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Belt Blower - Opinions needed ASAP!!!

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Interesting - it seems that torsional kits benefit from heavier tip weights while compression springs seem to benefit from heavier heeled setups...

Is there merit to this?

Completely opposite in my experience....you can't pull through the big compression springs with light tip weights....might be a good setup if you forget your Hotdogger.....A couple pulls with the light tips and it should be no problem to fry up a couple wieners right on your primary. Bring extra belts......
 
UPDATE -

reclutched my sled with a compression setup just to try starting from scratch. STILL blow belts. I tried shimming the clutch out, paying super close attention to deflection, tried a 39/35 progressive M7 style helix w/ the orange secondary spring and shift assist. Actually liked it BETTER than the RKT kit overall and kept the SAME track speeds, if not better. Hmmm. I believe i can pull more helix as well, thinking maybe i should try a 42/37 progressive and then try dropping the weight down a bit in the primary.

Rpms in 4ft of POW at 6000ft were 7600. so, for this setup just about perfect - if only it would stop slipping and pulling threads.
 
If you are pulling the outside cord move the secondary in. Im down to 1 1/2 washers and not pulling threads!! and thats with a turbo which makes matters worse. Now I want to try this heavy tip thing.
 
i've had a similar issue with my m7, pulled outside string on a belt or two, have blown the outside cogs off a few, and primary is always hotter. i believe a big part of the problem is the stiff secondary springs. i've played with many clutch setups on my sled including primary springs from as soft as the cat gold to some of the stiffer SLP springs, have adjusted my cutlers from 60g. to about 68 g. (stock is 67 on my carbed m7) and a few springs in the secondary including a torsional kit. for a while i ran the m8 orange spring and figured it was about as good as it was gonna get, but with that spring was when i had all the belt issues. i had awesome fast backshift but upshift wasnt the quickest and it felt like the sec. was holding it back. then i found some sec. springs from speedworks that had a softer starting rate but a close second rate to the orange to keep the backshift quick. i ended up buying there black orange spring with 140/270 rates vs. the 175/280 of the cat orange and even though i've got very limited time on it so far i think it feels much better, gets up and moves alot quicker and smoother but still backshifts. only time will tell on the belts but by feel my clutches seem to feel quite a bit cooler.

i know this is a whole different sled than the 1000 but might be something worth trying or lookin into.
 
i've had a similar issue with my m7, pulled outside string on a belt or two, have blown the outside cogs off a few, and primary is always hotter. i believe a big part of the problem is the stiff secondary springs. i've played with many clutch setups on my sled including primary springs from as soft as the cat gold to some of the stiffer SLP springs, have adjusted my cutlers from 60g. to about 68 g. (stock is 67 on my carbed m7) and a few springs in the secondary including a torsional kit. for a while i ran the m8 orange spring and figured it was about as good as it was gonna get, but with that spring was when i had all the belt issues. i had awesome fast backshift but upshift wasnt the quickest and it felt like the sec. was holding it back. then i found some sec. springs from speedworks that had a softer starting rate but a close second rate to the orange to keep the backshift quick. i ended up buying there black orange spring with 140/270 rates vs. the 175/280 of the cat orange and even though i've got very limited time on it so far i think it feels much better, gets up and moves alot quicker and smoother but still backshifts. only time will tell on the belts but by feel my clutches seem to feel quite a bit cooler.

i know this is a whole different sled than the 1000 but might be something worth trying or lookin into.

that's about the same spring rates of AC green spring which i tried in the past and never liked... think about this too - if it finishes the same, and that's where its slipping - then i don't think that's the problem... i agree its good to think about though.
 
If you are pulling the outside cord move the secondary in. Im down to 1 1/2 washers and not pulling threads!! and thats with a turbo which makes matters worse. Now I want to try this heavy tip thing.

DO the 09's not have washers???? I don't see any or i'd try this.....
 
mine didn't, sit in a bit farther than the primary but the cords I have pulled are on both sides.
 
FYI - something to think about here and maybe i proved something to myself (and others) this week in my riding... I always pulled the outside threads on my belts until THIS week. I put in a new belt and road her easy for 10+ miles. Then i was in the DEEP and had no choice but to pin-it to win-it. only change this time was that i added .060 shim behind the clutch instead of the .030 that i had from before. I ended up pulling threads on the INSIDE when i moved the secondary OUT. This is the exact opposite of what i thought would happen.

Things seemed best or just about right with .030 on a used belt and nothing on a new belt - though i still smoked 'em all...
 
that's about the same spring rates of AC green spring which i tried in the past and never liked... think about this too - if it finishes the same, and that's where its slipping - then i don't think that's the problem... i agree its good to think about though.

good point, maybe a spring with a fairly stiff first rate and a softer second rate could help. like the couple i seen in the HPE catalog like the thunder shift blue/white (155-245) or team green/white (155-240). i know i've read of others wondering about this type of spring.

maybe you need to find a shim in between the .060 and the .030 if one pulls strings on one side and the other pulls strings on the other side. i don't know im just tryin to throw some ideas out there.
 
Green Spring

Everything I looked at showed the green AC driven spring to be 110/290 which I think would be worse than both the white and the orange spring. I am with Vern on trying something in the 140/270 or 150/260 range.
 
belt blower

I have not read the whole thread so excuse me if this has already been said..I went through three oem belts in short order on my dakota performance 800cc m7. I changed the two motor mounts on the pto side to the much stiffer race chassis mounts. Jeff @ dakota hooked me up. I also switched to the carlisle ultimax xs 805 belt. The only bad thing about the xs belt is that you have to drop 2 grams/cam arm because it grips the pulleys so much better. I dont know if the mounts alone would have solved the problem, but I can say that I have rode hard for two full seasons and have had a cool belt the whole time. Anyway, the rest of my setup is as follows: SLP primary shim kit (engages smoother), OVS secondary (torsional spring setup) stock helix with what I think is a grey D&D spring. The last items were on the machine when I was having problems keeping a belt on it. Hope this helps, Skid
 
UPDATE!


So today was the first time EVER i've not pulled cord while riding with a brand new belt... i made just a few changes and overall the clutching doesn't feel quite as good as before BUT my rpms are down too.

CHANGES - all i did this week was change my helix - went from a 39/35 progressive to a 42/36 progressive. i wanted to try a bigger helix and see if kept my backshift and what other changes i could notice. Backshift was a quick as ever (meaning i like it) and heat actually seemed DOWN over the RKT kit and the 39/35 helix with compression spring.

I set my deflection per the book and i every time i came back to adding a .030" shim (well for me it was actually two .060 shims PLUS the .030 as i cut a .120 off already to give me the option of running it in...)

I also tried the stiffer the SLP spring and hung worse than the AC spring and i didn't like how shifted... went back to the trust ylw/wht steel and still like it best so far.

My only complaint with this setup is that i know my weights are too heavy still. I'll be ordering up some CPC adjustables here soon as i need the option run less weight...

For now though - AT LEAST I DIDN'T RUIN a belt!!!
 
Interesting Mr. Q I just ordered a helix with a 42 start rate, everything seems to keep leaning that way. Now Im really looking forward to trying it out!!
 
i found this thread in another section... i think someone is on to something with the stiffer motor mounts, additional motor mount, etc...

http://snowest.com/forum/showthread.php?t=114377

all this to say that stiffer motor mounts will only help solve a belt issue if your clutching is properly setup AND your alignment and deflection is correctly set.

I'm doing some more research about why some sleds DO have this issue and some DON'T. I won't post it until i've confirmed the information though...

stay tuned... :cool:
 
i alsow have a belt blowing 1000 cc. but this is a crossfire. (-09)

today i compared the motormounts to a cf 800
the front mount on the 1000 is solid and the 2 on the back of the motor have
airholes in them for less vibration.

the 800 uses the model whit airholes on all tre mounts. BUT

the lower mount on the back of the motor on the 800 was turned 90 degrees compared to the one on my 1000

can this be a reason why some sleds blow belts and others dont?

P1010130.jpg


notice the diamondshape under the bolt on the two rear mounts.
they ar both pointing vertical. on the 800 the lower mount pointed horisontal.

can anybody check on a 1000 that dont blow belts in whitch way the diamonds in the mounts is pointing.

i have asked my dealer if i posibly can buy the solid model mount that sits in the front. but the ac partnumber seams to be for the entire bracket whit all tre mounts. does anybody know if ther is a way to buy thes separate?
 
i alsow have a belt blowing 1000 cc. but this is a crossfire. (-09)

today i compared the motormounts to a cf 800
the front mount on the 1000 is solid and the 2 on the back of the motor have
airholes in them for less vibration.

the 800 uses the model whit airholes on all tre mounts. BUT



notice the diamondshape under the bolt on the two rear mounts.
they ar both pointing vertical. on the 800 the lower mount pointed horisontal.

can anybody check on a 1000 that dont blow belts in whitch way the diamonds in the mounts is pointing.

i have asked my dealer if i posibly can buy the solid model mount that sits in the front. but the ac partnumber seams to be for the entire bracket whit all tre mounts. does anybody know if ther is a way to buy thes separate?

I have the 800 and I looked at those holes the last time the belt blew. You could see that the motor had moved by the way the holes had stretched. Strange thing is that a check the next morning and they were back to normal. That is part of the reason I wondered about putting a camera in there to see how much the motor is moving.
 
I have the 800 and I looked at those holes the last time the belt blew. You could see that the motor had moved by the way the holes had stretched. Strange thing is that a check the next morning and they were back to normal. That is part of the reason I wondered about putting a camera in there to see how much the motor is moving.

which way were the mounts on the 800???
 
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