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DragonFreak
Well-known member
Now if all the skier want to continue in the conversation or at least read it they'll have to pay up.
Now I see the good in a pay site.
Well said Boss
I hope this wasn't one of you guys.
- Thread starter dfinn
- Start date
Well said Boss
I just got the " You have reached the limit of your Free Basic Member reading privileges. To continue reading this thread, please upgrade to Premium Member status." message.
So I'm going to assume that nails is still a dick, skiers still can't figure out that they're desire for quite doesn't trump the snomobilers desire to be there as well and that even though these skiers are dinks it isn't popular to bury them in a slide (bummer).
BTW snowest and it's nazi forum sales tactics still suck.
So I'm going to assume that nails is still a dick, skiers still can't figure out that they're desire for quite doesn't trump the snomobilers desire to be there as well and that even though these skiers are dinks it isn't popular to bury them in a slide (bummer).
BTW snowest and it's nazi forum sales tactics still suck.
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FUAC
Well-known member
Our goal is to give people the tools they need to stay alive in avalanche terrain. We don't discriminate by mode of transportation. We report avalanche conditions, provide a forum for people to report incidents and noteworthy events, and we occasionally call out dangerous and inappropriate behavior, whether it is done by skiers, snowboarders, sledders, hikers, inner tubers, or anyone else. One of the basic rules is you don't ride above someone else in avalanche terrain. Charging another backcountry user, aiming at them and then turning away, seems like sort of a hostile move and a poor way to make a point. Those were the complaints in Nalli's report. This is not about sleds vs skiers - that just as easily could have been another sledder that felt threatened.
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ACMtnCat
Well-known member
With the LOW avy danger rating that your ski party reported that day, I say "yeah... not cool to highmark the skier." But it was NOT life threatening! and was not very close to the skier in the picture.
But the fact still remains your pointing fingers and telling the public that the snowmobiler was outside his property rights, while being in the wrong yourselves! Your trespassing! You shouldn't have been there!
But the fact still remains your pointing fingers and telling the public that the snowmobiler was outside his property rights, while being in the wrong yourselves! Your trespassing! You shouldn't have been there!
1st off let me say that high marking a skier or sledder is definitely wrong. But I disagree with your post. The following is what was written under the picture
"Today I witnessed a blatant act of disrespect and disregard for safety in the mountains. There has historically been much controversy between the many different user groups of the Wasatch, too much to get into now, but it has gotten out of hand. A group of snowmobilers made their way into upper cardiff and began highmarking many slopes including those outside of their property rights. As they got further up the drainage they saw my party ascending below cardiac ridge and in an obvious attempt to intimidate, one of them put his sights on us and drove his sled directly towards us and highmarked one member of our group. It also just happened to be near one of those yawning glide cracks and again, not on their land. Completely unacceptable. Something needs to be done about this before someone gets hurt."
This sounds to me to be a very one sided attack on snowmobilers and addressing a "historically controversy between user groups" is showing an agenda. Then the writer gets on here and calls snowmobilers uneducated DB's. They obviously have an already negative vibe towards sledders and the UAC is allowing them to air their personal agenda on the UAC site. It is obvious to me that the writer took an bad situation and decided to use it as ammo for their agenda and you are supporting the friction. It very well could have been written differently as to bring attention to the safety issue without attacking a group as a whole and creating a controversial issue.
The fact that you keep supporting this attitude really bothers me. Like I side the safety issue is there, the way it was approached, and attacked is WRONG. It simply promotes an agenda.
I feel if anyone understands both sides, I do. I spent many, many years in formal avy training, worked Ski Patrol at a local resort performing avy control and spent many, many days back country skiing on my days off. I understand what takes them to the backcountry. The same thing takes sledders to the back country. These days I prefer to sled over ski. It is just more fun for me. But the point is we both use the backcountry for similar reasons. We should respect each others right, not find a reason to start a fire fight with a personal agenda as I see happening from the write up associated with the picture.
Every year I donate over $100 to the UAC because I believe in what they do and I believe it saves lives, but if the UAC is going to support an agenda pitting skiers against sledders those donations will come to a screaming halt.
I'd also like to know if the sledders were ever talked to about the issue and if their side of the story was learned? The writer decides to give her/his opinion of the sledders motives to "set their sites" on the skiers and give the image of the sledder suddenly going into attack mode against the skiers. Ridiculous. It seems silly to me to believe this group of sledders were maliciously targeting the skiers as implied. While it may have been possible, I doubt it was the case. It was probably just a dumb mistake by a snowmobiler that lacked proper avy training and didn't know any better.
Again, my big issue is your (FUAC) desire to support a write up that clearly has an agenda. A mistake was made by the sledder in the picture, then a mistake was made by the observer writing up the picture, then a mistake was made by FUAC for allowing an agenda to continually be used on it's site. Two of this mistakes could be fixed with an apology and a new write up that does not promote an agenda.
Utah is alive and well
Not one hijack yet!! That really means people are serious. Alright time to sit back and watch some more. I only have 10 more posts of fun then its on to something else.
Maybe riding...............that sounds good!
I know someone that was dieing to hijack. Any guesses? LOL!
This thread finally made me upgrade to a paid member. I wanted to see the response from the Utah Avalanche center as I have helped them raise money in the past.
First of what the sledder did is not right and should have not occured.
I read the UAC response and you say you dont want to get into the land debate but then on your website it states that the sledder was trespassing? If you wanted to point out the danger then that is what you should have pointed out. There should have been no mention of the sledder trespassing or highmarking in off sled areas. What value did this add to the story of you wanting to point out a danger? All you are doing is feeding the need for people to hate snowmobilers.
I have been a big supporter of the Utah Avalanche Center but this hurts.
People make mistakes but that should not reflect on the entire community. How it is worded on your website is shedding a very bad light on the sledding community.
This could have been written much better and pointed out the danger only.
Doug
First of what the sledder did is not right and should have not occured.
I read the UAC response and you say you dont want to get into the land debate but then on your website it states that the sledder was trespassing? If you wanted to point out the danger then that is what you should have pointed out. There should have been no mention of the sledder trespassing or highmarking in off sled areas. What value did this add to the story of you wanting to point out a danger? All you are doing is feeding the need for people to hate snowmobilers.
I have been a big supporter of the Utah Avalanche Center but this hurts.
People make mistakes but that should not reflect on the entire community. How it is worded on your website is shedding a very bad light on the sledding community.
This could have been written much better and pointed out the danger only.
Doug
It was soooo worth it! I love that place
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built4dtuff
Well-known member
Im confused....Does FUAC not stand for F$&K U Arctic Cat?
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snengineer
Well-known member
Me too.....Don't let me down peeps! BTOTY (Best thread of the Year)
BC skiers want quiet (and the never mentioned but all important driving force of the winter land use debate....freshies). The solution is simple and found within existing Wilderness.
"Skiers have the central wasatch and a few corners that can be reached within a day"
....you make it sound so bleak....Skiers have the best terrain, the best/most snow, the closest access, most pristine landscapes and views of utah in the winter all at there fingertips (lone peak wilderness, twin peak wilderness, anything within salt lake county that is ski-able public land, timp wilderness, nebo wilderness and several outlying areas off limits to sleds for the sole purpose of BC skiers having a place to go). Which I can deal with. What we as sledders cannot deal with is the fact that the group you associate with (BC skiers) are doing everything they can do to get us as far away from any MORE potential area that falls within these terms......"best terrain, the best snow, the closest access, most pristine landscapes and views of utah in the winter". And the BC skiers will not stop until they have it all.
So we are pissed and will continue to fight for our rights....In the summer I probably hike as much as you ski these areas...I love it, its beautiful, its preserved from destruction, I appreciate that.
We fear the group you are representing here will continue to do what they have always done, find ways to keep sleds out of all areas ski-able....which is not right and so we are pissed.
Honestly, I for one have never pushed to have snowmobiles excluded from areas other than the ones from which they are already excluded, and I don't think they should be. My point was that the wildernesses and areas within SLCounty should be free of snowmobiles because, if you opened up, for instance, Days and Silver Fork to snowmobiles, they would quickly become so crowded with sleds that skiers and snowshoers could never go there because of the fear of being run over. Plus (and I know this one may be hard for sledders to understand) but when people go out to hike, x-c ski or BC ski, a bunch of motors whizzing by prettyy much destroys the experience, as you are always having to look over your shoulder to make sure you don't get hit by a guy on a sled.
I do agree that occassional sleds don't bother anyone. In the less heavily used places, motorized and non-motorized uses can co-exist. I just think there is a solid justification for excluding them from the heavily used mountains closest to SLC. You can unlimited numbers of people into an area on foot and they won't bother each other. But, have those unlimited numbers, with half of them on machines that go 50mph and weigh several hundred pounds and all of sudden, you've got a dangerous situation.
Anyway, I understand your frustration, but I just think that the current rules are pretty well justified. I appreciate you being fairly civil in your response.
Really?? getting hit by a sled?? look I know we all go fast and that the sound my sled makes may not be something you want to hear but the last thing I'm gonna do is hit a skier, seriously that is a joke to even type that response.
The other week me and M8Chris were up Franklin Basin and we ran into a lady who has a team of dogs. Now I now she's not a skier but this lady showed us nothing but kindness. She let us pet her dogs and she told us how she loves the grooming program and that she may end up buying both UT and ID snowmobile tags just to help with the program!! It's to bad that everyone could not show the kindness this lady showed us. She understood that sharing the trail is a must and that it's sleds that help her with her passion and that's with her team of dogs. I have actually run into her up Cub River 3 or 4 times and love to talk to this lady just for the fact how awesome she is.
When I first pulled up a few years ago and seen that team of dogs on a Wednesday I thought she was gonna be rude and hate us for showing up and ruining her day because she was the only one parked at the cub river parking. But in fact she walked over to me and my buddy Mitch and told us back then how much she loved the groomed trails and supported snowmobiles as it allows her dogs to have an easy trail to mush on!!
you skiers can bi tch all you want but in the end like I have said public is public and everyone has a right to use it if it's done in a respectable manor!!
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SledsWest
Well-known member
EXACTLY!!! Talk about biting the hand that feeds you. The UAC posting this on their website is about as ludicrous as a kid telling EVERYBODY how stupid, uneducated and un-needed his parents are to their faces and then turning to them and asking them for some money so he can keep paying his internet bill in order to keep blasting his parents character to everybody. Not smart UAC....not smart at all.
Great, now I'm a YAHOO too. I just can't get any respect.
No Chit! If you don't want a bike flying by you while hunting, don't hunt next to the trails. If you are afraid of a sled hitting you, stay off the trails and head to wilderness.
Everywhere else, expect to share with the public.
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DRAPE
Well-known member
Great, now I'm a YAHOO too. I just can't get any respect.
I used to like you...
Great, now I'm a YAHOO too. I just can't get any respect.
I told you he'd hijack somehow. Least he didn't post that his dog lost a tooth last night.
Ignorant and selfish attitude. Pure and simple.
When I BC skied I had no problems with hearing and seeing sleds. When I hunt I expect mtn bikers, dirt bikers and horses on the trails....I hunt away from them. When I BC skied I would often stop sledders and chat with them. You ought to try it sometime, you'll find they are good folks that would be more than willing to lend a hand to you if needed. Sledders are becoming more and more avy savvy and may just be the first ones on scene to help with your next skier avalanche rescue. At that time I think your opinion and attitude will change a little and you will suddenly be grateful to have them in the area you previously did not want to share with them. Stop being so selfish and appreciate what each group has to offer. More than once I have given BC skiers a lift to the top for an extra run because I know what that run means to them.
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1MEX
Well-known member
Great, now I'm a YAHOO too. I just can't get any respect.
I don't like yahoos. but i like DinDongs.... What is a yahoo
?? we need to give Adam an A for a well written post....
