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550 fan Jetting and burn-down issues....

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Hi Guys,

New to these parts,,, Actually I'm a New Endlander who stumbled across this thread after seeing some postings on a local snowmobile club site about problems with Polaris 550's

I bought a 2006 550 Classic as a backup sled because Polaris listed it as a "bulletproof" motor and would be powerful enough to ride should I need it, but not so fast that I would have to worry about my wife or any friend who might come for a ride.

Now I have not had any problems yet, but it only has 300 miles on it and after reading all the posts all over the Internet I'm concerned,,,

Neither Polaris nor the dealer has contacted me to say that there are recalls, updates, or concerns about how you use it, and now its out of warranty,,,

I’m most impressed with the postings by Tom400CFI, it looks like you have really been put through the ringer on this one.

As a reader, I really appreciate your efforts in sharing you experiences and observations.

As an owner, I’m trying to learn from your experiences,,, Trying being the key word.

Until, I can come up with a game plan, my 550 is parked.

Until now mine has only been ridden by two people (both seasoned male riders) and on New Hampshire trails which are at low altitude and are usually twisty with few straight long sections, so our riding tends to be varied in speed and were constantly on and off the throttle, hence my not having any problems with my 550 yet.

My game plan so far is to check with the dealer that I bought it from and see if they will pony up any of the updates, I know its not likely as its not broken yet, but as I have bought 5 sleds brand new from Polaris in the last 10 years I think its worth trying.

If not, I’m thinking that the oil pump kit seems like a must have, and then either add the exhaust shields or have the whole exhaust coated with one of the high-tech coatings.

Next, add some kind of cool air duct system.

The Polaris system still looks insufficient given what I have read, so I’m thinking of a hybrid possibly using the Polaris duct over the fan shroud, and then fabricating something like Tom400CFI did to the front cowl opening by either modifying an HVAC “stack dump” or possibly a large wet-vac nozzle, or maybe just molding something in fiberglass.

I really like Tom400CFI’s use of the cowl opening, it looks like a perfect source of cool air and of sufficient volume to get the job done (unlike the tiny Polaris vent you have to cut into the top of the cowl.

I do have a couple concerns, first I have seen several posts that talk about a fuel pump relocation and an updated CDI. Can anyone tell me what changed on the CDI and what the part number of the updated one is? And can anyone post a picture of the fuel pump relocation.

I also I'm seeing several different update kits talked about, is there a new number that anyone can post that lists the most current “master” kit for the cyl – CDI – exhaust – oil pump – etc.

And can someone post the part number for the cool air vent “kit” ???

Sorry for the long post that added nothing of value to the issue and THANKS in advance for any advice and info that you folks can pass along.

George
 
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i think polaris took their r&d money and invested it in the three major beer companies. they heard that pi$$ed off people drink more than happy people and so made this move to bolster profits!
 
I do have a couple concerns, first I have seen several posts that talk about a fuel pump relocation and an updated CDI. Can anyone tell me what changed on the CDI and what the part number of the updated one is? And can anyone post a picture of the fuel pump relocation.

I also I'm seeing several different update kits talked about, is there a new number that anyone can post that lists the most current “master” kit for the cyl – CDI – exhaust – oil pump – etc.

And can someone post the part number for the cool air vent “kit” ???

The CDI basically changed timing CURVES a little through the years. I'm aware of this, but haven't been concerned w/that b/c of ALL the problems that we've had, almost none of them have been from detonation. That tells me that changing ignition timing (anywhere in the RPM range) won't help our situation.

I can't help you w/the P/N's because I'm not interested in PAYING Polaris for these items; we'll build the ducting, etc ourselves.
 
That tells me that changing ignition timing (anywhere in the RPM range) won't help our situation.

I'd think lowering timing also would put less heat in the combustion chamber (and make less power), and put more heat in the pipe. Which may or may not make a difference in your case.
 
The CDI basically changed timing CURVES a little through the years. I'm aware of this, but haven't been concerned w/that b/c of ALL the problems that we've had, almost none of them have been from detonation. That tells me that changing ignition timing (anywhere in the RPM range) won't help our situation.

I can't help you w/the P/N's because I'm not interested in PAYING Polaris for these items; we'll build the ducting, etc ourselves.

Your 2006 would use the same engine kit mine did, which is 2203299.

It is called "Nicasil Update kit", and includes cylinders, pistons, rings, clips, small end bearings, gaskets, and oil pump kit, exhaust shields, fuel pump relocation kit, and a new cdi. The new cdi part number is 3089939.

Now, if you put all this stuff on, then go and get the engine cooling kit, the fuel pump bracket changes, because the 1st updated one won't fit over the new intake shroud. The cooling kit comes with the new bracket. Basically it takes the fuel pump from where it is now (mounted to the back of the oil tank/tool kit housing), and puts it out on two mounting screws through the fan housing, on an aluminum bracket. You have to take the fuel pump apart and turn the top half 180 degrees to the bottom half. This is to make it take the rerouting of the fuel inlet, impulse and carb inlet lines. With an '04 or '05, you will need to buy a new fuel pump...it isn't the same.

Polaris is continually changing these "kits" and their contents. I would check with your dealer to see what is the latest and greatest. If you are doing the work yourself, plan on 10-12 hours to do all of it, at least. My engine had burned down prior, so I split the crankcase to clean everything.

Isn't this all just great?
 
Thanks for the responses guys.

As expected the dealer said there are no recalls and no bulletins on my sled. Guess it has to blow up before it triggers any notifications,,,

So basically like so many others I’m left with either trying to proactively address a manufacturers known problem and doing it on my dime, or I wait to see if mine fails somewhere on the trail.

Not exactly the kind of choice I thought I was paying $4500.00 to be faced with when I bought this sled,,, Especially when I went out of my way to buy a sled that was marketed as “Bulletproof”

So I think I’ll go half way there:

I will raise my needles one clip, add some wrap to the exhaust, and fabricate a duct from the cowl to the blower housing, and install the oil pump vent kit. And forever more cross my fingers,,,

As my sled is not broken, I find it hard to justify the cyl upgrade and based on the postings from Tom400CFI, I’m not really sure that they will help (may even make matters even worse,,,) and I think I have the same CDI as listed by Frostbit.

Thanks again to all and especially to Tom, I truly feel you pain, best of luck and please keep us posted on your experiences with your fleet.

George
 
Update

ANOTHER UPDATE
I'm still trying to get to the bottom of all the dealer "stories" so I know what's FACT and what's Poo Propaganda.

As it has been explained to me the oil is boiling in the pump causing air bubbles
This myth: BUSTED! No offense to the poster, gcmci...I know he was simply passing on info. Today we took a metal pan filled w/ our 2 stroke oil of choice, istalled a temp probe and heated the pan/oil w/a heat gun. Results?

*At ~230*F the oil starts to smoke.
*At 300*F the oil is smoking a lot
*At ~350*F, the oil ignites
*At NO TIME, did air bubbles form, or did "boiling" of any kind, occur.

This Polaris sourced myth is BUSTED. Air MUST be "forming" in the oil pump due to an AIR LEAK; aka "Vacuum leak". There's no other way for air to get into the pump!

IThat's what our local dealer told us a couple years ago. We took a machine up on the hill on a 60*F day, no ducting, box stock, and ran it a 10-15 mph, then popped the hood and shot the pump w/a Laser/temp gun. Result? ~190*F. What temp does oil "boil" at? CAN oil even boil? The oil in my Corvette gets up to 300*F on a track day. No "boiling" there...
 
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i always thought the boiling oil hence bubble theory was bunk. and when the oil is in a closed system like a pressure cooker it would boil at a even higher temp. i don,t think it gets that hot where the oil pump is. if there is a bubble i think it is either mechanical or vacumn. the only thing i don't get is the oil bleeder is on the suction side of the pump. if a bubble gets there and needs bled i think it is a residual bubble between tank and pump or in the pump itself and it tends to go up into the bleed tube. that being said, i think the pump would have to have a lot of air to cavitate and that would mean inverting the sled to allow air into the feed line from the tank. i think if there is oil problems it is the pump itself (bad design or vacumn leak) or failure of the pressure side of the system between the pump and engine. i know the few i have rebuilt i premixed and ran it to verify oil into the intake. i'm sure you did too. i have watched bubbles in the pressure side slowly make it to the engine and disappear. this was on older sleds with banjo bolts, i haven't done it with the 550. i think the oil bleed kit is corporate head scratching/guessing. i'll bet this pump system is used on other sleds with no motor meltdowns. i stilll think it is heat and or ethanol gas. but i think if heat is not an issue then the gas formulation would not be either. i don't see too many on this thread with trail rmk motor issues, i think because of the heat shielding that came on the sleds. who knows! beer 30
 
05 Trail RMK, burn down with 1,000 miles. Wifes sled, so thats 1,000 easy miles, elevation was 6,000 ft putting down trail to get to play area. Polaris claimed tollerance issues, covered all but $25, warranty. Good luck
 
05 Trail RMK, burn down with 1,000 miles. Wifes sled, so thats 1,000 easy miles, elevation was 6,000 ft putting down trail to get to play area. Polaris claimed tollerance issues, covered all but $25, warranty. Good luck
lovesnow, look at my post 107 and let me know if yours was setup like mine. just trying to prevent a meltdown.
 
Tom, I haven't forgotten about you buddy. Actually I've been doing some more looking in the past while and have come up with something that may help you a little. I have also forwarded this info to someone with clout in Roseau.
It appears to me that you have the standard predominant mag-side seizures on the majority of these sleds. Take a look at the oil pumps. The line running to the mag carb is the highest one on the pump where the pto and bearing supply lines both run from the lower location. I have a theory that if you lengthen and swap the mag/pto lines that you will lessen your problems. I suspect that even if the new pto line does get a bubble the bearing feed line will supply enough oil to the pto piston to, at least, gain you some more running time on the sleds.
A second experiment I'd like you to try is to seal the gap between the cylinders between the underside of the triangular plug down to the case with some high-temp silicone to prevent the hot air from being blown onto the pump. There is a sizable gap there allowing hot air from the fan to escape.
Let me know if any of this helps you. I'm also doing some experiments but it may take longer for me to get results.

Cheers
 
Installed the vent kit last night on my daughters 04 Trail RMK. Again this was the second burn down on the PTO side in 600 miles. This time the piston seized after I warmed the motor for approx 8 minutes, then my daughter rode for about 10 minutes. Top of piston was black, no aluminum melting. Sides of piston and cylinder extremely gouged. Mag side good to go.

Vent kit was a bit of a hassle to install. Starter housing duct mount holds didn’t line up quite right. Had to elongate. Bolts were long enough for 2 starter housings. Snapped the nipple off tightening it into the oil pump (for the return line). Instruction say to tighten with pliers, but nothing about how flimsy the thing is (installation of other bolts in the process list torques). Put template on underside of hood for the louver that the fan shroud duct will mate up against, and it was off by about 1.5 inches. Trimmed the template to where it lined up like is should, marked and drilled, and cut out the hole. Louver larger by maybe .010” then hole (better then oversized hole I guess). More trimming and elongating holes for the louver and for the holes the mounting posts go into. Finally finished with that. Didn’t need to install the side vents or belly vent since my sled came with those. Have not tackled the fuel pump relocation yet, but I believe Frostbit said I will need a new fuel pump to allow that mod to work properly.

So, I have right at $2000 in repairs for this sled over the past two riding seasons because of burn downs, and I did 90% of the work myself. 2 piston sets, seals, a new jug last year when that piston came apart and ruined the bottom of the jug, a new reed and housing, boring of the cylinder on this year’s burn down, and vent kit to hopefully eliminate this issue, not to mention the lost snowmobiling time and personal time. Nice sled and manufacture support…
 
What I'm MOST impressed with is the build quality!
Starter housing duct mount holds didn’t line up quite right. Had to elongate. Put template on underside of hood for the louver that the fan shroud duct will mate up against, and it was off by about 1.5 inches. Trimmed the template to where it lined up like is should, marked and drilled, and cut out the hole. Louver larger by maybe .010” then hole (better then oversized hole I guess). More trimming and elongating holes for the louver and for the holes the mounting posts go into.


Nice sled and manufacture support…
Again, it would be one thing if Polaris gave you the junk (to fix the junk) for free, and it was that quality. But they don't.
 
This is my first post here. I had bought my wife a Trail RMK, because I always thought the fans were bulletproof. It's a 2003, so maybe we got lucky because it's a Gen II chassis, and it has the heat shielding. After reading this horror story, I immediately had to check it out yesterday. Plugs are nice chocolate brown on PTO side and a little rich on the Mag side, piston wash is fine.
 
tom, I just read your whole thread....wow. since you have a bunch of these to work with and have found a bore clearance that seems to be working I offer this:
try mixing the tank on one of your rebuild sleds at say...50:1. I would not give a rip which oil, as long as it is jaso safe. I am looking at your pics and the sleds that ate pistons ALL look like they starved for oil to me.

the cyl temps on the fanners do work to your benefit as the jug grows with the piston....just not as fast. I have noticed in big bores that make a lot of heat fast, big bore clearances are a must.

I bet you could run cast pistons of any make if you could get your bore in the +/- 4 thou range and premix the fuel untill you get the oil pump figured out. getting the cooling right is only gonna help I am not seeing typical heat problems as much as oil. I know it's a pain, but pick a sled and make that one a test sled. pre mix the tank and run the oiler for the crank.

I don't think you have to try to jet overly fat, at some point the fat jetting is gonna make more underhood heat in the pipe.

it looks to me like you have a true run of jewels there:rolleyes: I applaud you for taking the time to write it all up.
 
This is my first post here. I had bought my wife a Trail RMK, because I always thought the fans were bulletproof. It's a 2003, so maybe we got lucky because it's a Gen II chassis, and it has the heat shielding. After reading this horror story, I immediately had to check it out yesterday. Plugs are nice chocolate brown on PTO side and a little rich on the Mag side, piston wash is fine.

BadgerND,
I would be very inclined to go with what Tom suggests, but if it were me I would still put on the oil pump vent kit (actually somewhat of an oil circulator), and the vent kit for the fan housing (Can’t vouch for how it will fit your 03. You can see from my post how it fit my 04). All will come in one kit for $200. You may never suffer a burn down without the kit, but if you do…
FYI, I checked the plugs on my daughter’s 04 Trail RMK the night before our ride and her second burn down. Nice chocolate brown.

Bart
 
Badger ND, The ventilation is better in the older Gen II cowling. The engine seems to last a LOT longer in that chassis. Another "Heat/engine life" corrilation. We still have two '99's that run great, no problems.



I offer this:
try mixing the tank on one of your rebuild sleds at say...50:1.

I bet you could run cast pistons of any make if you could get your bore in the +/- 4 thou range and premix the fuel untill you get the oil pump figured out.
We've already tried premixing. Didn't make a difference. Did you see all the OIL coating everything in my pics? FOR US, the SPI cast pistons stick at .004". Break skirts at .005".

ANOTHER UPDATE:
We took one of our .007" Forged/Wiseco motored machines and disabled the PERC. One of my techs had a theory that the oil pumps are sucking air when the engine is run in reverse. (It is a fact that the oil pump DOES pump the oil BACKWARD when the engine is operated in reverse). With the "oil bleeder kit" tube full of oil, we clamped the line and sent the sled out. 1 week later we checked the blocked bleeder hose, and it was completely full of air, all the way down to the oil pump. What....The....Fk, Polaris??. Still runing fine, but why in this model only do they have issues w/air in the oil pump?

I need to disassemble and inspect an oil pump next. This is ridiculous. At least all of our .007" Wiseco motors are still running. :/
 
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