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Why can't saving lives be affordable???

A distributor's point of view on Snowpulse and ABS

Hello All,

Being a distributor for Snowpulse avalanche airbags (a new airbag coming on to the market for next winter), having been a dealer of ABS packs in the past, and being a professional member of the Canadian Avalanche Association and a course instructor, I thought i might be able to provide some insight into this matter.

First of all, currently the market is very small and we all know that things work on a scale of economy. At this time there are very few people using airbag backpacks although that is changing and i expect the price to drop slightly in the coming years due to this fact. There are more products coming on to the market and the public is getting much more aware of avalanche airbag backpacks. I know Klim (the US distributor for ABS) sold 500 ABS packs in all of the US last year, they sold out fairly quickly but that is all they sold.

A lot of the cost comes from R&D, liability insurance, as well as the materials. Setting off avalanches, testing, filming, helicopter time, materials, that stuff costs a lot and it needs to be recovered at some point.

As for the costs of the Snowpulse; a Snowpulse cylinder has to hold a pressure of 3000psi, as well as the fact it comes with a guage and has Transport Canada and DOT approval. The bag itself is also not cheap to manufacture, you do not want it coming apart in an avalanche. I am told that the airbag material makes up a large portion of the cost of the airbag. This is a special, very high strength, puncture resistant material which is used. The Snowpulse backpack is also stitched in such a manner that it creates a harness around the user and uses material found in climbing harnesses. As a final note the buckle which is used with the Snowpulse is rated and tested and is not cheap. And then there is an import duty which countries apply for items manufactured outside of North America (Snowpulse and ABS).

So as a distributor I end up paying a lot for these packs from the manufacturer. Then i need to make something otherwise no one would want to distribute, having said that my margins are significantly lower than most distributors. And then it needs to be attractive for the retailer to sell, because they need to make money, whether this device will save your life or not. If a retailer makes no money the majority of them will not stock the product and then no one uses it and no one wins. The mark-up on a Snowpulse pack is at the low end of average and I know that within Canada the mark-up on ABS is very small which is a big reason why they are not widespread. No one gives tire shops a hard time for making money off winter tires and so retailers should not be given a hard time for making money off of safety gear. If you want to play safe you need to pay.

If you want to learn more about Snowpulse check out www.snowpulse.com or my website (being redone soon) www.avalanchesafety.ca. You can learn more about ABS from several websites. As an avalanche educator and having being involved in recovery operations of avalanche victims i encourage everyone to get a bit of basic knowledge and use the safety gear available. Then get out there and rip.
 
Hello All,

So as a distributor I end up paying a lot for these packs from the manufacturer. Then i need to make something otherwise no one would want to distribute, having said that my margins are significantly lower than most distributors. And then it needs to be attractive for the retailer to sell, because they need to make money, whether this device will save your life or not. If a retailer makes no money the majority of them will not stock the product and then no one uses it and no one wins. The mark-up on a Snowpulse pack is at the low end of average and I know that within Canada the mark-up on ABS is very small which is a big reason why they are not widespread. No one gives tire shops a hard time for making money off winter tires and so retailers should not be given a hard time for making money off of safety gear. If you want to play safe you need to pay.





....I disagree with the whole "Pay for safety" argument. I realize you are in business to make a buck, but on certain items, beacons, and air bags, selling at cost is beneficial to you. First it will get people to your store, or website to purchase the items, and then they can see the other items you have available, and they will purchase said other items, because they know you are selling at cost, and will support you. I buy beacons at pro-form cost, through a search and rescue program, and know what dealer cost is, and some of the mark-up is outrageous on them.


....getting off my soapbox now, how about selling air bags and beacons at cost to people upon completion of a avy course? Then you could sell a shovel, probe, and backpack at a decent margin, get more customers, potentially save a life, and get more people educated about the dangers of avalanches? Bet you would see a significant rise in the bottom line, and be a hero in the retail world??


Ace
 
....I disagree with the whole "Pay for safety" argument.
Ace

Then you also disagree for paying for shelter, brakes and brake pads, airport security, avalanche safety courses, highway maintenance, helmets, your city water purification and sewage treatment, etc. Just because things keep you safer they should not be free. Virtually nothing else is free in life, especially in the recreation world. We promote avalanche safety and make a living; that is a win for the consumer and a win for us. If you choose not to use the products then you put yourself at risk and that affects you way more than it does me. Ask any retailer what they make on safety products and it is a substantially lower margin than almost anything else. We are not a wealthy company.

As a note we do sell some safety gear at a lower price to participants of our avalanche education courses. But being that avalanche safety is the majority of our business it is important to make some profit from all areas. If you run your own business you know that it is not cheap and is a crap load of work.

As a final note in the fall, i go hugely into debt. Everything i own is on the line including my house and other assets. This is to cover stock, liability insurance, running of the business, and some advertising. This is done at the potential for making some money but there are no guarantees. I am not going to put myself at this kind of risk and this kind of debt without any potential for reward (in fact at a huge loss) so that the consumer can go out on their weekends, roop about, and be a bit safer. If I was in it only for saving lives I would be better off putting all the money I could find into buying clean water wells in Africa.

Your statement shows a lack of understanding about our business and the issues involved.
 
I understand where you are coming from, and will agree to disagree with you. As a small business owner myself, I know that profit isn't a dirty word. However, I stand by my thoughts on the whole selling beacons and airbags at cost theroy. Lots of retailers use this "lost leader" to promote new business. Good luck with your endevors.


Ace Bollinger
 
The debate isn't about your life being worth more than a thousand bucks, you can't put a price tag on that ****. I own a snowboard shop, and I sell the avalanche gear, but to the selected few that are armed with avy knowledge. Companys will never drop there prices for safety gear. Insurance companys will never drop their rates etc. It's a shame. We can all dream though. Instead of spending your thousand bucks on a inflatable airbag go do your avalanche 1 awareness course ($250), tranceiver ($250), a good shovel and probe($150) for a total of just under $700 bucks, and take an educated stand on saving your life or your bros. Lets be proactive, after all, this is our life we are dealing with.
 
An avalanche safety class is definitely the first step. After that you probably want to save up for an airbag (and being the distributor for Snowpulse i recommend that one, it has a lot of advantages over the ABS) rather than a transceiver. If you can afford to sled you should be able to afford the safety gear, all of it. Statistically speaking an avalanche transceiver does not increase your chances of survival very much, whereas an airbag greatly increases your chance of survival. I strongly recommend using all the gear but if i had to choose between an airbag or a transceiver it's a no brainer. Being on top is better.
 
An avalanche safety class is definitely the first step. After that you probably want to save up for an airbag (and being the distributor for Snowpulse i recommend that one, it has a lot of advantages over the ABS) rather than a transceiver. If you can afford to sled you should be able to afford the safety gear, all of it. Statistically speaking an avalanche transceiver does not increase your chances of survival very much, whereas an airbag greatly increases your chance of survival. I strongly recommend using all the gear but if i had to choose between an airbag or a transceiver it's a no brainer. Being on top is better.

I don't want to turn this into a pissing match, but I hope you are not recommending that people ride without beacons while the are 'saving up' for an airbag. I personally will not go riding without my beacon AND my ABS Airbag. If you have enough money to buy a beacon but not an airbag, buy the beacon and then save your money for an airbag, but don't go riding in Avy country while you are "saving up" for the Airbag.

As far as which Airbag, the ABS has a proven track record and the SnowPulse has some great ideas, but not a track record to back it up (that I am aware of). Either way, I would recommend getting an airbag....ABS or SnowPulse. Both the ABS and the SnowPulse have advantages and disadvantages over the other.
 
I love being on top, you can really get some torque in. But seriously, an avy course and a tranceiver is a must, along with shovel and probe. Then maybe if your rich, an air bag. Then you can take as many risks as you want to.(sarcasm)
 
I'm pretty sure nobody with any pull will ever see this, but who knows. Why would companies make such a great product like the avalanche airbags and make it so only a few can afford to have them. I understand there must be some cost involved in their production, but come on $800-$1000, give me a break. I would be willing to wage the production cost in these couldn't be more than a few hundred dollars, if that. I would love to ride with an ABS pack, but it's really not feasible. I'd be willing to pay even $500 for the security, but damn, if I bought a little backpack it would be more than my month payments for my house and truck. It's just frustrating. Any inventors out there want to start making their own and selling for a fraction of the cost?

It is affordable. Say the hell off of those bad places. Deep snow on hay meadows is the best. No rocks, no trees, no slides. The areas with no trees will slide, usually that is why their are no trees.
 
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