.5 : 1 at that spot. At that rpm and throttle position, 14 or 14.5 :1 is probably fine. In either case, all adjustments it made were minor and probably not necessary. They were mostly single digit adjustments unlike the original flash that made adjustments up to 30% and 40%
At the full throttle position the autotune did lean it out quite a bit. Very similar to the last map from 7750 - 8250 rpm's.
This was only a quick sample ride and may not be representative of what it will act like in the future. But...I think it is MUCH better than the last flash and may even be VERY GOOD.
P.S. It was 30 degrees out and the mid range power is noticeably much better than before. Get ready to pop some wheelies! It seems to pull HARD in that mid range now.
Cross your fingers - we may have a winner!
Wayne
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Wait to see on the reflash
Sounds like good advice to wait on this reflash if you haven't had trouble with overly sensitive DET sensing.
Sounds like good advice to wait on this reflash if you haven't had trouble with overly sensitive DET sensing.
R
R44guy
Well-known member
Why Update if you use a PCV/PCIII
I agree why go for the new updated map from polaris if your all ready using a PCV or PCIII and it is running good. It will still run stronger then the new map with your the PCV or PCIII until the new pcv or pcIII map is available to download and install. There should be some new down loadable maps from Jim soon for the guys who got the update from polaris done. But it sounds like the feed back is that the starting flooding issue and midrange rpm lean issues are better but it is still too rich on the top end. So both the PCV and PCIII the systems with the old programs are still better and making noticably more power at over 10 hp at 8100 rpms. I know there some people who got the update and claim the they have lost some rpms on the top as well.
I agree why go for the new updated map from polaris if your all ready using a PCV or PCIII and it is running good. It will still run stronger then the new map with your the PCV or PCIII until the new pcv or pcIII map is available to download and install. There should be some new down loadable maps from Jim soon for the guys who got the update from polaris done. But it sounds like the feed back is that the starting flooding issue and midrange rpm lean issues are better but it is still too rich on the top end. So both the PCV and PCIII the systems with the old programs are still better and making noticably more power at over 10 hp at 8100 rpms. I know there some people who got the update and claim the they have lost some rpms on the top as well.
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M
metallicat
Well-known member
Monte,
are you thinking that even the pcv won't get these to run to correctly since we don't have to go through epa with those? Just curious what you mean?
are you thinking that even the pcv won't get these to run to correctly since we don't have to go through epa with those? Just curious what you mean?
OK, seriously a hats off to Polaris for continually trying to make these right.
However, I believe this is map 6 now. Ever heard the story of the boy that cried wolf? This isn't a system Polaris is going to be able to fix. I"m sorry, not trying to sound negative, but what they are trying to do was never meant to be done. This CFI 4 system just isn't going to be an EPA friendly system.
You take a 800 motor. It will always be an 800 motor, not a 700 not a 600, it's an 800. Then you take the exhaust valves and hold them closed to the size of a 700. Do this until you are within 1000RPM of peak RPM. Any question marks coming up yet
Basically what I am saying is that the rpm is increasing which causes the fuel requirements to increase, but they can't because the exhaust flow isn't being allowed to increase with it. So instead the motor starts to choke thinking it needs less fuel.
You can't change the fuel requirements of an 800 motor no matter how hard you try. Look at 2 stroke dirt bikes and older model sleds. The exhaust valves open almost immediately. They are only there to increase initial low end throttle response that is all they were ever designed to do.
Or, try thinking of it this way. Would you rather have power that comes on like a stair case or a gradual incline. The staircase reference is a flat line that then shoots straight up. Which is what is happening when the exhaust valve is only allowed to function as open or closed. The older VES system allowed for more linear power to be made as the port opening would increase as rpm increased. Even the pipe configuration was not meant for a small exhaust port opening.
I'm sorry to be off topic here. I'm just trying to explain my opinion why they won't be able to properly map the CFI 4 systems on the 800's.
Sorry, I don't explain things well.
I believe the PC V is the answer. The fuel controller will be able to adjust around almost anything. I was also hinting that I feel they are holding the exhaust valves closed too long. Either way the PC V can remedy the problems with the stock mapping. My point was that Polaris just won't be able to make a EPA friendly map with this system that is also reliable and hesitation free.
A
aebsledder
Well-known member
rode the latest flash yesterday
I rode the latest flash yesterday on my 09 800. It was in West Yellowstone at the airport, which I believe is about 6700 feet. I was able to get about 8200 rpm's consistently, with a max reading of 8300. I have an SLP single with slp blue pink primary spring, stock secondary, and 62 gram stock weights. I was only able to get about 7900-8000 before in similar conditions, BUT my primary clutch was also rebuilt, so this could have had just as big of an impact. This being said the motor seemed crisper and had consistent power through all the throttle positions. I am crossing my fingers that it will keep running this good.
I rode the latest flash yesterday on my 09 800. It was in West Yellowstone at the airport, which I believe is about 6700 feet. I was able to get about 8200 rpm's consistently, with a max reading of 8300. I have an SLP single with slp blue pink primary spring, stock secondary, and 62 gram stock weights. I was only able to get about 7900-8000 before in similar conditions, BUT my primary clutch was also rebuilt, so this could have had just as big of an impact. This being said the motor seemed crisper and had consistent power through all the throttle positions. I am crossing my fingers that it will keep running this good.
D
dynotechjim
Well-known member
Sorry, I don't explain things well.
Monte is surely on to what I believe is the crux of the problem--late opening valves. This is so critical, I will begin a new thread on what I think is happening, and why non-EPA approved fuel tuners are the answer to best possible HP and driveability.
could the exhaust valves be drilled/machined to use cylinder pressure instead of the solenoids, or put the older style exhaust valves in? Or are the new cylinders not compatible with something like that? just putting it out there, could be way off base
tec, the valves are the same as the old ones in function, they are just vented thru the solenoid to allow the computer to control their opening and closing points....plugging the hoses makes them work like older valves....
well that seems like a pretty easy fix to the valves staying closed too long prob, or are other issues raised by doing this, and are you running with the hoses plugged?
sorry for getting off of the original topic
