Bilers for Obama--Important notice!!

[framus]

First, I guess I was ignorant on the riding area issues. Sounds like Montana, Idaho and Washington are having issues. I ride in Colorado and there are tons of places to ride. There is only one issue I am aware of here and I believe it is a proposed "Wilderness" area designation.

To answer your question on Obama. I like a combo of Obama policies and McCain policies. I do not like either Health Care proposed policies. We should keep Health Care private. I like Obama's tax plan. If the middle class gets a tax break, i know where I spend my extra money. Locally. And 80% of the time to small, local businesses. Boosts local economy. Opponents of this plan say (for one) that if the big corporation do not get that tax break, jobs are lost. I think you could argue either way...

I liked John McCain in 2004 and in 2000. He's simply getting too old. And he picked an absolute moron for a VP. Have you seen the countless clips of him screwing up speeches? How many times did he screw up on the 3rd debate. He does not sound coherent. His cancer worries me. If he had picked a more qualified running mate, I may have been voting for him. (And I don't like Biden either, but he is more qualified to be a VP than Palin)

Finally, there is more at stake this election than snowmobiling. If we don't change and fix Washington and our Government soon, we won't be needing to worry a whole lot about snowmobiling. And I think Obama has the best chance at it.

Ok - there you go - rip away all you right wingers...

"And he picked an absolute moron for a VP."

I suppose an %80 approval rating at home is some kindof abhoration? As soon as they found out who McCain's veep choice was they sent a small heard of reporters up to AK and started digging. I've been around for a while and have never seen the level of hate leveled at a candidate....and if you believe it...even some of it...I pity you. Time to grow up junior. Obama is going to tax you into purgatory, I dont care what he says. In order to pay for even half of what he's promised the numbers just dont add up.

 

[MTN AIR]

I appreciate the response to my questions?? Which leads to more questions.. Based on your comments you actually believe Obama when he says he's going to cut your taxes?? Have you looked into his and Bidens record on that??

Do you realize how much of a tax cut you received this past 8 years on policies that will sunset in the very near future??

W2 wage earners do not realize how much tax they already pay because you don't physically write a check, therefore it is goes unnoticed.

I am not trying to pick at anyone on here that is looking at voting for Obama, I just hope we all have the facts straight when we decide how to cast our votes. I surely do not want a fellow sportsman/powersports enthusiest to just listen to mainstream media for facts. I am here to say that both sides are corrupt. I am also not solely concerned about snowmobiling. Sanctity of Life and economics are also high on my lists.

You say that you do not like Biden, but Palin is worse...Why is that?? Someone that has owned a business and has Govern'd a state doesn't work..We don't like Biden because he is a career politican who has done nothing and has no idea what it is like in the real world, but because Sarah Palin doesn't not sound like one, we think she is stupid??? Help me understand??

I think this is the core problem we have... True leaders in this country are busy running businesses and non-profits, they want nothing to do with this job. Sarah Palin (although inexperienced in Washington) may be the silver lining in this whole mess we call our political system. I don't know how anyone can call a woman who has become Governor of any state by her early 40's stupid.

Ounce again I am not trying to stir the pot... I just want to try and understand how you can favor Democrat over Republican.

Here's hoping for a big SNOWY WINTER!!!!!

 

[COGrizzly]

I appreciate the response to my questions?? Which leads to more questions.. Based on your comments you actually believe Obama when he says he's going to cut your taxes?? Have you looked into his and Bidens record on that??

Do you realize how much of a tax cut you received this past 8 years on policies that will sunset in the very near future??

W2 wage earners do not realize how much tax they already pay because you don't physically write a check, therefore it is goes unnoticed.

I am not trying to pick at anyone on here that is looking at voting for Obama, I just hope we all have the facts straight when we decide how to cast our votes. I surely do not want a fellow sportsman/powersports enthusiest to just listen to mainstream media for facts. I am here to say that both sides are corrupt. I am also not solely concerned about snowmobiling. Sanctity of Life and economics are also high on my lists.

You say that you do not like Biden, but Palin is worse...Why is that?? Someone that has owned a business and has Govern'd a state doesn't work..We don't like Biden because he is a career politican who has done nothing and has no idea what it is like in the real world, but because Sarah Palin doesn't not sound like one, we think she is stupid??? Help me understand??

I think this is the core problem we have... True leaders in this country are busy running businesses and non-profits, they want nothing to do with this job. Sarah Palin (although inexperienced in Washington) may be the silver lining in this whole mess we call our political system. I don't know how anyone can call a woman who has become Governor of any state by her early 40's stupid.

Ounce again I am not trying to stir the pot... I just want to try and understand how you can favor Democrat over Republican.

Here's hoping for a big SNOWY WINTER!!!!!

I guess I was a bit strong on words callin Palin stupid, or whatever I called her. I don't like her for many reasons. Maybe more on that later, but for one, she did not know the role of the VP in regards to Congress. VP is a tie-breaker vote for Congress when needed, and thats about it.

You may have said it best that the best leaders out there are businesspeople and the like wanting nothing to do with the job.

Palin was chosen by McCains advisors because she is very attractive. Voters tend to vote for good looking people when it boils down to it (In a political science class I took in Minneapolis). We discussed it for 2 days in class (7 years ago though) This is, of course just a theory. I do not want "Joe the Sixpack" in the White House. I want and intelligent, yet decisive thinker who will not rush to judgement on any topic and will think it out.

Ah, crap, I gotta go, so much more I'd like to tell you about why I do not like Palin....

 

[framus]

I guess I was a bit strong on words callin Palin stupid, or whatever I called her. I don't like her for many reasons. Maybe more on that later, but for one, she did not know the role of the VP in regards to Congress. VP is a tie-breaker vote for Congress when needed, and thats about it.

You may have said it best that the best leaders out there are businesspeople and the like wanting nothing to do with the job.

Palin was chosen by McCains advisors because she is very attractive. Voters tend to vote for good looking people when it boils down to it (In a political science class I took in Minneapolis). We discussed it for 2 days in class (7 years ago though) This is, of course just a theory. I do not want "Joe the Sixpack" in the White House. I want and intelligent, yet decisive thinker who will not rush to judgement on any topic and will think it out.

Ah, crap, I gotta go, so much more I'd like to tell you about why I do not like Palin....

Yup, that descisive thinker is Obama...Iran is tiny and doesnt pose a threat....no wait! it's a dangerous country with nuclear ambitions. I'll never accept matching political contributions!..wait I need that money. So far he's thrown the rev. Wright, Ayers, Resco, and a handful of others under the bus.Yup thats our decisive thinker!

Just because the lady is good looking doesnt mean she's a airhead. How about we ask some of the Alaskans on this site about the money they got from oil revenues that the big bad oil companies wanted to rat hole and Palin said NO! Or she took her own party on and also said NO!

Once again, how in this day and age can a politician have an %80 approval without there being some substance to it? I didnt know that was even possible.

 

[2001400ex]

I have read this entire thread and have not heard from Obama supporters; Why they are voting for him???

All I have read is what the current admin is doing wrong.. (according to the information they hear on nightly news, newspapers, etc..)

I want to hear what you like about Obama and his plans on leading this country???

Let's see, there was a whole other thread about this, where I could not find why a person would vote for McCain. So here is my list, I want yours:
1. Will reinstate the Clinton tax rate and get the federal deficit under control.
2. While I don't think his health care plan will pass as campaigned on, he will do something to end the 30% increase in my health care a year.
3. He has the easy fix to SS, he will put the tax back in at a lower rate at $250,000 in compensation (right now it cuts out at $102,000).
4. He supports the woman's right to choose.
5. He will actually use diplomacy rather than just go in and kill hundreds of thousands innocent people.
6. He will concentrate our efforts in Afghanistan and Pakistan rather than Iraq.
7. He will NOT increase tax on businesses, and will NOT cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%.
8. He will reinstall consumer confidence that has been missing the entire Bush presidency.
9. He will attempt to reduce pollution, regardless of whether that is the cause of global warming or not.
10. He will ensure all snow is dumped on MT, WY and ID!!!

Your turn.

 

[2001400ex]

Yup, that descisive thinker is Obama...Iran is tiny and doesnt pose a threat....no wait! it's a dangerous country with nuclear ambitions. I'll never accept matching political contributions!..wait I need that money. So far he's thrown the rev. Wright, Ayers, Resco, and a handful of others under the bus.Yup thats our decisive thinker!

Just because the lady is good looking doesnt mean she's a airhead. How about we ask some of the Alaskans on this site about the money they got from oil revenues that the big bad oil companies wanted to rat hole and Palin said NO! Or she took her own party on and also said NO!

Once again, how in this day and age can a politician have an %80 approval without there being some substance to it? I didnt know that was even possible.

7. "As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day?" --Sarah Palin, interview with CNBC's "Kudlow & Co," July 31, 2008 (Watch video clip)

8. "[T]hey're in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family and his classroom." --Sarah Palin, getting the vice president's constitutional role wrong after being asked by a third grader what the vice president does, interview with NBC affiliate KUSA in Colorado, Oct. 21, 2008 (Watch video clip)

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palin-top-10.htm

 

[framus]

7. "As for that VP talk all the time, I'll tell you, I still can't answer that question until somebody answers for me what is it exactly that the VP does every day?" --Sarah Palin, interview with CNBC's "Kudlow & Co," July 31, 2008 (Watch video clip)

8. "[T]hey're in charge of the U.S. Senate so if they want to they can really get in there with the senators and make a lot of good policy changes that will make life better for Brandon and his family and his classroom." --Sarah Palin, getting the vice president's constitutional role wrong after being asked by a third grader what the vice president does, interview with NBC affiliate KUSA in Colorado, Oct. 21, 2008 (Watch video clip)

http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/sarahpalin/a/palin-top-10.htm

If you think she's that retarded more power to ya Bub. You can swallow 2 years of Biden and see how you feel. BTW the Dems have anounced a prelimalry plan ALREADY, one has multi-billion (100-200) dollar pork package and A BAN ON OFFSHORE DRILLING. Yup thats what we need alright.

 

[2001400ex]

If you think she's that retarded more power to ya Bub. You can swallow 2 years of Biden and see how you feel. BTW the Dems have anounced a prelimalry plan ALREADY, one has multi-billion (100-200) dollar pork package and A BAN ON OFFSHORE DRILLING. Yup thats what we need alright.

Exactly, you notice oil and gas prices are back down? And we did not drill one additional drop. I paid 2.19 a gallon yesterday.

You see, we were adding into the national peteroleum reserve from January through June 2008. You notice when oil peaked? July 11. We went from 30 days to 54 or so days. You think that had anything to do with high gas prices? Nah, remember, DRILL! DRILL!

 

[Wade]

Exactly, you notice oil and gas prices are back down? And we did not drill one additional drop. I paid 2.19 a gallon yesterday.

You see, we were adding into the national peteroleum reserve from January through June 2008. You notice when oil peaked? July 11. We went from 30 days to 54 or so days. You think that had anything to do with high gas prices? Nah, remember, DRILL! DRILL!

Obviously, you haven't visited North Dakota lately. Do you understand how the futures market works? When they see you start drilling, the forecast changes the bidding. You might say, an over inflated futures market is an early warning of a Ice Berg dead ahead. You start taking corrective action, you miss the iceberg.

It also might have something to do with supply side economics. Humm, capatailism works so much better then emtional based economics. Aint it great?

 

[2001400ex]

Obviously, you haven't visited North Dakota lately. Do you understand how the futures market works? When they see you start drilling, the forecast changes the bidding. You might say, an over inflated futures market is an early warning of a Ice Berg dead ahead. You start taking corrective action, you miss the iceberg.

It also might have something to do with supply side economics. Humm, capatailism works so much better then emtional based economics. Aint it great?

Explain for all of us what the comment in bold above means and how it is relevant to the discussion of oil prices. I can't wait for this one, because using that Reagan tag line in that context is laughable. No wonder you like Palin.

In case you want support for the above comment of mine about the petroleum reserve, here is the support, from FoxNews:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355256,00.html

And another funny thing, the other day, OPEC reduced supply significantly, and oil still went down. Drilling is not the answer...

 

[JSCC]

Let's see, there was a whole other thread about this, where I could not find why a person would vote for McCain. So here is my list, I want yours:
Here we go again....
1. Will reinstate the Clinton tax rate and get the federal deficit under control.Raising taxes is not the answer to getting the deficit under control. If you quit spending money, you will still have money. So control spending.
2. While I don't think his health care plan will pass as campaigned on, he will do something to end the 30% increase in my health care a year.You honestly have seen an increase of 30% a year? For how many years?
3. He has the easy fix to SS, he will put the tax back in at a lower rate at $250,000 in compensation (right now it cuts out at $102,000). I am ok with this.
4. He supports the woman's right to choose.Again, one reason one should not vote for him.
5. He will actually use diplomacy rather than just go in and kill hundreds of thousands innocent people.Nope, he will just let them come to our country like Billy did and kill us here. He is the prime example of a COWARD!
6. He will concentrate our efforts in Afghanistan and Pakistan rather than Iraq. You honestly think you know anything about this, and it should reflect your vote? Tell me, why would Pakistan be more important to us to invade than Iraq was?
7. He will NOT increase tax on businesses, and will NOT cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%.He WILL increase tax on everyone, just you watch.
8. He will reinstall consumer confidence that has been missing the entire Bush presidency. REALLY, the last 8 years of my life have been the most rewarding. I give a huge THANK YOU to Bush's policy's for this. I spend more than most people, and have done so with complete confidence.
9. He will attempt to reduce pollution, regardless of whether that is the cause of global warming or not. Both candidates will do this.
10. He will ensure all snow is dumped on MT, WY and ID!!! YEP, Yellow snow!

Your turn.

McCain will cut spending.
McCain will lead our National defense in the right direction.
McCain will fight for our children's right to live.
McCain will not increase my taxes.
McCain will stop my government from being a one party system.
Palin will bring small town beliefs back into Washington.
Palin will defend my right to use my public land.
Palin is not a corrupt life long politician.
Palin is for killing unwanted animals.
McCain/Palin are for our right to bear arms.
McCain/Palin are for small business.........I can go on, and on, and on if need be.
However, I am fine with saying you are a left wing liberal, and I a right wing conservative, if it suites your fancy?

 

[framus]

Let's see, there was a whole other thread about this, where I could not find why a person would vote for McCain. So here is my list, I want yours:
1. Will reinstate the Clinton tax rate and get the federal deficit under control.
2. While I don't think his health care plan will pass as campaigned on, he will do something to end the 30% increase in my health care a year.
3. He has the easy fix to SS, he will put the tax back in at a lower rate at $250,000 in compensation (right now it cuts out at $102,000).
4. He supports the woman's right to choose.
5. He will actually use diplomacy rather than just go in and kill hundreds of thousands innocent people.
6. He will concentrate our efforts in Afghanistan and Pakistan rather than Iraq.
7. He will NOT increase tax on businesses, and will NOT cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%.
8. He will reinstall consumer confidence that has been missing the entire Bush presidency.
9. He will attempt to reduce pollution, regardless of whether that is the cause of global warming or not.
10. He will ensure all snow is dumped on MT, WY and ID!!!

Your turn.

Well, lets all hope that CLINTON"S ROADLESS INITIATIVE ONLY PERTAINS TO MT,WY,AND ID. Maybe they'll let ya ride your snowmobile in your yard.


Consumer confidence missing the entire Bush presidency? Ya sure about that one?

 

[Wade]

Explain for all of us what the comment in bold above means and how it is relevant to the discussion of oil prices. I can't wait for this one, because using that Reagan tag line in that context is laughable. No wonder you like Palin.

In case you want support for the above comment of mine about the petroleum reserve, here is the support, from FoxNews:
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,355256,00.html

And another funny thing, the other day, OPEC reduced supply significantly, and oil still went down. Drilling is not the answer...

Supply side, there are drillers, transporters, refiners, and users. If drilling turns up short of oil, even by a little, the price raises a lot. If the refinery can't refine enough to meet demand, even by a little, the price goes up a lot. If tankers get shot up, or pipe lines blown up, the price goes up a lot. If users cut back on usage, even by a little, the price goes down a lot.

We have a four fold problem in this country, limited driller supply. The outlook is bleak. Enemies of our country have strategic control of a sufficient percentage of our crude supply to easily choke us. Enviro wacko's won't let us develop resources here.

The enviro wacko's have made sure no refineries get built, and have introduced environmentally damaging additives, that add nothing but excuses to create limited supply.

The transportation is vulnerable.

Users have a high threshold of pain for gas prices.

We and the entire world cut back usage. The price was ripe for a rapid correction. Strategic supply adds to this, as well as greed.

The other problem is that we've allowed the oil companies to merge together. That needs to be undone.

 

[2001400ex]

My comments in blue.

Supply side, there are drillers, transporters, refiners, and users. If drilling turns up short of oil, even by a little, the price raises a lot. If the refinery can't refine enough to meet demand, even by a little, the price goes up a lot. If tankers get shot up, or pipe lines blown up, the price goes up a lot. If users cut back on usage, even by a little, the price goes down a lot. Oh, because all this time I thought supply side economics had to do with cutting taxes on the wealthy so they would supply jobs and inventory to America, in connection with the trickle-down theory. I guess I should ignore my college professors? What you state above is the law of supply and demand, not supply side economics. And supply and demand have had little to do with the oil problem. Demand started falling in March 2008, and prices did not start falling until July. It is called speculation. Right now, supply is decreasing, and the price is still falling. Both against the "laws".

We have a four fold problem in this country, limited driller supply. The outlook is bleak. Enemies of our country have strategic control of a sufficient percentage of our crude supply to easily choke us. Enviro wacko's won't let us develop resources here. No, there are 68 million acres of leased land not being used. Drill there first!

The enviro wacko's have made sure no refineries get built, and have introduced environmentally damaging additives, that add nothing but excuses to create limited supply. I am glad you listen to Hannity, but refineries have expanded significantly. There has been only one new airport built since the 60's, does that mean our airlines are over capacity? No, because they have added terminals. Same thing.

The transportation is vulnerable.

Users have a high threshold of pain for gas prices. Until this year, miles driven went down in March 2008 for the first time since the 1970s.

We and the entire world cut back usage. The price was ripe for a rapid correction. Strategic supply adds to this, as well as greed. Yes, the world does need to cut down. Oil is going down to $20 a barrel, just watch.

The other problem is that we've allowed the oil companies to merge together. That needs to be undone. Yup, a Republican stable. Why do you think Sirius/XM and Delta/NW rushed to get their mergers done before the election?

One thing you are missing, is oil is priced on the dollar. Now the rest of the world is tanking and our dollar is going back up, making the cost of oil to us go down. Just all part of the puzzle.

Drilling offshore will not fix the problem. Why not start production on hydrogen vehicles? Clinton says they are too expensive and wants electric. But electric charges by gas or by the house (which is mostly coal electricity).

 

[Burndown1]

Hey 2001400ex, Give it up. Go vote Liberal and I will vote conserv. You are nuts. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

 

[MTm7]

My comments in blue.


One thing you are missing, is oil is priced on the dollar. Now the rest of the world is tanking and our dollar is going back up, making the cost of oil to us go down. Just all part of the puzzle.

Drilling offshore will not fix the problem. Why not start production on hydrogen vehicles? Clinton says they are too expensive and wants electric. But electric charges by gas or by the house (which is mostly coal electricity).

you forgot to put IMO on that! because thats all it is. drilling offshore is one step, of many, of fixing the problem. so your statement makes it sound as if drilling is a MISTAKE... no? misleading as usual. another thing, please explain to me trickleUP economics? that ought to be interesting!:rolleyes

 

[MTm7]

Hey 2001400ex, Give it up. Go vote Liberal and I will vote conserv. You are nuts. Liberalism is a mental disorder.

its funny how liberalism comes off as the compassionate and intelligent ones. their whole ideology is self-defeating and a perfect paradigm for tyranny! liberalism is the antithesis to the constitution!

 

[Mooseknuckle]

I have read this entire thread and have not heard from Obama supporters; Why they are voting for him???

All I have read is what the current admin is doing wrong.. (according to the information they hear on nightly news, newspapers, etc..)

I want to hear what you like about Obama and his plans on leading this country???

MTN - Here is the converse and it was partially answered after your post. WTF has Mr. McCain's camp focused on - Mr. Obama's inexperience, liberal voting, Ayers, Wright, - supporters are rehashing Kenya birth, mass homocide, ACORN.

For God's sake, tell me WTF you're going to do about regulations not being enforced (economic, immigration, trade, environment), healthcare vis a vis babyboomers retiring to the system. Management of US Holdings (FS,BLM (why do we still have the helium reserve), USDA Programs (Welfare, Farm Bill, APHIS).

I'm sick of hearing why Mr. Obama is bad. How your platform is better and why. I think we all know how the last time an "old war hero" went after the other guy by running smack turned out.

Let's see, there was a whole other thread about this, where I could not find why a person would vote for McCain. So here is my list, I want yours:
1. Will reinstate the Clinton tax rate and get the federal deficit under control.
Simply reinstating the rates under Mr. Clinton will not control the deficit, without shifting more of the federal programs onto the state and local economies.
2. While I don't think his health care plan will pass as campaigned on, he will do something to end the 30% increase in my health care a year.
3. He has the easy fix to SS, he will put the tax back in at a lower rate at $250,000 in compensation (right now it cuts out at $102,000).
So in my case, I'm under 250K, I'll pay more in SS tax too?
4. He supports the woman's right to choose.
5. He will actually use diplomacy rather than just go in and kill hundreds of thousands innocent people.
I would like to see a source cited on this one. No doubt, combatants as well as innocents have been killed, but that number seem a little suspect.
6. He will concentrate our efforts in Afghanistan and Pakistan rather than Iraq.
On this one, maybe Afganistan, but Pakistan I highly doubt. The Pakis really don't like us futzing around in their business, but they (part of the gov't) need us. During the first days after 9/11 the US had "covert" ops in Afganistan and were in the position to really make a dent in the Taliban leadership and hold it had on central Afgani cities. However, according to some, the Feds wouldn't let the team, working in conjunction with (mujajahdeen (sp?) I think it was) proceed. In the leadership vaccuum that was certain to occur when the Taliban was dispatched, the folks that would conceivably be in power, weren't all that friendly with the Pakis. Washington had a problem with that and held off the attacks until they could cobble together a multi party leadership.
7. He will NOT increase tax on businesses, and will NOT cut the corporate tax rate from 35% to 25%.

8. He will reinstall consumer confidence that has been missing the entire Bush presidency. Sorry, but I think consumer confidence was pretty high durin most of the presidency.
9. He will attempt to reduce pollution, regardless of whether that is the cause of global warming or not.
10. He will ensure all snow is dumped on MT, WY and ID!!!

This I can not agree with you on, you must include "Rural" CA in order for me to co sponsor.

Your turn.

 

[COGrizzly]

its funny how liberalism comes off as the compassionate and intelligent ones. their whole ideology is self-defeating and a perfect paradigm for tyranny! liberalism is the antithesis to the constitution!

You forgot to put IMO on that!

Just kidding around. I think someone said it best for us all to vote dem or rep and be done with it. Let the snow fly.

And in the mean time, I 'm going to do some research on these riding areas closing down and re-join the Blue Ribbon Coalition and other groups that lobby for keeping riding areas open. If anyone has any suggestions or links, that'd be greatly appreciated.

 

[framus]

You forgot to put IMO on that!

Just kidding around. I think someone said it best for us all to vote dem or rep and be done with it. Let the snow fly.

And in the mean time, I 'm going to do some research on these riding areas closing down and re-join the Blue Ribbon Coalition and other groups that lobby for keeping riding areas open. If anyone has any suggestions or links, that'd be greatly appreciated.

It's free. however they do accept contributions.


http://www.snowmobile-alliance.org/