If you wear an "ABS Bag" or "Similar" aren't you part of the problem ?

[Original Tetonice]

backtrack..save face..you went about it wrong...the right way would have reached many many more people in a positive manner...you did more harm then good...scotts thread is the way to do it..

This thread was never meant to Cuddle Anyone. The backcountry is no place for people who need cuddled to even be....Mothere Nature has proven time & time again to not cuddle anyone when snowmobiling or skiing in the backcountry.

The right way would have reached many many more people in a positive manner FYI, there is over 3500 hits in 2 days of discussion. Had this discussion taken place in July it would not have had the same effect.

Scott FYI regarding the Copper Creek Avy several years ago....When the investigator called and we spoke. I told him that stupid rider error caused the avalanche... The investigator agreed.

Bottom-Lines only humans can clean up the problem of human caused backcountry avy's that occure like clockwork either during or shortly after a big storm.


OT

 

[Original Tetonice]

Scott, If my memory is correct doesn't the Copper Creek Avy go something like this.....Some of Scotts riding buddies took a newbie who has either never rode or rarely rode a snowmobile into the backcountry. The newbie is just sitting there either stuck or just unstuck (it doesn't matter anymore he is dead) , when one of Scotts riding buddies either climbs or just climbed or had been climbed the hill above the newbie and the hill decides to breaks....Did the newbie have a chance Scott ?? Did your riding buddies even make sure the newbie had any saftey gear ?? Did the newbie have a clue where he was being taken to ride ?......Or was that just another Avy your riding buddies were involved in that day ??

OT

 

[Ov3rthetop]

OT I understand why and the way you started this thread. It was to open peoples eyes to avy danger and saying that riding with the pack pretty much says you admit you put yourself in danger. The one thing I have to say here is you just said you ride in backcountry and see dumb people back that take the risk. If you are in the backcountry anywhere even if on trails or what have you you are in danger. Im not going to lie Ive been riding with a group of buddies that wanted to keep pushing in even though the avy danger was high. I told them they can go on ahead without me because im not pushing it. There was 6 of them and we had radios so it wasnt like i abandond them. I ended up taking a nap near the trail in a open meadow. I woke up like 30 mins later to hear the crashing of an avy then my friends riding up and telling me what just happend. Luckily noone was cought the one that started it out ran it and everyone was out of the way. The thing here is even with a ABS pack i still wouldnt of pushed it. I would wear it for those times when avy danger is practically none existant or if i end u going off trail by wrecking or so forth while danger is high. I do love riding the backcountry but I use my head. So just saying if you wear a pack means you do stupid things is false.

 

[Deadwood]

Mark My Words Next Big Snow Strom Some Stupid Azz Will Be Killed In A Avalanche They Created.

OT

I hope you're not right, but it sounds to me like you'd be proud of yourself for being right if it does happen.
To me THAT really shows your true character.

 

[Deadwood]

Scott, If my memory is correct doesn't the Copper Creek Avy go something like this.....Some of Scotts riding buddies took a newbie who has either never rode or rarely rode a snowmobile into the backcountry. The newbie is just sitting there either stuck or just unstuck (it doesn't matter anymore he is dead) , when one of Scotts riding buddies either climbs or just climbed or had been climbed the hill above the newbie and the hill decides to breaks....Did the newbie have a chance Scott ?? Did your riding buddies even make sure the newbie had any saftey gear ?? Did the newbie have a clue where he was being taken to ride ?......Or was that just another Avy your riding buddies were involved in that day ??

OT

So maybe avy bags would have their uses after all?

 

[Original Tetonice]

I hope you're not right, but it sounds to me like you'd be proud of yourself for being right if it does happen.
To me THAT really shows your true character.

I don't have a "crystal ball".....What i do have and you and everyone else has the same "tool"...There his a History a Pattern and a Statistic that is established & growing that shows nearly every major storm that pass the Rockies the storm leaves behind a dead snowmobiler, skier or both with the passing of every major storm.

No crystal ball required imo.

OT

 

[Transporter]

Ill say it again.When I told the young guy at work I had a ABS bag and beacon, he clearly said why would you be afraid to climb any hill on the mountain.I am going to get one too then I will have nothing to worry about.This is the attitude of him and his riding buddies.I hope there isnt to many others that think like that too.

 

[Scott]

Scott, If my memory is correct doesn't the Copper Creek Avy go something like this.....Some of Scotts riding buddies took a newbie who has either never rode or rarely rode a snowmobile into the backcountry. The newbie is just sitting there either stuck or just unstuck (it doesn't matter anymore he is dead) , when one of Scotts riding buddies either climbs or just climbed or had been climbed the hill above the newbie and the hill decides to breaks....Did the newbie have a chance Scott ?? Did your riding buddies even make sure the newbie had any saftey gear ?? Did the newbie have a clue where he was being taken to ride ?......Or was that just another Avy your riding buddies were involved in that day ??

OT

Steve...don't insert me into the Copper Avy. I'm not playing your games.
You seem to know more about it then I do. You may as well call them YOUR riding buddies. Don't be an a z z h o l e.
I wasn't there. I had nothing to do with it. I had never met nor ridden with those guys before that Avy. I've only run into them 2 or 3 times on the mountain since then.

Just like always...make sure to edit all your posts Teto.

 

[moyiesledhead]

Yeah. They are gonna regulate the entire province of B.C.
RRRRRiiight.......... Sorry bud, I just cannot see it.

Actually, this is more likely than you might think. Much of B.C. is already regulated to some extent for a number of reasons, most of which are totally unjustified or unproven. Many of us have been fighting for a long time to keep as much of it open for sleds as we can, but let me tell you...I've recently started thinking we're fighting a losing battle. Part of the problem is the lack of support we get from the general snowmobiling public. No one seems to care until the signs go up, then those of us that tried to stop it get crapped on for not trying hard enough. We gotta get together people or we're gonna lose!

If I just hijacked this thread...that was my intention! Consider this my attempt at getting some intelligent conversation started.

In case that doesn't happen...I just ordered my ABS pack, so I can go out and cause some avy's. (Sheesh)

 

[Original Tetonice]

Steve...don't insert me into the Copper Avy. I'm not playing your games.
You seem to know more about it then I do. You may as well call them YOUR riding buddies. Don't be an a z z h o l e.
I wasn't there. I had nothing to do with it. I had never met nor ridden with those guys before that Avy. I've only run into them 2 or 3 times on the mountain since then.

Just like always...make sure to edit all your posts Teto.

Scooter, you dug up the Copper Avy, You wanted to know what the investigator had to say. And i know you weren't there nor was i or the investigator.... And by the way they are your riding buds not mine....You've only run into them 2 or 3 times ???..... I guess that makes them my buddies

Keep your head up Scooter you just got hit between the eyes and now your trying to back pedal and it ain't working. I edit because the SW forum allows me 2.

OT

 

[Scott]

Scooter, you dug up the Copper Avy, You wanted to know what the investigator had to say. And i know you weren't there nor was i or the investigator.... And by the way they are your riding buds not mine.
OT

No. You're wrong. If I recall from those threads...How many were there that day? 15? The two I met afterward...ran into them on the mountain just as anyone else would have that rides Copper. A third person lives in my town. Never have ridden with him. Just because I live in the same state as someone doesn't make them all my riding buddies. It IS a big state Teto. Quite big.

It's a loooooooooong stretch to say that they were my riding buddies!!!!!!!!!!

Clean your ears or wipe your eyes. But what ever you do...read my posts closer.

I'm out.

 

[Original Tetonice]

Scooter you don't have to play my game. Your doing a fine job on your own

OT

 

[Original Tetonice]

No. You're wrong. If I recall from those threads...How many were there that day? 15? The two I met afterward...ran into them on the mountain just as anyone else would have that rides Copper. A third person lives in my town. Never have ridden with him. Just because I live in the same state as someone doesn't make them all my riding buddies. It IS a big state Teto. Quite big.

It's a loooooooooong stretch to say that they were my riding buddies!!!!!!!!!!

Clean your ears or wipe your eyes. But what ever you do...read my posts closer.

I'm out.

I thought i would save this before you decide to edit your own non-sense....Every consider going to a brothel ?

OT

 

[pura vida]

wow OT, i've seen some of your other threads and thought your were fairly intelligent. boy was i wrong. you are truly an idiot. i don't call people that very much, especially over the internet but good god son, you are clueless. just clueless, wow. amazing how skewed some people's perspectives are. makes you understand why there are so many issues in this country when there are people with your line of thought. i have no problem with different POV's but when i person is as misinformed/uninformed as yourself there is little to no chance for an intelligent conversation/discussion/debate. enjoy the snow and good luck to yourself...

pv

 

[Snoman69]

4 years ago, almost to the day, OT made the same kind of post regarding the avy that took Animal. Attacking all of us that were involved right after we lost our buddy Dave in an Avy. It hurt like h#ll. What an insensitive arshole was ALL I could think! I took everything he said personally and I wanted to kick his ars! I was already emotional and the words he was saying (that we had killed Dave) hurt me big time. When I met him later that year I was still furious and wanted to hurl! He sat me down and explained to me what he was doing by making those posts. He isn’t sugar coating it, he’s trying to open up eyes.

Does it hurt? YES

Insensitive? Yup.

Bad timing? Maybe not, because when someone has died that might be a good time to get more people to listen???

Is it effective? Not always and not immediately.

I went out and was part of another burial the next year. Now, after 2 burials and a few different AVY classes I can see EXACTLY what he is saying. He isn’t saying it the best way. But what he is trying to do is open up a discussion. Some of you are calling him an idiot, yet you are the ones pulling out the name calling (hello… fatso doesn’t really hurt that bad! Lol) Arrogant? Maybe. But really people… name calling is for 4 year olds.

His tactic is brutal and most people are too defensive to really look into what he is saying. I’m not condoning his behaviour by ANY MEANS! But, being on the beaten side of his attacks I can tell you to step back and look what he is saying. Take your ego and lose it. I am pretty sure his objective is to not come on here and read YOUR name in a thread title saying RIP so and so.

Most avalanche incidents involving sledders are started because they are there in the wrong place. Even with peeps on the trail the argument can be made that they chose to ride that trail through a high risk area. It was still a human choice made that led to the outcome. Yes, avalanches occur naturally. But if a human is involved in one… the statement “if an avy happens a mistake has been made” seems to be pretty spot on.

Many of you can flame at me for defending the big bad meanie… that’s is just fine. I’m still learning too. And unfortunately, learning by fire. 2 burials and now I’m trying to educate myself on not getting into these situation to begin with. It has taken the horrifying experience (s) and dealing with the grief that in part, by my actions, I am responsible for a wife and 3 daughters losing their husband and father to start seeking more education. And in seeking more education I can see what OT is saying.

I think the ABS is a great addition for IF you get in an avy. But I think your brain is the most unused tool we have to keep us from ever needing that ABS. I think that is what OT is trying to say. I have seen a few peeps wearing these packs and it doesn’t change the way they ride, they still go into dangerous areas. Education is key. ABS is just a tool.

OT, I appreciate you are trying to open eyes… but maybe a sensitivity class is in order??

Very Well Said Brandy!

The problem is people seem to not have the ability to have a constructive conversation... If it doesn't meet their view point, then attack mode happens.... We all have different opinions... It's not very difficult to here ones point of view and leave it at that.

And to clarify - It is very obvious that OT is trying to ruffle feathers, and ya'll are getting sucked in....

 

[ronniehotdogg]

Clearly, if your an owner of such a bag you admit to taking the risk on potential dangerous slopes during snowmobile activity.

OT

I think this is the dumbest thing I have seen on snowest yet. I just got a bag this year, we are all taking the chance every time you get on a sled. They say a 30 degree slope is the most likely to slide. That is not very steep.

xxxmodrods.com

 

[Pit Crew]

After all these years on Snowest it amazes me that people still argue with OT, he has never to my memory never coceded a single point no matter how well argued it is.

You know what they say about arguing with idiots

OT is forever on my ignore list!!!!!!

 

[Beartoothclimb]

I think this is the dumbest thing I have seen on snowest yet. I just got a bag this year, we are all taking the chance every time you get on a sled. They say a 30 degree slope is the most likely to slide. That is not very steep.

xxxmodrods.com

38-40 degree slope is most likely to slide.

 

[winter brew]

If you wear an "ABS Bag" or "Similar" aren't you part of the problem ?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Clearly, if your an owner of such a bag you admit to taking the risk on potential dangerous slopes during snowmobile activity.

OT


I don't wear one, so does that mean I'm NOT part of the problem?? And just what is this "problem" you refer to?? Really man, this makes no sense...
Do you wear a helmet? Do you risk getting in an accident everytime you drive? Do you eat red meat knowing it may kill you? Isn't just about everything we do a calculated risk..... What's your point?

 

[EEEK FACTOR]

clearly, if your an owner of such a bag you admit to taking the risk on potential dangerous slopes during snowmobile activity.

Ot

if we all agree that all it takes is a 25 degreee slope to slide and we can never truly predict when or where avalanches will occur. I would have to say that this statement is true...that statement is true for any snowmobiler who has ever ridden a snowmobile in the mountains with or without a abs bag...so im not sure what the agruement is about? What is your point ot? Snowmobilers are at risk in the backcountry-yes. Snowmobilers cause avalanches-yes. With all due respect please inform me, and all of us what you are truly trying to convey, because im not sure.