Climate change

[Hawkster]

Typical 200 amp battery, but it's lithium, was $1499.99 now $950.00

Dakota Lithium 200 Ah 12V LiFePO4 Deep Cycle Battery

12v lifepo4 is long-lasting with 3X power battery. 200ah lithium battery is a perfect replacement for marine/boating, solar energy, RVs & electric vehicles.

dakotalithium.com

Distributor is out of Washington State but the Dakota name sounds so much cleaner. Comes out of Imperial Valley Mine CA, ran by a China company that enjoys some tax exemptions.

Article is in Diesel World Magazine, Nov.2021

Besides Berkshire Hathaway the other is Controlled Thermal Resources a GM company name (what ever that means) and claim they will produce 40% of global lithium demand.

Governor Newsom Visits Lithium Valley to Highlight Momentum on Becoming Global Source for Battery Production | California Governor

WHAT YOU NEED TO KNOW: Lithium Valley is on track to become one of the world’s largest sources of lithium, the essential material for EV batteries – positioning California to be the global hub for…

www.gov.ca.gov

 

[High Voltage]

By the numbers:


Volvo truck lists their EV class 8 trucks @ 575 kwh batt capacity, and 275 mile range.

It is 270 miles from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
This would be one of the most popular target routes for a class 8 electric truck at this time that I am aware of.

Let's use $.13/kwh as a commercial "off peak demand" rate for recharging in Vegas.
And we can use $.20 for off peak charging in LA.

335Kwh of grid power consumed to recharge (see PDF link clear at the bottom of post) @ $.13/kwh = $43.50 to recharge truck.
Or $67 in LA.
If diesel powered and @ 6mpg @ $4/gal - that would be $180 in fuel - as a comparison.

*(edited in later) Make note that the diesel fuel would have $20-$25 of road tax included that is not shown on the electric truck consumables cost, that should be added.


50 trucks (let's use the higher of the two volumes that this fella spewed) @ 335kw = 17,000 kw = .017 Mw
(A far cry from the 5.6 (or 56?) Mw that the guy in the vid spewed)

Las Vegas seems to have a peak load of approximately 5000 Mw on summer load.

An added .017Mw load it'self onto a currently 5000Mw draw would seem somewhat insignificant to me.
Even if the charge numbers are somehow off a bit, it is still so far from a noticeable load change that the video is maliciously beyond ridiculous.

This last summer I read in Motor Trend the test results of various EV vehicles, and I tried to compare as best that I could to what the gasoline version of the same vehicle would be. And (of course depending on your local Kwh rate) but it seemed that the cost/mile driven in perishables only - seemed to be about 1/2 of the gasoline counterpart. But again, that could change quickly depending on if I am missing something in the AC/KVA to DC KWH conversion somehow?

Now - I am not saying that if every truck coming through that route was electric that it would not be a noticeable increased load, but we are talking about 30-50 trucks here.


A Mw = one million watts
A Kw = one thousand watts
A Kwh = one thousand watt usage for an hours time.



Links of referance:

VNR Electric I Volvo Trucks USA

The future is now.100% electric. 0% emissions when charged with renewable energy. Manufactured in Dublin, Virginia.

www.volvotrucks.us

The link below suggests more, but other links that I have found would suggest it a little lower, depending on what % LV's power draw is of S Nevada as a whole.
So I am using a smaller number.

Which uses more power: Disney or Las Vegas?

Which uses more electrical power: All of the hotels and attractions on the Las Vegas strip, or all of the hotels and attractions within Walt Disney World in Florida?

ask.metafilter.com

The price of residential electricity is $.18/kwh.
Not sure if Vegas would receive much 3rd shift break on hydro rates or not?

Electricity Cost in Las Vegas, NV: 2024 Electric Rates | EnergySage

How much does electricity cost in Las Vegas, NV? Learn what average electric rates and electric bills looks like in Las Vegas, NV.

www.energysage.com

Electricity Cost in Los Angeles, CA: 2024 Electric Rates | EnergySage

How much does electricity cost in Los Angeles, CA? Learn what average electric rates and electric bills looks like in Los Angeles, CA.

www.energysage.com

How far is Las Vegas from Los Angeles - driving distance

Get a quick answer: It's 270 miles or 435 km from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, which takes about 4 hours, 2 minutes to drive.

www.trippy.com

how much is a mw of electricity - Google Search

I have a hard time believing these numbers, and would ask that someone that understands this stuff a little more to look them over, and to please explain how a unit with a reported efficiency rating of 95% consumes 88.32 kw (184A x 480VAC) and produces 150kw output? the answer must be in the 3 phase input? If we doubled the 88.32, we would then be at 85% efficiency as far as I would understand. ??? Or possibly somehow AC power not rated equal to DC power? IDK. Either way, per the spec sheet, it would take prox 340 kwh AC to recharge a 575 kwh DC battery.

https://www.power-sonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/EVDC-150-NA-150kW-DC-Fast-Charger-480VAC.pdf

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Sorry but 17,000 KW = 17 MW

 

[Ox]

So what happened? Or should I say what powers killed this? The peasants?



If history has anything to teach it's how those in charge feed the sheep.

Maybe some one can fact check this?

Amazingly enough, this does appear to be true.


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[High Voltage]

An average household consumes 10,715 kWh per year. There are 2.53 people in the average household. A city of 1 million, on average, will therefore contain 395,257 houses. Now here’s what I don’t know. I don’t know if those figures average in industrial consumption, but I’ll assume it doesn’t. Residential only makes up 37% of power consumption (with commercial and industrial basically consuming the other 2/3rds).

So going with those numbers, Let’s take the 395257 households X .37 That gives you 146,245 households per Megawatt city. Taking 146,245 households X 17 Megawatts you would normally be able to supply a city of 2,486,166 households. Now taking the 2,486,166 households X 2.53 people per household You get 6,290,001 people.
You would normally be able to supply a city of 6,290,001 people and surrounding businesses for that size of city.
Now you can see why the city official asked if they were serious because that is the amount our whole city uses!

 

[Ox]

Per the link in the previous post, it says that the US consumes 4300B KWH's / year
330M people
13,030 KWH/Yr/person incl all commercial use.

That agrees with your numbers purty much heads up.

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[Ox]

It looks like you put a fair amount of research into all that, so that's no small feat.

As far as your numbers not coming from "a propaganda output", the hair stands up on my back knowing full well most internet searches have been tweaked/skewed/and re-written to cater to the climate change hysteria.

That's not directly on you Ox, but a real variable in the info on this topic that is readily available may or may not be politicized by paid scientific researchers, engineers and of course promoted by big tech. I assimilate it to Biden injecting "true story" into one of his senile rants - that's a mental cue that the rest of the story is a lie.

Anyways, I'm heading back from Alabama and will do some looking into weather or not Ox's findings have opposing opinions or not.

As with all new technologies, claims and theories always have a hard time living up to reality.

Well, I think that the only numbers that could really be questioned, would be Volvo's claim to miles/KWH.
I am assuming that their numbers represent a fully loaded truck, but ...

And then the other numbers that would be in question would be the input/output of the charger that I linked.
I did not look at other chargers. That was the first one that I found that had a proper data sheet attached.

Although - I doo still have questions about how we get from 88KVA input to 150 KW output. That doesn't seem right, but again - there must be something in the 3phase AC (ass_u_ming that is as I don't think it actually says 3 phase) v/s a single DC output. But I still would love an EE or whatnot to qualify that.

The rest of the numbers are just how much juice a given city consumes / how many people, but when you get into suburbs and all, it is hard to tell if the number that you are looking at for this rate is for the city proper, or for the "Greater area", and then trying to compare the two units together.... So I find the "total USA" numbers to be more accurately comparable. And those agreed with High Voltages numbers as well, even tho we came to the same result from different ends.

Of course you can modify the input data both directions from what I used to get an answer that fits a given cause. If you want to show a huge draw, you can opt the truck with bigger batts and a shorter charge time. But this would absolutely kill your KWH rate with an extremely high demand fee, so in your best interest to spread it out as much as possible. On the other hand, you could stick with the standard batts, and opt for a longer charge time, or not expect that all 50 trucks will hit the charger at the same time.

Like if you still went with the 4 hr charge time, but only 25 chargers - that would cut the draw in half. You could likely even go with 17 chargers and have trucks switching out all night. Or if your fleet didn't run days only, you could have some charging off and on all day, bringing the KVA draw down even more, but then starting to get into "On hours" (if that's a term? - Not "Off Hours" charging rate anyhow...).

The other part of the equazsion is the size of the city compared to. My point was that the vid is showing a MAJOR city, and for the trucks KVA requirement that he is talking about would require that the 50 trucks have trippple capacity batts (and extra 4 tons?) and all 50 charging inside a 4 hr window. And then comparing to a community that just meets "city" min requirements, not a metropolis like they show.

I have no cock in this fight, and I drive Cummins, and even make some parts for Cummins. I doo not like change, especially when it is forced. And my guess is that there is and would always be some waste in the real world compared to "by the numbers". Likely cold winter weather would be a key player in that. But I am extremely shocked that the numbers came out as low as they did. Not sure what auto traffic numbers would be yet. My first guess is somewhere between 100% and 200% of the truck numbers.

Again - if I was going to have a preferred outcome, it would be in favor of ICE for sure. And my point in calling the vid out was not to be in favor of batt trucks in any way. But I hate propaganda on either side that is way off base, or a direct lie, and I feel that it needs called out. If you find a person/organization intentionally lieing, what amount of credibility to give to them the next time / ever again?

1 John 4/1:
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.


Please dbl check any and all math and/or info that I used, and please note any corrections.


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[High Voltage]

Not sure if anyone discussed charging efficiency. Best case scenario a EV car charger is 85% efficient and some are as low as 50%. That loss really adds up when you factor thousands of cars. Not to mention that the power grid now being pushed to max limits starts have more line loss with the higher currents being demanded.

 

[Ox]

The one that I linked to (last link in first post) I think was claiming 95%.
But again - from my vantage point it seems that it is actually 170% efficient.

???


I completely agree with the grid already being maxed out - as they keep shutting down coal plants. I have had a V meter on one leg of our power, and on a hot summer afternoon I can watch the V drop out, and it would make one of our older machines unusable 'till evening/morning - now that they closed our local coal plant....

But they are just finishing up a 150 (?) acre solar field about 15 miles from here. That'll charge lots of EV's at night!

Morons can't have it both ways!


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[Hawkster]

Trying to make sense of this just does not compute. CA alone can't handle the slightest bump in the electrical grid.

They have power outages all the time, to them it's no different then a light bulb going out.

I've mentioned this before, up here our power grid is so obsolete that when they tried to sell it they had to give it away after sinking millions into the plant.

That doesn't do crap when an avalanche, flooding, wild fire you name it takes out a complete city.

The buggy has gotten in front of the horse and when it finally crashes people will finally see how insane it is.

The charging of vehicles was busted wide open not so long ago but for some reason people forget.

A battery can only take a full charge for a short period of time, try charging a old battery full charge if you have an ancient charger. You'll cook the battery, now what do you think these high capacity batteries will do ? BOOM

Does that explain trickle charge now in a common sense way.

There is no infrastructure in this country that can handle what is being built.

The buggy is in front of the horse, it just hasn't crashed but people will just shrug it off as to yet another failure and the expense of the people and the profit of the elite.

Because we are to stupid to know any better so they say.

Numbers don't lie , people lie

 

[High Voltage]

Nuclear is the answer!
all of our nuclear plants are probably at least 40 years old or older. If one built state of the art nuclear plants they would be a lot safer than the older plant. Realistically, the old plants are pretty darn safe Chernobyl is probably the exception.

 

[Ox]

3MI?


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[High Voltage]

Well, if you take in consideration how many people died mining coal and from pollutants from the coal stacks, I would say nuclear looks pretty darn safe to me.

 

[Ox]

There was a new plant going up in the Upper Lower (Mich) when 3MI happened. The plant was never finished.
The whole Nuke program was put on hold. Not another plant was built for ??? 30 yrs after that?
So, 20 years later (and ago now) our local plant needed a new reactor core. (Davis Bessey)

So, they went on up to Mich and hooked onto it and drug it home. Purty much plugged up the 4 lanes all down through Mich for a week.
Mrs. O got behind that rig - going ??? 5mph ???? and was fit to be tied. LOL!
Get off at the next exit and brought 2 lanes home.

Will be interesting to see how this new (Fusion?) works out.
Prolly 10-20 yrs down the pike yet I imagine tho.

Be nice when mentioning the pollutants from the stacks tho!
That used to be free fertilizer, but now the farmers have to go to the plants and pick it up and spread it.
(gypsum)

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[High Voltage]

The irony of it all is the stupid attempt of going green by wind and solar. When all the parts are being made, overseas by power plants that don’t even have a scrubber on their coal smokestacks. I believe China is building close to 60 coal fired power plants at this time with No environmental protection on the smokestacks!

 

[Ox]

IDK about wind, but as far as solar goes, I believe that it is basically only the actual "cells" themselves that are imported for the most part. (???)
We have as local outfit here that makes commercial solar field ... stuff ... whatever that would all include IDK.

I have a chum/shop, as well as a customer that both fab a lot of parts for that market.
Like the steel framework and whatnot. Lots of tube work.


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[High Voltage]

Assembled in the USA.

 

[Mafesto]

Every time our electrical provider bumps the percentage of wind power they have to purchase, the price of their electricity increases.
It's simple, they pay more for the power so they in turn must charge more for it.
Every location is different, but I'm here to tell you that in the upper plains, you cannot beat coal, and our air is clear and clean.

 

[Hawkster]

It's the same here, our rates went up also.

What the utility companies don't talk about outside of the board room is that they get a massive kick back ever year from the government.

Bennies

 

[Hawkster]

Biden-backed wind power company cancels New Jersey projects despite $1B in subsidies

They claim the reason is inflation, what inflation.

 

[Hawkster]

The Inflation Reduction Act (IRA), which became law on
August 16, 2022, extends and increases tax credits for wind
energy projects that begin construction prior to January 1, 2025

https://www.energy.gov/sites/default/files/2023-06/weto-wind-funding-taxday-factsheet-june-fy23.pdf