427 hp 1200 4tec (on day one)

[Need for Speed 2]

The problem is clear here. The yammy guys including myself have had the top spot for so long using boost, we feel threatened and are lashing out. Haha bring it on oems this will make it better for everyone turbo parts cheaper more RD products . Its great guys stop acting like little babies and embrace the new kid on the block. In the end we all win and competition is what every boosted yammy owner lives for.

 

[Mcx Nytro]

Anyone hear of what the weight of this HEAVY 4 STROKE----------- according to BMP hype ----will be after the turbo and the decent track??? And will they be racing this one at the snocross level????

 

[BIG JOHN]

Why is that ? I bet it could happen with the same gas. Amazing things can happen on a dyno but dont expect it to last in the real world. Besides it has a 200cc advantage so it should make more power.How smart does someone look bragging that 1000 Cat beats a stock 800 Doo on the Ski-Doo site.

The point is Yamaha "broke the ice" in this whole 4S game...and DOO saw how well they were doing...hence the 1200 4tec...

As for hp to CC?? the Nytro has 50 more cc's than the Apex so does that mean it makes more power automatically under boost???....

The 1200 4tec OBVIOUSLY was built with boost in mind...Yamaha took a street bike motor and transplanted it...the Nytro motor was built with snow cross in mind, so there can be "inherent" deficiencies for boost....THEY still make great power (obviously)...but they dont make optimum power under boost as originally designed by Yamaha...

apples/apples....stock vs stock...same turbo...same boost the 1200 is tough to beat...

Garret 25 @ 6.5 psi = 205 hp and 133 tq w/87 oct. fuel
Aero 66 @ 22 psi = 427 hp and 275 tq w/120 oct. fuel

FYI- the APEX races in the 600 triple class (it was legal in the 600sp class before the Nytro came out)...the Nytro runs the 600sp class...the new 1200 will run the 600sp class too...the new 130+ hp 600cc 2S race sleds "MIGHT" be able to compete...the 4S sleds are quick and cleaned up the last couple years..

As I posted earlier...I am just bringing new info to light...NOT dogging anyone or any sled...just playing the new kid on the block card...and its SUMMER!!!-BJ

 

[BIG JOHN]

The problem is clear here. The yammy guys including myself have had the top spot for so long using boost, we feel threatened and are lashing out. Haha bring it on oems this will make it better for everyone turbo parts cheaper more RD products . Its great guys stop acting like little babies and embrace the new kid on the block. In the end we all win and competition is what every boosted yammy owner lives for.

This post sums it up*....thank you-BJ

*you shouldnt feel threatened yet....we just opened the door and said HI..

 

[ruffryder]

Big John,

Care to give the details about what all your kits include?

Like intercooler, fuel pump, turbo, all plumbing, controller, etc?

Good job btw, sounds like a cool project.

When you say it seems like it was built for boost, you talking about the cam timing and the piston/stroke dimensions?

 

[BIG JOHN]

Big John,

Care to give the details about what all your kits include?

Like intercooler, fuel pump, turbo, all plumbing, controller, etc?

Good job btw, sounds like a cool project.

When you say it seems like it was built for boost, you talking about the cam timing and the piston/stroke dimensions?

First off its not my kit...its Full Powers...the stage 1 kit will come with everything needed for a pump gas 200+ hp...gauges and lightweight muffler are options...a full detail on complete kit will be available soon..

Built for boost has several factors.. like you mentioned..one of the biggest advantage is the large bore/valve area...

 

[srxspec]

Garret 25 @ 6.5 psi = 205 hp and 133 tq w/87 oct. fuel
Aero 66 @ 22 psi = 427 hp and 275 tq w/120 oct. fuel

FYI- the APEX races in the 600 triple class (it was legal in the 600sp class before the Nytro came out)...the Nytro runs the 600sp class...the new 1200 will run the 600sp class too...the new 130+ hp 600cc 2S race sleds "MIGHT" be able to compete...the 4S sleds are quick and cleaned up the last couple years..

Actually the Apex was never classified in the 600sp class. The RX-1 was classified into the 600 triple pipe class and the first year that it was several associations allowed it to run in the 600sp class, but it was never actually classified there by ISR. The Apex has always been classified in the 600 multi pipe class.

I will have an Apex with an Aero 66 on it at Dynotech sometime in August. I will try to take some VP Import along and push some boost to have comparitive numbers.

 

[HANDSOME]

The point is Yamaha "broke the ice" in this whole 4S game...and DOO saw how well they were doing...hence the 1200 4tec...

As for hp to CC?? the Nytro has 50 more cc's than the Apex so does that mean it makes more power automatically under boost???....

The 1200 4tec OBVIOUSLY was built with boost in mind...Yamaha took a street bike motor and transplanted it...the Nytro motor was built with snow cross in mind, so there can be "inherent" deficiencies for boost....THEY still make great power (obviously)...but they dont make optimum power under boost as originally designed by Yamaha...

apples/apples....stock vs stock...same turbo...same boost the 1200 is tough to beat...

Garret 25 @ 6.5 psi = 205 hp and 133 tq w/87 oct. fuel
Aero 66 @ 22 psi = 427 hp and 275 tq w/120 oct. fuel

FYI- the APEX races in the 600 triple class (it was legal in the 600sp class before the Nytro came out)...the Nytro runs the 600sp class...the new 1200 will run the 600sp class too...the new 130+ hp 600cc 2S race sleds "MIGHT" be able to compete...the 4S sleds are quick and cleaned up the last couple years..

As I posted earlier...I am just bringing new info to light...NOT dogging anyone or any sled...just playing the new kid on the block card...and its SUMMER!!!-BJ

Not automatically but why should anyone be surprised that a 1200 boosted makes more power than a 1050 boosted especially if it was built for boost in the first place. New info is great and pound for pound of boost the Doo has it but there are Yamahas making over way over 300hp on stock internals but no one wants to chance breaking a rod by running that much boost thru a stock motor.

 

[ruffryder]

but no one wants to chance breaking a rod by running that much boost thru a stock motor.

Might be important to state that those with a lot of boost, have a lot of money in other parts of the sled, so dumping a couple of grand for better internals not be much of a big deal.

couple of pennies

 

[HANDSOME]

Might be important to state that those with a lot of boost, have a lot of money in other parts of the sled, so dumping a couple of grand for better internals not be much of a big deal.

couple of pennies

I know that but what I am saying is that with the right gas and and header it may be possible to reach those #s on a Yamaha but no one we know of has done it on a dyno. I know an RX1 powered rail that has ran low 8's and the mechanic told me the rods are stronger than most people think and he knows this by trial and error. The whole reason I replied to this post is because BJ thinks it hasn't ever happened and will never happen and brags that a bigger engine that was built for boost stomps a smaller one that clearly wasn't built for boost. Dah !

 

[johnny be bad]

I know that but what I am saying is that with the right gas and and header it may be possible to reach those #s on a Yamaha but no one we know of has done it on a dyno. I know an RX1 powered rail that has ran low 8's and the mechanic told me the rods are stronger than most people think and he knows this by trial and error. The whole reason I replied to this post is because BJ thinks it hasn't ever happened and will never happen and brags that a bigger engine that was built for boost stomps a smaller one that clearly wasn't built for boost. Dah !

and all the boosted yammies beat non boosted and everyone brags they have the baddest thing on the planet!!!! kinda like a 1050cc nytro in the 600cc class!!! whats to brag about there? oh but thats fair because it a yamaha and its a four stroke!!! what a joke......

 

[Viper5]

and all the boosted yammies beat non boosted and everyone brags they have the baddest thing on the planet!!!! kinda like a 1050cc nytro in the 600cc class!!! whats to brag about there? oh but thats fair because it a yamaha and its a four stroke!!! what a joke......

Fawk your dense, the reason they run in the 600 class is they are both 130 hp, the same class the new skud will run in. How hard is it to understand ?

 

[zebiraross]

I know that but what I am saying is that with the right gas and and header it may be possible to reach those #s on a Yamaha but no one we know of has done it on a dyno. I know an RX1 powered rail that has ran low 8's and the mechanic told me the rods are stronger than most people think and he knows this by trial and error. The whole reason I replied to this post is because BJ thinks it hasn't ever happened and will never happen and brags that a bigger engine that was built for boost stomps a smaller one that clearly wasn't built for boost. Dah !

There are plenty of Yamaha's pushing more then 42x hp. Add another 100 to that and you have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpZSzQez9GU

 

[johnny be bad]

Fawk your dense, the reason they run in the 600 class is they are both 130 hp, the same class the new skud will run in. How hard is it to understand ?

ok azzhat what 600 put out 138hp??? none!!! 120hp yes.since your so smart!!!

 

[HANDSOME]

There are plenty of Yamaha's pushing more then 42x hp. Add another 100 to that and you have this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hpZSzQez9GU

Yes, I saw that on TY a while back..that Hurricane has his chit together. Dave has had a stock TApex hit 360hp on a dyno.. I would like to see how far you could go before something lets go but not with mine.

 

[Viper5]

ok azzhat what 600 put out 138hp??? none!!! 120hp yes.since your so smart!!!

Johnnys' a little grouchy I couldn't find the horsepower rating for the skidoo 600 2 stroke, are they hiding something ? The new 4 stroke is 130.The nytro is rated at 130 not sure where you get 138 from. The dragon is 125 and cat 120-2stroke & 125 for the 4 stroke. My understanding is 600 class 120-130 hp.
Why you so scared of the nytro if they are so heavy, even the under powered doo should still beat them. Do you actually beleive the 4 stroke sleds should run in the class by engine displacement ? So what class would the 1200cc doo be in ? I don't think it would fare very well in the 1000cc plus class, but it should do well in the 600 class.

The Shift also has a slightly different Cleanfire 600 engine than the IQ and Dragon machines, the engine in the shift is a carbureted 600 with 120 hp whereas the IQ and Dragon are equipped with a fuel injected Cleanfire 600 that produces 125hp. Tracks are all different also, the Shift gets a 15’x121”x0.91” Shockwave, the IQ a 15”x121”x1” Hacksaw, and the Dragon a 15”x121”x1.25” Hacksaw.

The Canadian brand brings a lot of new technology to the 600 class for 2009 with two new engines. Although the new Rotax 1200 4-Tec won’t qualify for 600 Snocross racing because of the 1050cc limit, its 130 hp output puts it in the 600 class. The second new engine is a direct injected 600 cc two-stroke twin. These engines are available in the rough trail MXZ and the luxury sport GSX models.

Arctic Cat’s offers a couple of engine choices for the 600 or 120-130hp class, a 120hp two-stroke 600cc twin F6 and a 125hp four-stroke 1056cc twin Z1.

 

[johnny be bad]

Johnnys' a little grouchy I couldn't find the horsepower rating for the skidoo 600 2 stroke, are they hiding something ? The new 4 stroke is 130.The nytro is rated at 130 not sure where you get 138 from. The dragon is 125 and cat 120-2stroke & 125 for the 4 stroke. My understanding is 600 class 120-130 hp.
Why you so scared of the nytro if they are so heavy, even the under powered doo should still beat them. Do you actually beleive the 4 stroke sleds should run in the class by engine displacement ? So what class would the 1200cc doo be in ? I don't think it would fare very well in the 1000cc plus class, but it should do well in the 600 class.

The Shift also has a slightly different Cleanfire 600 engine than the IQ and Dragon machines, the engine in the shift is a carbureted 600 with 120 hp whereas the IQ and Dragon are equipped with a fuel injected Cleanfire 600 that produces 125hp. Tracks are all different also, the Shift gets a 15’x121”x0.91” Shockwave, the IQ a 15”x121”x1” Hacksaw, and the Dragon a 15”x121”x1.25” Hacksaw.

The Canadian brand brings a lot of new technology to the 600 class for 2009 with two new engines. Although the new Rotax 1200 4-Tec won’t qualify for 600 Snocross racing because of the 1050cc limit, its 130 hp output puts it in the 600 class. The second new engine is a direct injected 600 cc two-stroke twin. These engines are available in the rough trail MXZ and the luxury sport GSX models.

Arctic Cat’s offers a couple of engine choices for the 600 or 120-130hp class, a 120hp two-stroke 600cc twin F6 and a 125hp four-stroke 1056cc twin Z1.

well if you were on dynotech or any of the other dyno sites you would know that the nytro dynoed at 138hp, hell the 700 dragon was only 137hp!!!! and now what they get a cc advantage in the 600 class!!! 18hp is still an advantage. weight on not!!! im all for progress,but open your eyes and compare apples to apples!!!! rant over.

 

[happyhour]

Out of all the 4strokes going up against the Yammi, I think the Cats 4stroker is certainly more inviting.
1. The only closed loop efi system used in a snowmobile! the closed loop if perfected could literally take the worries and hassles out of all fuel tuning...set you A/F ratio and the computer maintains the ratio at any throttle. (perfection)
2. boosted at 5lbs at 177hp!
3. Suzuki technology.....second only to yamaha.

This one is the one to watch.......until then.....the TAPEX is king 4 me.

sorry the cat is not the only one with a closed loop in a sled polaris 750 turbo runs a very nice system as well just wait till they get someone to fig. out the programing so that a guy can adjust it that twin is going to be a wild little package as well

 

[pinnedunderdoo#3]

yea thats straight up bs the nytro in the 600 class..... just say F@ck hp number who cares thats just a calculated number the torque difference between a 600 2 stroke and a 1050 4 stroke is bs to compare them..... imo

 

[BIG JOHN]

I know that but what I am saying is that with the right gas and and header it may be possible to reach those #s on a Yamaha but no one we know of has done it on a dyno. I know an RX1 powered rail that has ran low 8's and the mechanic told me the rods are stronger than most people think and he knows this by trial and error. The whole reason I replied to this post is because BJ thinks it hasn't ever happened and will never happen and brags that a bigger engine that was built for boost stomps a smaller one that clearly wasn't built for boost. Dah !

A) I'm not bragging...I'm just informing of current facts..

B) After a couple phone calls...a STOCK Apex (4 cyl/4 tbs/4 tube header) wont make that power...the 1200 (3 cyl/1 tb/3 into 1 exhust manifold) motor will STOCK...this isnt bragging...if I'm wrong name ONE guy who made over 425 hp on either a stock Nytro or Apex??

C) For the 3rd or 4th time...this is for your info...I am having a little fun..but its SUMMER!! RELAX...the new kid "MIGHT" give the boosted Yammies some competion.....BJ