I saw these posts in another section, I think it's wrong.....

[Wheel House Motorsports]

"glad to see some others feel the same way, your post sums up my thoughts very simply. i would like to also point out, the few times i have gone out and ridden things that are off limits or after season dates, i NEVER see anyone as were i go the likes of the hippes would never go, you have to actually travel up some scary roads to get there, places the subarus would never make it to".

I was going to stay out of this but I have to chime in. The reason you never see anyone going where you are when it closed is because, it's closed "hello". They close it for a reason, whatever that reason is, wherever it is. Botom line is your breaking the law.

just would like to clarify, when i say i dont see anyone, i mean, hikers, skiers, people of any sort, dont see anyone parked withing 20 miles of the unload spot...

again, i am trying in no way to say what im doing is legal or right, I just know there are some rules i just cant follow, so i do em as far away as possible.

i think a half decent example is something like speeding, we all do it, its illegal, and puts others at risk, BUT, when your downtown, tons of people you play it pretty clean for the benefit of you and others, but put any of you on an open country road with nobody around, and were all buzzing right along.

i know its not a great example, again, just trying to make the point that if im gonna do something i know is wrong, im going to try and make it as low key as possible, by going off the beaten path.

 

[smokindave]

Save Your Breath

Its no use trying to explain this to this child.I do believe he actually believes he is doing good for our hobby.When you try to explain to him that once guys like himself do get our areas closed we will all have to start being criminals just like him to ride he goes and gives you negative rep for your opinion.So being how he is so negative to our hobbie I hope you all join in and give this child the rep he deserves.Just mine and most honest sledders opinion.

 

[mtn_extreme]

Completely agree Dave, dumb azz kid that doesn't have a clue and goes arround bad rep-ing when he get an opinion different that his!

Hope everyone returns the favor back to him.

 

[NewMTNsldr]

I am not in any way shape or form saying I agree with what this young man is doing but just because I don’t agree with him doesn’t make him a dumb @ss. If anything I would say he has stated his case legibly and coherently which is way more than you can say for Rev440alaska.

So you don’t agree why can’t you just state that and the reasons why with out having to call him a punk or dumb@***. Grown adults calling a teenager names? Makes perfect sense to me.

Ski- you write and state your opinion better than the majority of forum members seem to be capable of. That being said what you are trying to justify doing is illegal and will have a negative impact, not just to yourself, but to the rest of the sledding community should you get caught.

I do wonder what will happen when the day comes that we loose all of our sledding areas. Will the self righteous on here simply scrap their sleds and take up cross country skiing or will you then decide it is OK to break the law and continue to enjoy this great sport? ….

 

[mtn_extreme]

If you were to see the comments he made while giving negative reps, you would agree about the dumb azz thing. You are right though in that he is good at pulling the wool over certain eyes in a public arena.

 

[SnowSnob]

Before any of you start bashing this guy you had better be involved in helping our sport in some way otherwise STFU cause you lost your right to say anything cause you did nothing to stop this BS closure.

MOST of us have tried to be the better person on the trail when encountering click clacks and for our courtesy they spit, throw poles or just give a nice glare.
WHY do we continue to let them push us around????
Being nice has done nothing.
Following the rules has done nothing.
Maybe a little intimidation might work a little better.

I agree going into closed areas is not good for the rest of us....but neither is being a responsible rider and not getting involved to help stop this crap.
A guy that goes into a closed area but helps fight the fight is just as bad as a guy who follows the rules but doesn't help fight.....your on a sled and that makes you an enemy and an enemy that doesn't fit back is useless.

With the lack of unity I've seen on these forums...well I'm not holding my breath anymore, I'll be riding that area that I've always wanted to try that got closed for BS reasons.

 

[Superjag]

I agree with whomever said that this does seem like a bit heady of a discussion for a snowmobile forum. Having said that, I have to chime in. Ski-Dooin'it, like someone already said, there is a reasonable amount of eloquence in your posts. The problem is that your underlying rationale is flawed and plagued by short-term thinking. Your actions, taken as a whole, while they may constitute civil disobedience (and make you feel better for having "stuck it to the man") ulitmately contrbute to the situation which self-admittedly frustrates you. As people have already tried to point out to you (some nicer than others), riding in closed areas may be your way of expressing your displeasure at losing those riding areas, but it seems pretty undeniable that it will only add fuel to the fire of those who want to close more areas. Example: If I am upset about not being able to hunt in certain areas of my state, I don't improve my situation by hunting in closed areas. All that does is allow the "other side" to point out that hunters are not capable of self-policing (they can't even follow the written rules!) and jump up and down at the outrage that is being inflicted by these "gun-totin' crazies". Want another example? Let's say your 16 year old kid wants to stay out past curfew. Are you more or less likely to listen to his or her side of the issue if they "argue" their point by sneaking out of their room at night?

It's the same with snowmobiling or just about any other issue. Trying to change a pattern of rules (or behavior) by breaking those rules, ultimately lessens the credibility and effectiveness of you and everybody else on your side. What is does do is fuel the other side's fire, and bring negative attention to your side, which in this case, hurts us as much as you.

You seem like a fairly intelligent young man (can't speak to any pm's which may have been sent as I have no knowledge of that subject) who is certainly smart enough to comprehend that your actions could be interpreted as relatively short-sighted and harmful to ALL snowmobilers in the long run. Since that is the case, I don't expect you'll receive a ton of support on this forum if that is the way you choose to express your displeasure. There are a ton of good ways to fight this trend. Write letters, support your local snowmobile club, get involved in local politics, etc.

You used the term "manning up" in one of your posts. I would argue that it is you who needs to "man up". Man up and start trying to make a difference in a way that is befitting of somebody who wants and deserves credibilty and respect instead of acting like the kid sneaking out the window at night.

Just my .02. Sorry so long.

 

[Weekday Warrior]

I'm not sure I'd be able to resist the temptation either givin the circumstances.

"If a tree falls in the woods does it make a noise?"

I don't know what the area is like where this dude rides, but if its like around here there is zero enforcement, zero skiers to pizz off and zero impact to land or wildlife. I see closed gates all the time, mostly because the FS is saving monies by not keeping roads up to specs and so lock the gates to avoid liablity.

Perhaps his closure is due to a grooming contract expiring? If so, what is the harm?


I guess I fall into the same catagory during the summer, because I ride my quad on closed roads every time I go out. I don't ride my sled in closed areas, temptation isn't there because there are so many open areas to ride.


I think I passed 1 skier last year, he was on a sledding trail and waved to me in a nice way.


I am SICK AND TIRED of the FS eroding our right to enjoy public lands.

 

[Clarke673]

Unfortunately I have a feeling the in the not to distant future all snowmobiling
will be illegal despite all the effortsof the great organizations out there that I support....The same is true with any motorized off-road vehicles....The same
is coming with regard to guns.....
I have broken the rules myself from time to time as we all have, sometimes unintentional, sometimes not.....I am not going to judge others....
I know it is not helping our cause, but, it happens and the reality of it is
that even if the greenies can't find legitimate violations to document, they will just invent some....happens all the time, not going to stop....

Just don't be too hard on the guy, he is young, we all make mistakes.
I'm sure everyone on here has broken the law before, maybe not with regard
to when/where you are riding snowmobiles, but, something like speeding, etc...

Not supporting the behavior, but, not throwing stones either....

agreed 100%

 

[mtn_extreme]

There could be alot of reasons for the closure that you are unaware and by your infringments, could be hurting something you know nothing about.

ex_

Wolves were introduced in specific areas according to wilderness definitions and management criteria. Although you don't think that your being seen, a helicopter or plane survey tels the feds if the state is doing it's job and whether their wolf management plan is worthy of acceptance. Alot of areas are closed for the benefit of ungulates who winter or birth in certain areas at specific times of the year. And whether or not you are getting caught in the act of riding in an enclosed area, trust me ... it doesn't go un-noticed. Thing about the long term of what your doing and how your hurting the chance your children will get to enjoy what you are now.

 

[SnowSnob]

The area ski-dooin is talking about is now closed in March due to Grizzly's???
It's BS because the Grizz don't go that high up to den and if they are up and moving there going to come down anyway.
Total BS.
Was that Malloy or Sullivan that ruled that gem??

 

[SnowSnob]

There could be alot of reasons for the closure that you are unaware and by your infringments, could be hurting something you know nothing about.

You mean like the elusive greenie that only wonders the areas we ride in????

I guarantee 80% of the time it's all political.

 

[mtn_extreme]

Point is that if the feds don't see the state complying, there not going to turn it over. How does ignoring the closure help fight the greenie? ........ it just proves their point!

 

[700 powder special]

Man that about says it all!

 

[Uller]

I must admit that I have ridden some roads prior to the start of the "Season". Did I hurt anyone or anything?????

Who is it that determines the "Season" anyhow and on what grounds?

I'm kinda tired of the whole play by the rules to not piss off others mentality.

I call you a conformer. Just another in the herd. Moooo

They don't play by the same rules and I don't think we should either. They view this as a war and have proven it time and time again. Enviros have: rammed whaling ships from other countries cause they don't like it, burned down entire ski lodges cause they don't like them, set boobie traps on riding trails to deter dirt biking, climbed trees on private property to stop logging, dug pits in logging roads to stop the trucks.

I'm tired of this sh*t!!!! I say use the skinny skiers for traction and ride where you want and when you want. They can't take it all away.

Flame on.

 

[mtn_extreme]

"They can't take it all away."

Wanna bet???


"I'm kinda tired of the whole play by the rules to not piss off others mentality.
I call you a conformer. Just another in the herd. Moooo"

Call me what you want, but I can (and so can millions of experienced others) tell you that there is a right way to buck the system and a wrong way. Your way will only cause more problems as it is human nature to fight back stronger than those who oppose you, you will lose all because your one man unorganized attempt will carry no weight. The right way at least has a chance because it carries numbers of organized peeps with worthy adgenda's.........AND........ their not just conforming!!

 

[Wheel House Motorsports]

sorry i missed out on quite a few posts while i was at class all day, but im gonna start to try and weed trough some things.

I will start with Mtn_extreme, I dont ride areas that were closed all year, i just go after dates, after i looked back at the entire winter, the only time i might have done it was this october when i went out and rode with a bunch of guys up a road when we got that freak snow storm that dropped about five feet.

"The area ski-dooin is talking about is now closed in March due to Grizzly's???
It's BS because the Grizz don't go that high up to den and if they are up and moving there going to come down anyway.
Total BS.
Was that Malloy or Sullivan that ruled that gem??"

Bingo sir, that is why we are not able to ride past march 15 anymore, and a bunch of other things in the area have been totally shut down including logging in tons of places.

"A guy that goes into a closed area but helps fight the fight is just as bad as a guy who follows the rules but doesn't help fight." - snowsnob

even though i dont want to try and act like i am being better than anyone else, but i feel like this comment really sums up my thinking.

I dont mind listening to others opinions and trying to learn from it, but guys, making fun of me and calling me a child doesnt get much done for getting a point across, its about as affective calling an enviromentalist a "greenie" to there face, all it does is make em mad, and make their opinion of snowmobilers worse.

What i was doing in those posts was advising those who were gonna ride early anyways, so i was telling were they could do it with the least obvious affects.

I KNOW WHAT IM DOING IS WRONG, i get it, im just trying to explain why it happens.

I would make a pretty safe bet that even though i openly admit to some of the things i do wrong, many of those condeming me for what i do wrong have violated just as many closure rules as i have and dont even know it, like there are plenty of trails in to our riding areas that are road corridors, with chutes coming out of it, so as soon as you make a poke up it your just as wrong as i am, but the people who go and do it have no idea what there doing.

 

[mtn_extreme]

So why the "comment" when you gave me negative reps saying "shut the **** up"?

You ask for honest opinions and that is what you got, why even negative rep?

And anyway you look at it, breaking the law (either right or wrong) is a childish act done from lack of in-experience.


Go back and read SuperJag's post , he says it right!

"You used the term "manning up" in one of your posts. I would argue that it is you who needs to "man up". Man up and start trying to make a difference in a way that is befitting of somebody who wants and deserves credibilty and respect instead of acting like the kid sneaking out the window at night."

 

[WYsteph]

They don't play by the same rules and I don't think we should either. They view this as a war and have proven it time and time again. Enviros have: rammed whaling ships from other countries cause they don't like it, burned down entire ski lodges cause they don't like them, set boobie traps on riding trails to deter dirt biking, climbed trees on private property to stop logging, dug pits in logging roads to stop the trucks.

But why does them doing stupid and illegal stuff make it right for us to do the same things? When we do those kinds of things too how does that cause the rest of the world to view us snowmobilers? Why would you want it to be said of us that we behave the same way as those extremists?

I agree with mtn extreme! Good post!

Do what the polygamists do (even though they do it for illegal reasons ), it seems to working for them. Be active in your politics local and otherwise and have to stay organized.

A big thank you to the groups and individuals that are doing this, keep fighting the good fight brothers…

 

[Uller]

"They can't take it all away."

Wanna bet???

"I'm kinda tired of the whole play by the rules to not piss off others mentality.
I call you a conformer. Just another in the herd. Moooo"

Call me what you want, but I can (and so can millions of experienced others) tell you that there is a right way to buck the system and a wrong way. Your way will only cause more problems as it is human nature to fight back stronger than those who oppose you, you will lose all because your one man unorganized attempt will carry no weight. The right way at least has a chance because it carries numbers of organized peeps with worthy adgenda's.........AND........ their not just conforming!!

I will take that bet. They can not and will not close everything!!! and if by some chance they do I would dbl or nothing that there will be a large group of us (Snowmobilers) which won't abide by the new rules they have imposed upon us anyhow.

I think that you are incorrect in you opinion that 1 won't matter and can't make a difference. There are too many examples where one person has made a significant impact. Examples: Ghandi, Martin Luther King, Abe Lincoln, even Hitler.

Tell you what, once they close it all you can use me to make a point to get it reopened cause they are gonna have to kill me before I quit riding.