Interesting note found on speedwerks website. Under their tech center in testing info. they are ADVISING b4 you ride your sled again to check paralellism and offset and the interesting part the belt kept pulling/slipping down into secondary, so they used 80grit sandpaper to keep it out, wouldn't a stiffer secondary spring do the same thing? To keep it from slipping, I had one ride on my HCR with a little stiffer secondary spring with 44/40 and heavy weights and i was amazed at tight slow trail speeds the belt was cold seriously primary was very cool to mid 60's if i remember. highest I saw while hillclimbing with infared 190 but was mostly 170 degrees on real small hills with orange spring, more hill checking with new spring soon. One thing for sure is I can feel much less slip as in acceleration/shifting going uphill. Are Cutlers and Daltons adjustables the same profile? My cutlers are same shape as cat's 77's. But I as geo stated can't seem to bring the rrr's down but the uphill speed does just increase, on one hill slowly adding weight went from 55-57-60-62. Next is to check for heat.
Belt Blower - Opinions needed ASAP!!!
- Thread starter mrquick68
- Start date
what do you think would happen if you took some 1/4" aluminum and basically fish plated the motor mounts so they where solid. or just bolt straight to the motor mount and get some hard rubber and make a second mount to stiffen it up. seems to me even if you could turn the diamond on the motor mount horizontal it would help keep the clutches from pulling together and still dampen vibration.
Put the motor stop from the M7 on the front Mag side. Also, add a 2nd motor mount to the front PTO side (takes a little modification). By adding the motor stop, the belt life is improved and vibration is decreased alot.
Good luck!!
Good luck!!
W
Wood
Well-known member
0608-405 is for the single mounts from the 440 SP. They are a softer compound but a solid design, not perforated like the stock mounts. You don't need to buy the complete mounting plate.
Be sure to check parallelism. Mine was off on my CF and I had to crank down my torque stop a LOT to get it back into spec. Don't be afraid to really tighten down your torque stops. The stock mounts allow for a lot of motor flex and the TS is very soft which allows the clutches to pull out of alignment under load.
Ideally, you want some positive parallelism (motor cocked clockwise a bit) so that the primary 'pulls' into alignment when your on the gas.
I wish I could tell you on the 09 800s but the sled is 150 miles away.
The 08 800 vibrated like crazy and I'm going with Geo's therory on belt slippage.
The 08 mounts were
Front and bottom = horizontal
Top diamond was vertical.
The 09 800 has a lot more torque and should be pulling the motor even more.
Does someone have a 09 800 close by to look at?
That makes sense. Just wondering how far to crank the motor.
W
Wood
Well-known member
Survey says about .060 (60 thou) positive offset. Best is to measure with a long straight edge and use the back clutch as your reference. So you should have approx 60 thou more offset at the back of the secondary vs the front of the secondary. Ideally it is supposed to be 60 thou difference on the front clutch so with the larger diameter back clutch, your offset will be more as the distance will be greater.
I could not pull my motor over far enough with the stock motor mount locations. I could get it to zero offset but no more so I left it there. I would need to at least move the MAG side motor plate to allow for more offset/parallelism but have not bothered as my cord pulling issues have subsided.
Another thing that was strange. I have lost 5 Y pipe exhaust springs in the last two seasons. No big deal, but . . . They have always been the top PTO side off the motor. Never lost any of the other springs in 6,000 miles.
W
Wood
Well-known member
There's your sign bud. Other than belt issues, another great sign of motor mount/torque stop issues is busted exhaust springs....especially on the PTO side. Been there, done that....
Funny thing is I was breaking springs like crazy before the motor stop, since then I have not broke anymore springs!!
i've broken that same spring too! i've since adjusted the spring tab and no more broken springs though i know my motor is flexing huge.
I got your PM quick, and I will check my motor mounts as soon as I get a chance.
I left my sled in my dads trailer.
I pulled the cords on my belt yesterday... Same belt all year other than first 2 rides... Probably 500-700 miles. "Tach won't reset or change to odometer".
Sled performed fine, but when we stopped for lunch I noticed all the string... Pretty even wear.
What surprised me is I lost some RPM with the new belt
I left my sled in my dads trailer.
I pulled the cords on my belt yesterday... Same belt all year other than first 2 rides... Probably 500-700 miles. "Tach won't reset or change to odometer".
Sled performed fine, but when we stopped for lunch I noticed all the string... Pretty even wear.
What surprised me is I lost some RPM with the new belt
Here is the motor stop that has been talked about.
Thanks for the picture!!
D
Dale Hastings
New member
Don,t know jack about puters and typing, but I own a 09 m1000. Mr Quick have you tried the heavier tip weights yet? This should increase belt squeeze on mid and top. Hopefuly decreasing drive clutch belt slip and heat. Being careful not to use to stiff of driven spring. Also, around my area these sleds have better track speed with heavy weights and straight shallow helixes, as opposed to light weights and fancy multi angle ones (that is mountain riding 4000 to 8000 feet). This is slightly going away from the belt heat thread poping problem though. Comments appreciated.
C
Cat Bandit
Well-known member
ok, here is a deal I've been encountering... the rubber torque stop wears out really fast and needs to be replaced about every five hundred miles on a stock m8. you have more power than the 140 the m8 puts out, you'll have to replace it more often... Also, you can take a piece of 1/4 inch square key stock long enough to go between the two shafts(crank and diamond drive input) and open the secondary and set it in and let the clutch close on it. Measure the distance with calipers between the front of the primary, and the back of the primary. The distance in the front should be .040" to .060" greater than in the back. That will let you achieve the correct alignment when under power. Also, the arctic cat dealer in Walla Walla ( http://www.usahonda.com/ ) has made an engine mount plate for the pto side to move it forward .010" to further help with the issue. He reccomends it for sleds over 160 hp. Hope this helps guys!
just an FYI - rode a DEEP heavier spring storm snow yesterday and had a great ride!
for giggles i changed only one thing on the sled - i install cutler adjables.
i kept the same helix (42/36 progressive), same stock orange spring, plus shift assist and the ylw/wht primary spring.
I weighed my stock weights again just to make sure i was right on with the weight. tell turns out they were at 79.0g each, a gram taken off each heel (they started at 80g). these are cat light tips.
So, i loaded the CPCs to 77.0g's each - but i made a grave mistake. I totally load the tip and forgot that to unload the tip they weight have to come all the way out. Stupid move on my part...
here' the fun part though - i still never pulled a cord and my clutches temps weren't terrible. Backshift was plenty fast and because of my stupid tip load move, my only other choice was to try different heel load configurations.
I tried 'em at 77g fully tip loaded. a little revvy off the bottom, but pulled really hard on the trail! ha ha - rpms on the hill though were down still at 7400 rpms and then krept up as heat/slip generated in the primary...
Since i couldn't pull tip weight i tried ADDING heel weight first (hey, why not?) - and kept the same rpms, just more aggressive shift off the bottom.
Then i pulled a big chunk of weight off the heel which basically made the weight like running a heavier tip 75.6g profile. I gained a little rpm (7500) BUT my secondary was STILL slipping (then the r's started creepin up and mph started going down), it backshift fine on big hits to the track still, but i still kept over powering the secondary with the heavy tips. this setup would likely work well with the a torsional secondary though. maybe even a little less weight overall actually.
Still pissed that i couldn't pull the tip weight off. Such a dumb move on my part. I could've pulled the weights out, but the riding was killer and i didn't want to slow my group up with a full clutch tear down or loose a set screw and be totally screwed...
All this being said - no XP in my group could out climb me AND i didn't pull strings on my belt - even though i was slipping my secondary and down on rpms by a few hundred.
I honestly like the way 38/36 progressive Torsional kit shifts better than my current 42/36 progressive compression setup.
for giggles i changed only one thing on the sled - i install cutler adjables.
i kept the same helix (42/36 progressive), same stock orange spring, plus shift assist and the ylw/wht primary spring.
I weighed my stock weights again just to make sure i was right on with the weight. tell turns out they were at 79.0g each, a gram taken off each heel (they started at 80g). these are cat light tips.
So, i loaded the CPCs to 77.0g's each - but i made a grave mistake. I totally load the tip and forgot that to unload the tip they weight have to come all the way out. Stupid move on my part...
here' the fun part though - i still never pulled a cord and my clutches temps weren't terrible. Backshift was plenty fast and because of my stupid tip load move, my only other choice was to try different heel load configurations.
I tried 'em at 77g fully tip loaded. a little revvy off the bottom, but pulled really hard on the trail! ha ha - rpms on the hill though were down still at 7400 rpms and then krept up as heat/slip generated in the primary...
Since i couldn't pull tip weight i tried ADDING heel weight first (hey, why not?) - and kept the same rpms, just more aggressive shift off the bottom.
Then i pulled a big chunk of weight off the heel which basically made the weight like running a heavier tip 75.6g profile. I gained a little rpm (7500) BUT my secondary was STILL slipping (then the r's started creepin up and mph started going down), it backshift fine on big hits to the track still, but i still kept over powering the secondary with the heavy tips. this setup would likely work well with the a torsional secondary though. maybe even a little less weight overall actually.
Still pissed that i couldn't pull the tip weight off. Such a dumb move on my part. I could've pulled the weights out, but the riding was killer and i didn't want to slow my group up with a full clutch tear down or loose a set screw and be totally screwed...
All this being said - no XP in my group could out climb me AND i didn't pull strings on my belt - even though i was slipping my secondary and down on rpms by a few hundred.
I honestly like the way 38/36 progressive Torsional kit shifts better than my current 42/36 progressive compression setup.
Quick:
Have you tried that 42/36 with torsional spring?
Have you tried that 42/36 with torsional spring?
