I saw these posts in another section, I think it's wrong.....

[Uller]

But why does them doing stupid and illegal stuff make it right for us to do the same things? When we do those kinds of things too how does that cause the rest of the world to view us snowmobilers? Why would you want it to be said of us that we behave the same way as those extremists?

I agree with mtn extreme! Good post!

Do what the polygamists do (even though they do it for illegal reasons ), it seems to working for them. Be active in your politics local and otherwise and have to stay organized.

A big thank you to the groups and individuals that are doing this, keep fighting the good fight brothers…

I use those as examples of the game we are playing and the playing field that the "others" have taken it too. I am not saying that we shouldn't attempt to legally stop the closing of riding areas (good luck though when green peace gets 50 million annually to pay lawyers to shut us down). What I am saying is that it is a loosing battle which eventually will be lost. If everything that everybody did was legal then we wouldn't have this country that we live in today........

 

[XXL]

I heard it from the F.S. in my talks with them over the Gallatin Forest Plan, "We close certain sections to non motorized and the boundaries are not respected, if we close the whole area it is easier to police and ensure compliance." I also believe in certain areas they can impound your ride and you loose your sled. Deep down you guys gotta know it's not right.

 

[TIM]

IF you poach, don't advertise it, and then we wouldn't know.

 

[NewMTNsldr]

mtn & WY, Do either of you live in a state where the state dictates the dates that you can legally ride? I'm just asking? Because to me that is one of the stupidest laws I have ever herd of.

Again not trying to say what ski- is doing is correct. BUT It sure seems easy for those who are not directly affected by this ,in my opinion, B.S. law to say they would or would not do something. Honestly, I can't imagine living in a state like that.

 

[mtn_extreme]

"I think that you are incorrect in you opinion that 1 won't matter and can't make a difference. There are too many examples where one person has made a significant impact. Examples: Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, even Hitler."

Bad examples for you, good examples for me as everyone mentioned here except Hitler used an organized fallowing to achieve their adgenda. The three that did, reached admirable achievments........and as for Hitler, we all know how that turned out.


Bottom line - Quit being juvinile cry babies and if you want to fight the problem, organize a group of fallowers and mount a constructive argument to support your cause....without creating a negative impact on ALL other snowmobilers nationwide. Your actions reflect on US ALL.

 

[WYsteph]

I use those as examples of the game we are playing and the playing field that the "others" have taken it too. I am not saying that we shouldn't attempt to legally stop the closing of riding areas (good luck though when green peace gets 50 million annually to pay lawyers to shut us down). What I am saying is that it is a loosing battle which eventually will be lost. If everything that everybody did was legal then we wouldn't have this country that we live in today........

Sorry Uller, just don't believe that is true, we can fight and we can win. It won't be easy in anyway but we can still do it.

Yes, the Bighorns open to off road travel Nov 15th and close on May 15th. Which is not too stupid of a law, keeps people from tearing the thawed ground up so bad. Though it is sad that there are enough stupid people out there that make it necessary to have it.

 

[NewMTNsldr]

We have ridden here on the 4th of July and tore nothing up and have had years where because of the lack of snow, we were unable to ride until the end of December.

I agree there are stupid people out there who have zero respect for the land in which they ride, but those same dumbasss will be riding that dirt November 16th, 17th and so on. They just aren't smart enough to stay home if there isn't enough snow. These tards do more damage to your riding areas when they are open by leaving their crap all over the mountain while it is open than some guy who goes for a road ride in two feet of snow a week before the area opens.

Of course this only my opinion and we all know what opinions are like

 

[700 powder special]

I agree with pretty much all of you guys. But lets be real they can not close everything and while we are being real if they did would it stop any of us from riding? are you gonna say ok here's my sled? Heck no we ride because it is FUN! Its a shame when the political toilet runs all the way down to where we ride. What is it coming to????

 

[WYsteph]

We have ridden here on the 4th of July and tore nothing up and have had years where because of the lack of snow, we were unable to ride until the end of December.

I agree there are stupid people out there who have zero respect for the land in which they ride, but those same dumbasss will be riding that dirt November 16th, 17th and so on. They just aren't smart enough to stay home if there isn't enough snow. These tards do more damage to your riding areas when they are open by leaving their crap all over the mountain while it is open than some guy who goes for a road ride in two feet of snow a week before the area opens.

Of course this only my opinion and we all know what opinions are like

Yeah, though the roads are always open up there, just have to wait to get off them.

I think they did pretty good picking the dates here, by Nov 15th there is normally just enough snow to putt around a bit and not worry about tearing things up. Last year there was a lot of snow past may 15th but that was just an odd year.

 

[NewMTNsldr]

Steph, You are completely missing the point and it appears that this is a much broader topic than just riding. Why is it that the mass's seem to think it is OK for the government to tell us when we can or can't do things. What ever happened to free thinking adults who could actually make an intelligent decisions on their own and take responsibility for their own actions? What happens on the years when you get ridable snow on the 1st of November? Do you just sit and look at the snow for 15 days because the government said it is better to wait until the 15th? I am sorry but if you think that is OK then I would have to agree with who ever it was that made the sheep herding comment.

 

[WYsteph]

Steph, You are completely missing the point and it appears that this is a much broader topic than just riding. Why is it that the mass's seem to think it is OK for the government to tell us when we can or can't do things. What ever happened to free thinking adults who could actually make an intelligent decisions on their own and take responsibility for their own actions? What happens on the years when you get ridable snow on the 1st of November? Do you just sit and look at the snow for 15 days because the government said it is better to wait until the 15th? I am sorry but if you think that is OK then I would have to agree with who ever it was that made the sheep herding comment.

Hmm, okay so for a government to work and for a nation to function there do need to be rules.

No, I really don't like all these stupid laws that keep being made because somebody though it was a good idea at the time, somebody's personal agenda, or an idiot did something stupid and therefore a law was made.


As for having a season on off road snowmobling, no I wish we didn't have it. But we do and probably from us not being responsible as a whole. Therefore instead of closing the whole deal down they decide it was in the best interest of land conservation to put a limit on it. (Now that is just going off of the assumption that tearing things up was the reason for needing change, might have been some other issue. Conflict with hunters, etc.)

So to answer your question, yes I sit back and wait. There is nothing I would love more then to go ride but waiting 15 days isn't going to kill me. Why would I cause more trouble and give them more reasons to hate us? We have enough stuff to fight right now without me adding to the mix.

 

[rev440alaska]

"I think that you are incorrect in you opinion that 1 won't matter and can't make a difference. There are too many examples where one person has made a significant impact. Examples: Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, even Hitler."

Bad examples for you, good examples for me as everyone mentioned here except Hitler used an organized fallowing to achieve their adgenda. The three that did, reached admirable achievments........and as for Hitler, we all know how that turned out.


Bottom line - Quit being juvinile cry babies and if you want to fight the problem, organize a group of fallowers and mount a constructive argument to support your cause....without creating a negative impact on ALL other snowmobilers nationwide. Your actions reflect on US ALL.

thanks for the school lesson. il go look for some "fallowers", if only i knew what they were.

 

[wrtmani]

$.02 from an old newbie

I just want to say as a 35-year old who's been out of the sport for a number of years and trying to get back into it, I have to say both sides of the same coin are right. The rule to protect "hibernating grizzly bears" on Flathead National Forest Lands is stupid and needs to be changed. Do the bears only stay on USFS lands? Do they have a calandar to know when to go hibernate and when to come out in the spring?

But as sledders we need to set a better example than this. Not just snowmobiling, but hunting, 4-wheeling, fishing, horseback riding etc. are all under scrutiny. And its not just recreational sports that are being watched either. Professions such as logging, mining, farming are all under the magnifying glass. The majority of the population in this country that the media is courting is on the Eastern half of the country (and California) (the areas Obama won), and they have the money and the push to impose their will on us in the western states.

Only by standing up, urging our lawmmakers at all levels of government to use true facts and not media propaganda to do what is right. We need to show the antis that we are better than them by not stooping down to their level. If you have a problem with a law, (and this is a stupid one here in the Flathead) urge your lawmakers to work to change it. Join orginizations that lobby to protect your rights. Get out and vote.

I will be the first to admit that I up to this point in my life I have not followed these ideals. The last election I voted in before this year was in '92 when Bubba Clinton was elected. And frankly, I am scared of what will happen next with Obama and a Decocratic-controlled congress in power. Make no mistake they are out to radically change this country to their way of thinking, which is anti-snowmobiling, anti-logging, anti-gun, anti everything that made this country strong.

P.S.-- Ski, I got the chief cook and bottlewasher to let me go on the forum ride on Saturday for Canyon Creek--Am I still invited? I've only been up there once and I would like to find someplace to ride and some new old farts like me to ride with! Thanks!

Mike

 

[NewMTNsldr]

Hmm, okay so for a government to work and for a nation to function there do need to be rules.

hmm yea it's called the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights

Then some smart as all get up lawyer/government official decided what had worked for hundreds of years suddenly wasn't good enough and they started screwing with the fundamentals that this country was founded on. Now the government is sticking their nose into every little issue out there, telling people when and where they can do this or that. Society as a whole blindly follows because, why not they must know what they are talking about. Those who question this form of logic are considered either extremist or ignorant by the masses.

I'm sorry but shutting down or setting dates on areas because some one or a small group abused it, is punishing the masses for a few peoples ignorance. Instead of holding individuals accountable/responsible for their own actions it is considered acceptable to institute a mass policy because we are unable to make a responsible decision ourselves.

This isn't the government working. It is the government micromanaging and stomping on mine and your rights in a publicly accepted manner.

Now that I have ranted I will step off the pill box I had carefully placed myself, go back to cleaning my guns, drinking my crown and silently thinking to myself that this country is on the fast track to a bad ending but for the time being is still better than any where else in the world to live. Canada is looking better all the time though!

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

good to see a local comenting on it, we are fighting some serious crap in our local arena, one of the groups who is lobbying to keep shutting our areas down advises on there websites that they prefer anything without a motor to and of those horrible loud machines, including CARS, these people are nuts, the dont do anything but lobby against us, and everything we do.

glad to hear your gonna make it up for the forum ride, thats hopefully we have some snow by then!!

 

[Tedd]

good to see a local comenting on it, we are fighting some serious crap in our local arena, one of the groups who is lobbying to keep shutting our areas down advises on there websites that they prefer anything without a motor to and of those horrible loud machines, including CARS, these people are nuts, the dont do anything but lobby against us, and everything we do.

I completely agree with your statement. As well as there are some good points being brought up here. But I have a couple of questions:

How many pictures taken by the greenies include a person riding a sled in a closed area? I will answer this for you, very few that I have seen to date.
Question #2
How may pictures of sled TRACKS do they show going into a closed area?
Answer: ALL of them that I have seen to date.

So, what do you think is good for our sport? Sled tracks going into closed areas, or showing that we can abide by the federal closures and stay out of closed areas. I would bet on the fact that if we band together and make our voices heard as well as abide by the closures and stay out of closed areas we can get more accomplished than by breaking the rules.
The old wives tale "You can get more with honey than you can with vinegar" comes to mind.
Now, if the dems close down ALL of our riding areas then we may have to become outlaws. But we will cross that bridge when we get there.

Again, not trying to start a forum fight rather sparking thought and possible debate of the issue. If I was calling someone out, that is what would have been done in the beginning.

I recently saw a bumper sticker that made perfect sense: ARE YOU AN ENVIROMENTALIST, OR DO YOU WORK FOR A LIVING? A little food for thought.

 

[rev440alaska]

i dont give a dead mooses last sh**

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

here inlies the principle difference between us Tedd, you are able to see some hope, all i see with the kids i run into and the people i meet, the comments i read from the oposition, i hate to admit defeat so early on in a race, I try and see the light, but for me its not there, i still work for the goal of keeping things open as far as joining a groups, and writing letters to try and help the cause, but i do admit, i do as much damage as good when it comes to playing outside the rules. so i dont know what to think of the situation sometimes, but i am glad this discussion has stayed pretty positve besides a few posts.

as for the bumper sticker, i think it pretty much sums up my thinking and and why i have started to have a hard time fighting, we as working class people are up against a group of individuals funded by some liberal wave of fealing good about things. a quote i put about a guy on a suby forum who got 16.8 mpg in his 09 forester saying he wasnt worried about the bad milage cuz the motors "green" so its ok to get such crappy milage. I just dont understand how its possible to use facts or even lies to explain things to these people what they are doing and how it affects others. either way, let the discussion keep going!!

 

[rotax]

hmm yea it's called the Declaration of Independence and the Bill of Rights

Then some smart as all get up lawyer/government official decided what had worked for hundreds of years suddenly wasn't good enough and they started screwing with the fundamentals that this country was founded on. Now the government is sticking their nose into every little issue out there, telling people when and where they can do this or that. Society as a whole blindly follows because, why not they must know what they are talking about. Those who question this form of logic are considered either extremist or ignorant by the masses.

I'm sorry but shutting down or setting dates on areas because some one or a small group abused it, is punishing the masses for a few peoples ignorance. Instead of holding individuals accountable/responsible for their own actions it is considered acceptable to institute a mass policy because we are unable to make a responsible decision ourselves.

This isn't the government working. It is the government micromanaging and stomping on mine and your rights in a publicly accepted manner.

Now that I have ranted I will step off the pill box I had carefully placed myself, go back to cleaning my guns, drinking my crown and silently thinking to myself that this country is on the fast track to a bad ending but for the time being is still better than any where else in the world to live. Canada is looking better all the time though!

Now that sir, is some intelligent stuff.
And I've heard and talked with others with similar statements and point of view, and its been happening much much more lately since bama has been nominated..

Yep, soon Can will be puting up fences on its borders...with all of us trying to ditch this 3rd world country, to be. Pretty sad.


Honestly, on topic, I'm on both sides of the fence. While I haven't willingly, or knowingly "poached" per-say..if (or more so, when) the time comes that our state or your state closes off all land to snowmobiling.. Are you going to say, OK, thats fine, I'll just move to another state...then that state closes off its areas...yep, thats fine, I'll move to where they allow it.
No..I wouldn't be that person.
And the real issue here is this is happening whith MUCH more than just sledding...and this is why I can see things not ending well.
We all give government this power as if their gods...that they should be running our lives and protecting us and this n that. When they shouldn't have to.. We as humans should be able to 1) protect ourselves 2) be able to get along with one another 3) have some gd common sense (or dignity) and not all be a bunch of idiots and allowing ourselves to be fed like babies.

Anyway, losing focus...

Something bigger needs to happen in this country, something bigger than fighting a greeny group, something bigger than saying, "Yeah, that sucks, but what can you do..."
And I think it will. Like others have said, it will just take organization, structure, and maybe someone absolutley determined.

Hitler was mentioned earlier, as not having a "following"? Hitler and I think a lot of his people (or followers) all wanted change.... Remind me again, what was our new ruler or president preaching? Hitler of the new era, taking away guns so we can't fight back, taking away any possability for financial gain so we can't stand up and shout. Its now turned from a fight for our freedom outside our borders (call it what you will..) to an internal politcal war amongst our own country..and own people.

And again..losing track..so I'll end this now..as just another disgruntled American who likes what he has and wants to keep it..sorta..


Mind you, I send comments, and have started donating to SAWS and local groups.
But the fact that something is broken still prevails endlessly.

 

[sledfvr]

These "wilderness" closures are part of a much bigger agenda here. Our gov't isn't closing these areas because we were ruining the land with our sleds, its only an excuse to help their cause. I was ticketed last year in a spot I had been riding in for 15 years. The reason for the closure was because it was a "proposed test area for wilderness". So it's not wilderness, and it's not a test area for wilderness, but only a "proposed" test area. So they are thinking about testing it someday, maybe to see if it would be a good candidate for wilderness.
I am sad to say, but if you live in Montana you can see they are trying to close it all down. I fear this fight is much bigger than we can win. They will slowly pick at it and pick at it until it's pretty much gone. As for moving to Canada. There is a highway under construction right now (that was not voted on) from Mexico to Canada. The US will include Mexico and Canada once it is completed. It is called the NAFTA Super Highway. Look it up. The new dollar will be the Amero. I'm afraid that the US constitution will no longer exist because the US will then be the American Union, just like the European Union and the Euro. Again look into these things, I'm not making it up.
I am a supporter of SAWS and many other groups and I wish we could win this battle, but I think we are greatly outnumbered. With that said, I will continue to donate and try to fight back, but over the last 10 years all I've seen happen is more closures in this area.