Climate change

[Hawkster]

Who are these people and what are these promises?

President Biden launches rural investment plan in Minnesota

President Joe Biden launched a new rural investment plan in Minnesota Wednesday.

news.yahoo.com

 

[Teth-Air]

It's a wagon in my books
View attachment 410779

SUV's are just a cross between a station wagon and a mini-van. Some lean more one way or the other. It is funny how certain types of vehicles become all the rage and then fall out of favour with the masses because they get sterotyped by the type of vehicle they drive. e.g. soccer moms driving mini-vans. I'm sure the mini-vas was the most practical vehicle for most people, especially with AWD. No I don't drive any of these.

 

[Hawkster]

Volvo V90 Cross Country hybrid wagon, not sure about this exact model but they make everyday wagons that do 150 mph.

Turbocharged 2.0-liter inline-four from the outgoing T6 configuration and enhances it with a 48-volt starter-generator. This drops horsepower from 316 to 295 yet boosts torque from 295 to 310 pound-feet. All-wheel drive remains standard

Now this is how technology works.

What would you expect from Sweden a Volt

diaper boy is a two faced lying pony puppet

 

[Mafesto]

Are we seriously arguing over what can and what cannot be referred to as a station wagon?
We need some fugging snow!

 

[Hawkster]

A little trivia, Do you know who has the patent on the steering wheel?

Ever ask yourself why most steering wheels do not allow you to grip at 9 o-clock and 3 o-clock dead center where you would have the most comfortable grip and control?


It's in the fine print

 

[Hawkster]

Are we seriously arguing over what can and what cannot be referred to as a station wagon?
We need some fugging snow!

It's coming, and if they are getting this right it'll be the 77, 78 winters for you guys.

I parked my Colt SS on top of a chief grain bin and I think if the farmer seen that I probably wouldn't be here today

 

[Ox]

Too funny - I have just been watching a few Blizzard of '78 vids on youtube lately.
We were at the epicenter of the January one that set the record for bottoming out the barometer.

But the next 5 years after that yet were all purty real as well.

The only winters that we have had like that since was 13/14 and 14/15.


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[Ox]

But then when you say "I really don't know how much it takes to charge (two 8000 lb batteries) in a semi."

Do you see that you freely admit to the not understanding the technological details of the video and yet dismiss it as being fake news. Reality check light bulb getting brighter....

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I post this stuff to be thought provoking, but if you want to refute, bring something to the discussion for FS, and rather than do that or any further research you say "fake news"

You dismiss it as "FAKE NEWS" and you, yourself don't know WTF you are talking about! Show me the F'n numbers to back up your position!

I gather you are a farmer, as are most of my solid friends. Maybe my farmer friends have got their spectrum of knowledge grounded in reality better than you.

And bringing in two 15k forklifts to get stuff done indirectly tells me that you are on the right side of all of this, but there is "room" too...



That in totality said, see how division amongst otherwise like-minded people works?

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LOL! What?

Now I KNOW that you edited THIS post!

Two 15K lifts puts me on the right side?
LOL!

???


I did take a bit last night while my ice cream was melting to look up some points in ref to your Fake News post, but it's all on my tablet at home.
I'll try to remember to bring it to the shop tomorrow.

I was a farmer in another life, but for the last 35 years I have been a full time self employed machinist, while still "on the farm".
We just started a rigging opp here today that will hopefully be done by end of Day 3.
One of the 15's seems to be coming up a bit short, and we will likely be needing to add my 8 into the mix as well.
I don't think that I have ever had 3 trucks on one unit before....

That in totality said, see how division amongst otherwise like-minded people works?

We may have done a little fightin' amongst ourselves, but those outside folks better leave us alone!




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[leisureexpress]

Dunno what to say there Sherlock.

I noticed this morning that I put two t's in stuff so I edited sttuff to stuff at 1026am if I remember correctly. (And I do notice this website keeps track of edits in the post field and gives the time of the edit RIGHT THERE!) The entire message and context of my post was unchanged though. Sigh.

And when I mentioned that you were on the right side of all this, my thoughts were that you were not a Leach on society and did productive things. It wasn't that you were a (worthless right sider or a worthless left sider)
Apparently you just can't take a compliment.

I'm ok with that too.

Keep watching CNN I guess. (?)

Ps, this climate change hysteria is still complete bs in my mind even if it is HOT business for some sectors.

 

[Ox]

I didn't catch your last two sentences the first time through.

I don't imagine that many on this site are leaches on society tho.


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[Mafesto]

this climate change hysteria is still complete bs in my mind even if it is HOT business for some sectors.

It's amazing people are still believing that nonsense? I guess some folks truly listen when told what to believe.

 

[leisureexpress]

I don't imagine that many on this site are leaches on society tho.


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Glad to hear that many Politicians don't hang out on this website.

 

[Ox]

It's amazing people are still believing that nonsense? I guess some folks truly listen when told what to believe.

It has seemed to me that the news outlets have been reporting a lot of negative writs re: both Wind as well as Climate Alarmist subjects lately.
At least what I am seeing is prolly at least as many negs as there is still positives. It seems to me that there may be more negs, but I'm not sure if they are just feeding me more of what I click on, or if that is just their mix? I have mentioned this to another fella and he said that he has seen the same trend as well.

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[Ox]

Edited for correct conversion from KW to MW - thanks no less to High Voltage of course! LOL!
Can't believe that I mucked that up that bad!
I asked y'all to check my numbers, so ...


Edit Again 11/7/23:
Got feedback that the KVA consumption for the charger is actually 153 KVA with the correction for 3 phase input that I did get confirmation on.
So the values below would need adjusted up 75%.




By the numbers:


Volvo truck lists their EV class 8 trucks @ 575 kwh batt capacity, and 275 mile range.

It is 270 miles from Los Angeles to Las Vegas.
This would be one of the most popular target routes for a class 8 electric truck at this time that I am aware of.

Let's use $.13/kwh as a commercial "off peak demand" rate for recharging in Vegas.
And we can use $.20 for off peak charging in LA.

335Kwh of grid power consumed to recharge (see PDF link clear at the bottom of post) @ $.13/kwh = $43.50 to recharge truck.
Or $67 in LA.
If diesel powered and @ 6mpg @ $4/gal - that would be $180 in fuel - as a comparison.

*(edited in later) Make note that the diesel fuel would have $20-$25 of road tax included that is not shown on the electric truck consumables cost, that should be added.


50 trucks (let's use the higher of the two volumes that this fella spewed) @ 335kw = 17,000 kw = 17MW.
This is 30% of the 56MW that the guy in the vid said. Also, this is for a 4 hr/truck re-charge. The demand on the grid would be 1/3 if they put it on a 12 hr charge.
Also, if the trucks had bigger batts in them then that would increase range and recharge demand.
This is based off of the standard 575KWH batt that Volvo is marketing.

Las Vegas seems to have a peak load of approximately 5000 Mw on summer load.

An added 17Mw load it'self onto a currently 5000Mw draw would be barely noticeable.
But of course this is only for 50 trucks, and for LV. Put those 50 trucks in a small town, then yes, it will be a bigger pc of the pie for sure!
The key for sure is to not charge everybody at the same time....

This last summer I read in Motor Trend the test results of various EV vehicles, and I tried to compare as best that I could to what the gasoline version of the same vehicle would be. And (of course depending on your local Kwh rate) but it seemed that the cost/mile driven in perishables only - seemed to be about 1/2 of the gasoline counterpart. But again, that could change quickly depending on if I am missing something in the AC/KVA to DC KWH conversion somehow?

Now - I am not saying that if every truck coming through that route was electric that it would not be a noticeable increased load, but we are talking about 30-50 trucks here.


A Mw = one million watts
A Kw = one thousand watts
A Kwh = one thousand watt usage for an hours time.



Links of referance:

VNR Electric I Volvo Trucks USA

The future is now.100% electric. 0% emissions when charged with renewable energy. Manufactured in Dublin, Virginia.

www.volvotrucks.us

The link below suggests more, but other links that I have found would suggest it a little lower, depending on what % LV's power draw is of S Nevada as a whole.
So I am using a smaller number.

Which uses more power: Disney or Las Vegas?

Which uses more electrical power: All of the hotels and attractions on the Las Vegas strip, or all of the hotels and attractions within Walt Disney World in Florida?

ask.metafilter.com

The price of residential electricity is $.18/kwh.
Not sure if Vegas would receive much 3rd shift break on hydro rates or not?

Electricity Cost in Las Vegas, NV: 2024 Electric Rates | EnergySage

How much does electricity cost in Las Vegas, NV? Learn what average electric rates and electric bills looks like in Las Vegas, NV.

www.energysage.com

Electricity Cost in Los Angeles, CA: 2024 Electric Rates | EnergySage

How much does electricity cost in Los Angeles, CA? Learn what average electric rates and electric bills looks like in Los Angeles, CA.

www.energysage.com

How far is Las Vegas from Los Angeles - driving distance

Get a quick answer: It's 270 miles or 435 km from Los Angeles to Las Vegas, which takes about 4 hours, 2 minutes to drive.

www.trippy.com

how much is a mw of electricity - Google Search

I have a hard time believing these numbers, and would ask that someone that understands this stuff a little more to look them over, and to please explain how a unit with a reported efficiency rating of 95% consumes 88.32 kw (184A x 480VAC) and produces 150kw output? the answer must be in the 3 phase input? If we doubled the 88.32, we would then be at 85% efficiency as far as I would understand. ??? Or possibly somehow AC power not rated equal to DC power? IDK. Either way, per the spec sheet, it would take prox 340 kwh AC to recharge a 575 kwh DC battery.

https://www.power-sonic.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/EVDC-150-NA-150kW-DC-Fast-Charger-480VAC.pdf

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[Ox]

To go one step further - while we're here:

Class 8 trucks are reported to drive 150 billion miles/year in the USA.
At 6mpg - that would be 25 billion gallons of diesel fuel.
At $4/gal = $100B

If those miles were all on electric trucks, given the math above:

1.25 kwh / mile driven x 150B miles = 187.5B kwh

Report says that the US generates (consumes?) prox 4300 B KWH's of electricity / year.

By the numbers, it appears that if all the trucks were put on the grid, that it would add <5% to the load.


Again, I would love someone else to verify these numbers if they have that ability. Personally I find these numbers to be much lower than I would ever had guessed, but this is the numbers that I am finding, and not coming from a propaganda output.

3.7 million Class 8 vehicles on U.S. roads in 2021 - Truck News

The U.S. has seen a massive uptick in the number of Classes 1-8 trucks on its roadways, with 169.8 million counted in 2021 – up from 85.1 million in 2002.

www.trucknews.com

Electricity generation, capacity, and sales in the United States - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)

U.S. annual electricity generation and generation capacity by fuel/energy sources and definitions of important electricity terms.

www.eia.gov

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[Ox]

I edited the above post, but I am posting this down here as well since I am sure that Leisure has already read the above post, but of the $180 in diesel fuel, $20-$25 of that would have been hwy use tax, that should be added to the electric trucks costs as well, and will make a 50% difference in the /mile costs.


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[leisureexpress]

It looks like you put a fair amount of research into all that, so that's no small feat.

As far as your numbers not coming from "a propaganda output", the hair stands up on my back knowing full well most internet searches have been tweaked/skewed/and re-written to cater to the climate change hysteria.

That's not directly on you Ox, but a real variable in the info on this topic that is readily available may or may not be politicized by paid scientific researchers, engineers and of course promoted by big tech. I assimilate it to Biden injecting "true story" into one of his senile rants - that's a mental cue that the rest of the story is a lie.

Anyways, I'm heading back from Alabama and will do some looking into weather or not Ox's findings have opposing opinions or not.

As with all new technologies, claims and theories always have a hard time living up to reality.

 

[leisureexpress]

Happy 100th birthday to the electric forklift!!

 

[Hawkster]

 

[Hawkster]

So what happened? Or should I say what powers killed this? The peasants?



If history has anything to teach it's how those in charge feed the sheep.

Maybe some one can fact check this?