Belt Blower - Opinions needed ASAP!!!

[DonoBBD]

Here is what has worked for me and these secondarys.

Different belts different compounds. Different deflection different off set needed.

Put the rear of the sled in the air. Pull the secondary and all the shims out from behind it. Set your deflection till the track wants to creep at idle. Hit the flipper and spin the secondary and track it will move in then let it free wheel back out and to a near stop and grab some brake and measure from a fixed spot on the secondary to a fix spot on the sled. Do this a few times and make sure you hitting the same number. This number is where you shim to for your off set with that given belt and that deflection. When the belt wears you can still tighten the deflection to track creep and the off set will still be good.

Now I have seen two different secondary's and different top gears for the DDrive. If you have one of these poorly cut secondary's with the back not cut right where it pushes up against the shims you will need to have it trimmed. The inner splines will ramp tight on to the taper of the top gear spline cut and stick the secondary on during this test and will not float out.

The only way a flat lander like me could use a softer belt I had to cut .125" off the back of the secondary and have the center cut .125" deeper to get more off set or tighten up the space between the two fixed sheaves.

The big 1000 turbo's need this cut or the motor moved over. Cat is sending free belts out to most of these sled owners. Dealers are moving all the motors.

I have buffed the helix with my belt a few times with out the stopper but only with a set up with poor back shift and heavy tips. Poor poor polaris belts.

Any how back to the off set free float if you run a different belt compound you will need different off set. The softer belts tend to thin under heavy load then the off set is off. The fixed sheaves need to be closer. A hard A$$ belt like the 036 needs less off set. I like setting deflection to track creep because I can set it up with out changing off set over and over for that belt.

mrquick68,

Trust me and check to see if the clutches are crooked. The top of the secondary out more then the bottom. is your helix pined? are you using the old style helix end cap? Can you spin two back rollers at rest but not the third?

Don.


P.S. Geo I would be interested in knowing more about measureing with the .006 shim. I have never heard of this at all and in my mind (how small it is) it would be setting the belt to be not as pinched between the two fixed sheaves.

 

[mrquick68]

Here is what has worked for me and these secondarys.

Different belts different compounds. Different deflection different off set needed.

Put the rear of the sled in the air. Pull the secondary and all the shims out from behind it. Set your deflection till the track wants to creep at idle. Hit the flipper and spin the secondary and track it will move in then let it free wheel back out and to a near stop and grab some brake and measure from a fixed spot on the secondary to a fix spot on the sled. Do this a few times and make sure you hitting the same number. This number is where you shim to for your off set with that given belt and that deflection. When the belt wears you can still tighten the deflection to track creep and the off set will still be good.

Now I have seen two different secondary's and different top gears for the DDrive. If you have one of these poorly cut secondary's with the back not cut right where it pushes up against the shims you will need to have it trimmed. The inner splines will ramp tight on to the taper of the top gear spline cut and stick the secondary on during this test and will not float out.

The only way a flat lander like me could use a softer belt I had to cut .125" off the back of the secondary and have the center cut .125" deeper to get more off set or tighten up the space between the two fixed sheaves.

The big 1000 turbo's need this cut or the motor moved over. Cat is sending free belts out to most of these sled owners. Dealers are moving all the motors.

I have buffed the helix with my belt a few times with out the stopper but only with a set up with poor back shift and heavy tips. Poor poor polaris belts.

Any how back to the off set free float if you run a different belt compound you will need different off set. The softer belts tend to thin under heavy load then the off set is off. The fixed sheaves need to be closer. A hard A$$ belt like the 036 needs less off set. I like setting deflection to track creep because I can set it up with out changing off set over and over for that belt.

mrquick68,

Trust me and check to see if the clutches are crooked. The top of the secondary out more then the bottom. is your helix pined? are you using the old style helix end cap? Can you spin two back rollers at rest but not the third?

Don.


P.S. Geo I would be interested in knowing more about measureing with the .006 shim. I have never heard of this at all and in my mind (how small it is) it would be setting the belt to be not as pinched between the two fixed sheaves.

I will check this all tonight. My helix is 9 bolt helix, no pins... i'll check for the "crooked" secondary/DD too.

 

[DonoBBD]

The very first secondary like this for the 04 T660 had the helix pined with three 3/16th dowel pins and this centered the helix with the inner bearing thus centering the outer bearing together. As the movable bearing wears and the outer end cap flexes things start to bind and it don't take much. This all starts around 3000 miles.

A new secondary will fix this but if you do a re bearing on the inner sheave pin the helix and run high torque rollers it all gos away.

Don.

 

[Killerk]

There might be a combination of issues for everyone... my primary doesn't wobble at idle!

The imperfections in my primary clutch were located on both sides on the inside sheaves where the belt sits at idle. Under WOT when the clutch closes check the top of your primary sheaves for any imperfections also. Sorry I don't have any pics before I did this. I had a long file and cleaned the clutches up while idling that way it would be symmetrical, if your clutch wobbles I probably wouldn't try this!

Has anyone else done this? I got the idea from others in my area and figured it was worth a try! blowing belts and cutting cords wrapped around my clutches really ticks me off.

I should mention that I also shimmed my secondary "in" from factory as well.

This is confusing to me
The sheeves are machined, so if there were casting flaws, they would be machined off unless the flaws were so bad they didn't clean up after machining?
My primary has a slight groove in the bottom, probably from too tight of deflection, (was not there when new) but my sled has not been a belt eater.

 

[geo]

No offence DonoBBD, but it is really just as simple as using the factory specs and factory belt to make it work right. AC has corrected some of the issues with the secondary since '05 but .... happens.

"Floating" your clutch with a tight deflection is a hit and miss way that usually misses. The secondary needs to be torqued into the bearing to be square to the shaft. Check your paralellism with the secondary torqued or not torqued. Two different readings. The clutch will simply rattle itself to a stop where ever friction dictates.
The feelergauge is simply to make sure you have minimal clearance between the stationary sheave on the primary and the belt. You do need some clearance and it has to be done after you have the PROPER deflection. Once your belt coming off the torqued up secondary is centered properly in the primary that's as aligned as your gonna get. If your squealing your not aligned. It has nothing to do with too tight a deflection 'cause the tighter the belt the further up the secondary it rides and the further away from the primary stationary sheave it sits. It won't squeal off the steel shaft.
Not trying to complicate things. It's just a easy way to check if your close enough on your alignment. The factory tool works most of the time but I've seen some huge differences on the secondary castings and where they measure from of the secondary makes me wonder if it is correct all the time.

My belts get "pinched" by my weights and helix. They don't need any extra help, thank you Dono.

Adding a torque stop from the M7 might be a good idea but, if I remember right it needed to have about .120" clearance to not erase itself in a couple of hundred miles which is a lot of movement by the time it gets over to the clutch side of the motor anyway. And, I remember a different motor mount set-up on the mag side back then. Pretty soft rubber too. Might be worth a try though.

Geo

 

[mrquick68]

FYI - clutches are NOT crooked per Dono's guess. the match perfectly... just thought i'd share and strick that off the list of possible issues.

 

[DonoBBD]

Now I see Geo. In your post you miss typed that you needed .006 between the fixed sheave of the secondary. This is what through me. You really meant the fixed sheave of the primary motor side. Makes total sense to me.

Cheers Don.

Mr Quick can you post a picture of your sheaves? Most of the time I can tell what is up with looking at the sheaves. You can see where it is slipping and so one to help find some grip.

 

[mrquick68]

Now I see Geo. In your post you miss typed that you needed .006 between the fixed sheave of the secondary. This is what through me. You really meant the fixed sheave of the primary motor side. Makes total sense to me.

Cheers Don.

Mr Quick can you post a picture of your sheaves? Most of the time I can tell what is up with looking at the sheaves. You can see where it is slipping and so one to help find some grip.

i don't have any pics handy... but i can tell you its slipping at about 50mph at WOT throttle in climb. Leaves nice black marks on the primary's moveable sheeve... especially big black marks when i tried the orange/wht spring.

 

[DonoBBD]

Any chance that one of the set screws on your weights has come out and the weight has slid over? This will hang the primary or stop the shift and loose the belt pinch. It sound simple but I have seen this too.

Don.

 

[mrquick68]

Any chance that one of the set screws on your weights has come out and the weight has slid over? This will hang the primary or stop the shift and loose the belt pinch. It sound simple but I have seen this too.

Don.

i wish that's what it was - but no. they are all perfect and checked regularly...

 

[winter brew]

I'm still going with those darned light tip Cat weights....not enough pinch to match the secondary, big torque and a big track. ???

 

[KMMAC]

I'm still thinking that the springs may be too stiff. Quickie, earlier in a post of yours you said that with too much deflection that your drive clutch would bang when it hit engagement. Could that happen with too stiff of spring and too light of weight? Just wonderin...

 

[DonoBBD]

I'm still going with those darned light tip Cat weights....not enough pinch to match the secondary, big torque and a big track. ???

Could very well be. I have had better luck the full tip weights but have had to make room for the primary spring to grow.


The bang you talk about for me is to loose of a deflection or worn rollers in the primary. If your roller to weight is stock at .006 and belt to sheave at .070 it should not bang.

You have to post a picture of your sheaves in the primary and the roller marks on your weights. You can tell allot by how parts are wearing.

Don.

 

[mrquick68]

sled only 500 miles on it... went back and doubled checked the rollers a few weeks back and they were nice and tight. I'll try and get some pics up of the parts, but i'm off to whistler for 4 days. Bringing a bunch of belts and parts...

 

[geo]

AC has a nice spring to throw in your trunk (purple) and check if you want more tip weight.

Really good at telling you which clutch is controlling your rpm too.

Geo

 

[mrquick68]

Interesting - it seems that torsional kits benefit from heavier tip weights while compression springs seem to benefit from heavier heeled setups...

Is there merit to this?

 

[smokin800]

Have you got the belt problem fixed. If not give me a call and I will tell you what you have to do to fix the problem. Travis 435 225 6333

 

[DonoBBD]

Interesting - it seems that torsional kits benefit from heavier tip weights while compression springs seem to benefit from heavier heeled setups...

Is there merit to this?

Do you see that picture of the weights above? The weights on the left are cat 72's the middle set are dalton 72's with more tip weight. See how much more they are shifting? The only change was the weights.

The weights on the far right are prototype weights that will be for sale the fall of 09. They pull like a mo fo. They are only 68 grams total and you can see how much more they are shifting the 8.5" and these then have a D&D green primary spring that is 195/295 and they engage on my 600 at 4500rpm's. Ya I know that blew my mine only 4500 rpm's with that spring. There is enough heal weight so they back shift well too.


The torsion set up I played with down low here I could not get a heavy enough spring to make it work. So to me the only way is to run more heal weight and less tip. Don't get me wrong the torsion set up back shifts great but could never get it to work well.

Don.

 

[1Mike900]

Are you sure the problems are not coming from the track? What if it was too tight and when the suspension compresses could it start to bind and create heat on the hyfax even though the water is it's lubricant, Which is not very good when heated? Geo and others I would like your thoughts. I have a funny feeling it is the design of the skid with the every other track clip. Do these tracks tighten when compressed, Or do they have the geometry right in the skid that it maintains same tension?

Mike

 

[mrquick68]

Are you sure the problems are not coming from the track? What if it was too tight and when the suspension compresses could it start to bind and create heat on the hyfax even though the water is it's lubricant, Which is not very good when heated? Geo and others I would like your thoughts. I have a funny feeling it is the design of the skid with the every other track clip. Do these tracks tighten when compressed, Or do they have the geometry right in the skid that it maintains same tension?

Mike

if anything my track is too loose. definitely NOT the problem.