GET FACTS STRAIGHT! Snowest Misleading Readers about Cooke City.

[khogan]

LSB your are a very interesting person. After my first post on 5-11, you came back and started this whole personal attach drama.

In my posts I have been steep on criticism towards you as you have not presented facts only attempted to start a rally that would appear from the outside, to benefit you personally. Not, make Cooke City a better place.

I went so far earlier this week to PM you and say let's keep the discussion going but keep it above the belt. You never responded to that.....

Since then though, you have called me (and you can look back at all the posts): hypocrite; fringe element; Mr. Vulgar; Rude little head; ugly little instigator; insinuator; and last (before Snowest edited it) you call me a Piece of (rhymes with pit).

So, as I state in my PM and in response to your last name for me "I will be up Memorial day. Talk to me like that in person and see what happens" I said that. I don't think there are many people that would tolerate being called the names and a piece of (rhymes with pit). YOU have pushed it too far with the name calling. I have been critical because I don't think this has been thought through, and I think you are motivated entirely by money not what is best for Cooke City/surrounding forest. My decision is not based on what is best for your business.

Will you even have the seeds to come up to me let alone discuss this professionally? Without calling people names that disagree with you (again look through the posts I have not called you names only been critical of your plan)? When you come will you bring some facts that substantiate your position? Rather you have been the one that has called people names if they disagree with you.

You are the one that has been hiding behind the screen. Bring me facts without your name calling and I am sure we can discuss.

 

[LSB]

Ha you somehow spin things into me starting with all the personal stuff and being the keyboard jockey. You are insinuating and instigating things. You have been rude, and yes I finally stooped to your level which I then edited, to remain tasteful, NOT SnoWest. Your too much. Don't expect any more responses from me.

The meeting was held, we move on from here. Businesses will do what they must to succeed and we will all hopefully work together to maintain the current level of motorized access.

 

[WyoBoy1000]

Well those last few post where worthless for the point of this discussion. I'll be up next weekend to ride, what days are you going to be there Khogan. The article where the FS says its not there problem until the trail leaves the road, well they may try to make it not there problem all together. Getting them to do something like that takes big numbers or the right people to push it through.

PS LBS if you can't take it, there is an option to delete the thread, and no you shouldn't have to deal with it but I don't think I should have to pay $4 a gallon for gas either. Its life, as for someone pm they will harm you physically, thats a little out of hand and shouldn't happen either but again, you can stop it when ever you like.

 

[khogan]

Wyoboy, we will be up on Saturday and Sunday (Monday if the snow isn't getting rotten). See if you can gather up Rubberhead. Did you go up on the pass with him yesterday?

Are you coming up this weekend?

 

[firecatguy]

Wyoboy, we will be up on Saturday and Sunday (Monday if the snow isn't getting rotten). See if you can gather up Rubberhead. Did you go up on the pass with him yesterday?

Are you coming up this weekend?

BTBC??

 

[TRS]

Will keep everyone informed on any thing new. The Yellowstone Business Partnership wrapped up their conference yesterday. It was based on the transportation aspect in and around Yellowstone.

 

[Ox]

CajunKid:

(long time no see BTW)


You mentioned at the top about having to buy a Wyoming tag. Is this something reasonably new? We haven't been there in several yrs, but when we were there I thought that we did NOT need a Wy tag to ride in from the lot. ???


FWIW - an open or closed road would not effect my decission to come to Cook either way as long as we could leave our gear at the motel untill we are done riding on the last day. Have never been there when someone was wanting our room anytime soon. Actually we even let ourselves in one night when no-one was around. Thanks to a key that was where it wasn't sposed to be. (glad it was!)

Kinda freaked your Ma out the next morning tho.


Is there vandalism issues at either of the lots that is an issue? Not familier with the Montana lot, but the Wy lot is a LONG way to drive for childish pranks. However - one time there was a cpl of kids out for a day drive I guess that got out there and didn't realize that it was a dead end, and did NOT have gas to git back home. So we sold them what we had in the trailer.

How can you live in Cody and not know that the rd aint through?

.

 

[TRS]

They are at it again.
When you book or spend your Dollars in Cooke City, ask the business you are dealing with if they support the road plowed. Supporters are not your friend. I personally have stopped supporting them.
If the road is plowed the Wyoming trail system (TOW) goes away, gone, dead, period. No parking area and no trail system.
I talked with Randy at Soda Butte, he is supporting plowing the road, He said plowing the road would be a boom to his business. Randy said he wants to sell and move to Vegas. Does this sound like he cares what happens to snowmobiling and Cooke City???????
The business' in Cooke that support plowing the road have written and signed a letter, ask to read it. You will find a lot of misinformation, and info that has been taken out of context.
You may be pro or con for plowing the road, that is your decision, I am NOT. I have spent countless hours getting the Beartooth system to where it is today for your enjoyment. I do not want to loose it.

Tony R. Simek

 

[2XM3]

Plowing the road would be a HUGE mistake....leave it the way it is. All your asking for is another crowded, restricted,tourist trap of a sled area . you are opening pandoras box if you think anything good will come of this.

 

[khogan]

I support TRS (Tony) on this. Make sure you ask the businesses if they support the plowing before you support them. The people that want to make a quick buck and do not care about the long term effects this will have on wintersports or Cooke City support plowing. I can only think of ONE business in Cooke City that supports this that is not for sale. The rest are all for sale that support this.

If they support it ask the following:
1. Is your business for sale?
2. How will snowmobiliers access Daisy/Lulu Trails? (Once it is plowed we lose the trail, they will not allow snowmobilers to simply run in the ditch AND they will not allow for construction of a new trail)
2. Where do they propose parking vehicles/trailers?
3. How will plowing town/unknown parking area be handled?
4. How will the sewage problems Cooke City currently has be handled? This surge in revenue is obviously created by more people = more sewage for systems that are already exceeding capacity and failing. (yes, that water you see running down the side of main street is live sewage on those bliss 80 degree summer days)
5. Who will pay for this plowing? Or, more specifically what tax dollars are you proposing we use for a country that is financially broke? Will they be federal funds, state funds, county funds, or local funds? (I own a place in Cooke City, am I expected to pay for it or are all tax payers going to fund this?)
6. Who is going to patrol this section?
7. Who will handle emergency response? It is in Park Co. Montana, but Park County EMS is seperated by Yellowstone Park. Will Cody, WY be handling this even though it is not in their area?

This clearly has not been thought through by everyone, only the people that stand a chance to benefit short term financially. I have a letter from Rick Sommers (owner of the Exxon and lifetime resident of Cooke City) that he sent out on his position. It does a great job of laying out the fact of this. If anyone is interested in it I would be happy to scan and email it to you. PM me for a copy of this.

Another thing to ask...What tax dollars are paying the $250,000 bill to "research" if this section should be plowed?

 

[B C]

So would you still be able to access the TOW area from the junction if this were to go through? Surely they wouldn't plow up that way?

 

[khogan]

Not with out loading up in a trailer and driving to Chief Joesph junction.

 

[TRS]

Access may be denied.

Over a decade ago, I met on the ground with the Forest Service and State Trails. There were safety concerns in the canyon below Beartooth Lake, with the possibility of closing access to TOW. They determined that with continued grooming through the canyon, safely traversing the canyon would no longer be a concern.

Plowing of the road from Cooke to the Jct. of 212 and the Chief Joseph Highway will set the wheels in motion. The connecting trail will be gone forcing the State to stop funding the grooming, trails will no longer be marked, the Safety Shelter will be gone. The Shoshone Forest will revisit safety concerns. Will the Forest Service close/gate the canyon????

You can boondock around through Clay Butte, but the Forest has proposed to add that narrow band to the wilderness.
In the past, the forest has been trying to add all the high lakes area to the wilderness(north of the safety shelter). Without a trail system and safety concerns how long do you think it will take them?

You can trailer over but where will you park, ride? Have you studied the 2011 motorized Forest Service map?

I can fill pages with info for your reading pleasure. If you are new to this thread and have the time, read it all.

Plowing the proposed stretch of 212 will end snowmobiling in the Cooke City/Beartooth region. All of us have lost countless areas to ride. Ask yourself, do we really want to loose this gem of the snowmobile world????? Stand up for your passion, there is no room for compromise. We have been kicked around long enough. Those that support the plowing do not share the passion that you do for our sport. When they can fill their rooms and booths with wolf watchers we will loose. Plowing the road will allow the tour buss' client to push us out.

 

[TRS]

Lets hear from Bob and Robert. They read and post here all the time. They send clients from their establishments to the Top of the World. They signed the letter to plow the road??????

 

[TRS]

Have you talked to a business owner that supports plowing???? What are their comments when you quiz them about loosing the trail system?
Use your voice and dollars as the power of persuasion. Tell them how you feel about loosing the trail system.
Snowmobiling is your sport, get moving before you loose it.

This issue was dead last spring but has been put on the front burner again by a few individuals. They are like the enviros that just keep coming at you, if you relax they will eventually get it to pass.

 

[B C]

I have talked to multiple business owners in Cooke, and done some research for myself. I've fought hard for this sport for many many years, thanks for the tips. Access may be denied? As usual most of the questions cannot be answered by either side, including the one I asked a few posts ago.

 

[turboless terry]

I like to keep the snow to myself but times are changing. There are no more secret hideaways anymore. I think the sport is slowly dwindling. Most the people I started sledding with have quit. If you don't promote the sport and draw more people it will eventually come to a halt. I don't ride Cooke as much as I used to because it gets trampled so fast but I can always find new snow when we do go. I never go out towards top of the world because I am not going to waste my gas to ride that much trail. I wouldn't use the east entrance but that doesn't mean someone else shouldn't. Yes, the business people are going to make more money but they are also the one's promoting the sport which is few and far between anymore. I don't see the down side to plowing the road. It is more expensive but, if you haven't noticed, the government has an endless supply of money. There will be issues but it is nothing that can't be resolved. Either way it is done probably won't make any difference for me but it might for someone else. Selfishness is what is killing our sport.

 

[TRS]

We were informed in a meeting last spring that when the road from the Jct. (CJH/212) to Cooke gets plowed the park will be closed to private vehicles. Buss's and Cooke residents will be allowed through the park. Cooke residents need to get to their county seat. All others will have to go around and access over the Chief Joseph Highway.
Those visiting from the west will have a long drive or will ride somewhere else. With that said there will be less tracks in Cooke, that would be good for me.
The road to the TOW will not be plowed and there will not be a parking area located at the Jct.. A proposed parking lot was shot down years ago. We had a scoping committee from the Forest Service, Wyoming State Trails, and CCSA on the ground looking for a suitable location. The Shoshone Forest could not find an acceptable location. All accessible and large enough parking areas had a negative visual impact. We were and are dealing with a Scenic Byway classification.
If the Highway is plowed there are no easy quick fixes to any of the problems. I do not object to plowing the road as long as there is no net loss of trail system/parking. When all potential losses are addressed and reroutes implemented on the ground, only then will I agree that the road be plowed. So far all I get is "lets plow the road and we will address concerns later", I don't buy it. The snowmobile community was promised that a new rerouted trail would be built along with the highway upgrade. Where is it? The snowmobile community was promised, and the FS received grant money, for a bathroom at pilot. Where is it?(Long Lake)
I don't know why I keep beating my head against the wall, I think I will go play in the sand. Oh, they are trying to take that away also. Hmm, bowling, swimming, quilting, needle point, sit at home on the couch??????? I'll just join the masses and go back to backpacking, won't have to worry about running into any motorized users. I won't even have to buy a users permit. I will get to sell the truck,42' trailer, sleds, parts, tools, cabin and shop in Crandall. Move to a third world country and sit in the sand(back to the sand thing) with Kenny Chesney.

 

[B C]

Thanks for more info TRS, I had no idea they would close the park to public vehicles. I rescanned the thread, but didn't see it in there. Not a deal breaker to me as it's about the same either way I go. But again, important info that's not being publicized.

The business owners I talked to definatley said rider numbers are down. I believe it, I used to ride there 7-8 times a season, and every other weekend when I lived in Blngs. Now we are lucky if we make it 2-3. A lot of other groups I know rarely go there anymore. The faces in town have definately changed and become fewer. Being a small business owner, I can still relate to increasing business.

I think there's even more info out there from both sides. How good the is the info? That's questionable, especially from govt agencies; or those with nothing but money on their minds.

But let's face it, we are dealing with multiple govt. agencies and anything "promised" will never develop. That is enough of a reason there to say...

I'm not in favor of plowing the road, unless a trail system was developed first. And from the sounds of it that's not going to happen.

Thanks again for the work you put into this TRS, like I stated earlier it's definately my favorite place to ride. And I know you've been instramental in keeping it open. Keep posting info, I think many on here have changed their minds with more info. And good on you for continuing to fight, I haven't completely given up but have lost a lot of steam the last few years. Trying to nail jello to Forest Service trees gets tiring. I'm going on the ride where the f*c$ you want plan first, then exploring the sand idea.

 

[CATSLEDMAN1]

univeral arguments

this plow no plow discussion has taken on the same time worn counterpoints that have raged for ever in western develpment"

1. you live in the big city and its to your personal advantage to keep the small town folks dumb, redneck, quaint, and hungry so the haves can drop in when convient, soak up a little local color when it pleases, throw the folks a few crumbs and pearls of wisdom ...........and when the haves are done, go back to good people, better whiskey and a got bath.

2 Its how Conneticut feels about Montana. Quaint place Montana, cowboys that will take you to the woods for peanuts. Rednecks in a trailer house or three bedroom hovel and a turbo Yamaha in he front yard. People that fish with worms instead of paying attention to wall street invesments.


3. Plowing money ?? thats not even funny, An EIS on plowing a road.........well orchestrated small time beaucratic govenemental peon blackmail. If the money people in the glass towers want it, Alaska will be all lawn tennis courts. Cost, not an issue.

4. Cooke city..........suck it up. You're a warm wash cloth for our face when it pleases. Money for you...........just who the heck do you think you are ? When you're toooo broke and leave, another sucker will show, new homesteader born every minute, you know we say..........poor people have poor ways.