Why can't saving lives be affordable???

[reloader]

Interesting, I do not find the ABS packs that expensive. I mean less then a grand for a device like this. We pay many more thousands for our sleds and mods. I guess it depends on what is important to you. I wont ride without my becaon shovel probe & avy pack.
Also the packs are very quality made and I think that absorbs a lot of the cost.
Like anything you get what you pay for. I dont know about the rest of you, but I would not want to rely on a budget air bag pack to save my life.
If it is something that is really important to you, you will find a way to buy it.
My .02

 

[PassRev]

reloader,

That is my personal view as well.
If I'm spending money on something that has the potential to save my life, I'm willing to pay more for, better design, materials, craftsmanship, etc. This isn't the place to cut corners in order to drop the cost at retail.

 

[Sulley]

R&D, these types of devices have been around for years in flotation devices etc, I am sure it did not take hundreds of thousand of dollars to design this thing........it was not brand new technology. Only thing they had to really do is fit it into a pack that was workable for a sledder (re-package it). Ask any combat swimmer how long the Co2 activation type life vests have been around.....long time. Same thing just different package. So I still think they are very expensive and should come down in price and eventually should. It's a lifesaver but these companies are making a huge profit, don't fool yourself with the R&D chat. When they hit the $500 mark I will jump on it.

 

[revver]

Honestly, i am not saying anything bad, but this is the dumbest post there is.
My sled is worth $ 14,000
My sled trailer, $2000
My cell phone, $850
My FXR jacket $500
Liquor for 1 weekend in the mountains, $200
Trip to the mountains with fuel, rooms and food, $500
My Vario ABS bag, $1140

The ABS bag is the " Best thing on the market, today, to keep yourself above the snow". Tomorrow there could be somthing better.

The way i look at it, it costs $1000 for pipes and can for a sled.
You are getting a backpack, that keeps you above the snow.
These bags are made in europe, not in china or packistan by children.
Where does All the most expensive cars in the world come from.....EUROPE

Think about it there has to be a extreme amount of quality control in the making of the bags, they do have a definate purpose, and if it does not work, you dont take it back for warranty in your next life. The bags HAVE TO WORK.

Okay lets lay it out,
Make the backpack complete, not a 1/2 hour task, hand made every one. Plus materials
Make the air bag diaphrams. Not a 1/2 hour task, plus materials.
Valves, nirtogen filled handles, lines the bottles, this is all quality products that have to work.
Ship the bags here.
Distribute them accordingly and make money yourself.

You have a pipeline from Mc Murray to Shell Scotford in fort sask. You get some real red seal, b pressure welders to weld it, or hairdressers making it out of cast iron pipe with MJ's holding it together, well what is going to cost more.

If you really work the numbers in your head, its not that much money at all.

Just what a guy thinks.

 

[Benchwarmer]

Nice list Revver, mine is similar + $50,000. for the truck to haul it all out there.

They are a very expensive back pack you cant argue that, but they are a dirt cheap get out of Hell free card if you ever need it...(And yes I know they dont make you 100% safe.)

 

[Cyle]

Nice list Revver, mine is similar + $50,000. for the truck to haul it all out there.

They are a very expensive back pack you cant argue that, but they are a dirt cheap get out of Hell free card if you ever need it...(And yes I know they dont make you 100% safe.)

IMO the ABS packs are actully BAD for some people because it gives them false security. I just went though a avalanche course, and well plain and simple I will not buy a ABS pack, because i'd rather avoid going to places that are prone to slide(yes I know ANYTHING can slide). 25% of all fatalities are due to trama, the ABS does nothing for that, and even if you pull it, you CAN still go under. Sure it would be nice if they were around $500, and then I bet a LOT more people would have them. Personally, i'd rather be cautious about what I ride, know how to use the beacon and probe real well if something does happen. If your really worried, I would go take avalanche courses, a few days of that and your going to be a lot safer then with a ABS pack.

 

[reloader]

IMO the ABS packs are actully BAD for some people because it gives them false security. I just went though a avalanche course, and well plain and simple I will not buy a ABS pack, because i'd rather avoid going to places that are prone to slide(yes I know ANYTHING can slide). 25% of all fatalities are due to trama, the ABS does nothing for that, and even if you pull it, you CAN still go under. Sure it would be nice if they were around $500, and then I bet a LOT more people would have them. Personally, i'd rather be cautious about what I ride, know how to use the beacon and probe real well if something does happen. If your really worried, I would go take avalanche courses, a few days of that and your going to be a lot safer then with a ABS pack.

Why dont you list some more reasons NOT to buy one, because that is really all you are saying.
PRICE IS IRRELEVANT when it comes to saving your life IMO.
Of cousre there is no 100% save but you get all the gear you can and ride smart.
I know everyone wants them to be $500, but that is not realistic right now. Pay the price and get on with your life.

 

[slednutz]

You guys should all go over to Europe and buy them then you can spend your 500 dollars on one. I believe the technology for it all started over in Europe I would have a guess in saying that part of the reason is getting the things to the US from overseas but I am not 100 percent sure that probably was the case a couple of years ago but it is a european product I believe. I will pay whatever knowing I have some help in a case that I was in an avalanche and will be able to come home to my family. Yes I know about avalanche danger and Along with all of the gear everybody needs to take an avalanche course and become aware of the danger that is out there

 

[revneck]

I own 2 beacons, 2 probes, 3 shovels, one ABS pack. I wear one one beacon and keep the extra beacon for the guy who shows up without one, same for the probes, one shovel on my sled under the hood, one shovel on my back. The ABS pack is new, hurt like he11 to pay for it, but I have it.

I have a bit more faith in surviving an avy. I really don't care that I have around $2000 in this equipment because I can afford it, and it is mine to keep and use for years.

I have a family and a responsibility to come home safe so this stuff is cheap. If you want to play you gotta pay.

There are some good posts on this topic...

Ditto... ABS pack and Tracker goes on before I ride...its just part of the back country sport

What's sleddin cost if you are caught in a slide with NO PLAN, NO GEAR and your "BUDDY" has NO CLUE

 

[slednutz]

And also not saying that they prevent avalanches by any means but if you are caught in a slide and you know that you are counting on a family member or a friend to help save you I would want the reasurance that my life is almost in my own hands and that the ABS pack will keep me on top of the snow (not saying that it will) but theoretically to me it is money well spent just for some extra reasurrance

 

[Benchwarmer]

IMO the ABS packs are actully BAD for some people because it gives them false security. I just went though a avalanche course, and well plain and simple I will not buy a ABS pack, because i'd rather avoid going to places that are prone to slide(yes I know ANYTHING can slide). 25% of all fatalities are due to trama, the ABS does nothing for that, and even if you pull it, you CAN still go under. Sure it would be nice if they were around $500, and then I bet a LOT more people would have them. Personally, i'd rather be cautious about what I ride, know how to use the beacon and probe real well if something does happen. If your really worried, I would go take avalanche courses, a few days of that and your going to be a lot safer then with a ABS pack.

Thants why I said in my post I know they dont make you 100% safe! But if you have the beacon,probe, and shovel you get some training, you practice with your gear, you evaluate conditions, and make smart safe choices, you could still get hit.

Why not do all of the above, and have an ABS pack?? Using your logic you dont need any Avy gear.

If 25% of fatalities are due to trauma, that means the other 75% are results of being buried right?? I'm not saying everyone MUST have one, but to say I will not buy one cause it will make me overconfidant??? Come on now.

 

[mtnmodviper]

Honestly, i am not saying anything bad, but this is the dumbest post there is.
My sled is worth $ 14,000
My sled trailer, $2000
My cell phone, $850
My FXR jacket $500
Liquor for 1 weekend in the mountains, $200
Trip to the mountains with fuel, rooms and food, $500
My Vario ABS bag, $1140

The ABS bag is the " Best thing on the market, today, to keep yourself above the snow". Tomorrow there could be somthing better.

The way i look at it, it costs $1000 for pipes and can for a sled.
You are getting a backpack, that keeps you above the snow.
These bags are made in europe, not in china or packistan by children.
Where does All the most expensive cars in the world come from.....EUROPE

Think about it there has to be a extreme amount of quality control in the making of the bags, they do have a definate purpose, and if it does not work, you dont take it back for warranty in your next life. The bags HAVE TO WORK.

Okay lets lay it out,
Make the backpack complete, not a 1/2 hour task, hand made every one. Plus materials
Make the air bag diaphrams. Not a 1/2 hour task, plus materials.
Valves, nirtogen filled handles, lines the bottles, this is all quality products that have to work.
Ship the bags here.
Distribute them accordingly and make money yourself.

You have a pipeline from Mc Murray to Shell Scotford in fort sask. You get some real red seal, b pressure welders to weld it, or hairdressers making it out of cast iron pipe with MJ's holding it together, well what is going to cost more.

If you really work the numbers in your head, its not that much money at all.

Just what a guy thinks.

My God!!! What does an $850 cell phone do? Mine was free with a two year contract and I thought it was a cool phone. It must suck compared to an $850 one.
This post made me think about how a grand for a backpack can be pocket change for one guy and requires a payment plan for another guy, yet both guys equally love snowmobiling, living to ride another day, have loved ones wanting their safe return, etc. It would be nice if life saving devices such as these could be affordable for everyone. At their current prices, it becomes a major purchase for some.

 

[THEPOWDERHOUND]

we were in bc over the weekend.the packs work.dont fool yourselves.spend the money.we werent in a bad area and 1 in our group got caught in a level 3 avy and walked away.without the pack i can tell you,it wouldnt have been good---jim

 

[calahookid]

abs packs

A friend of mine went right to germany were they are made and tried to work out someway to get them cheaper,but could not. There is a patient on them so you can't make them here. A he was told that the big cost is get the air canister and the loaded trigger into canada. Also Please don't think that these will save you everytime, My friend just died the other day, he didn't get to deploy his bag when we found him.You still have to ride in safe areas. Thanks.

 

[Wade]

OK, I'm just painting a big giant target on my forehead here, but what the heck.

Guys with $75,000 invested in their sport forget what it's like to be poor, and want to play. I'm convinced that the ABS guys aren't getting rich off of this, liability and R&D and marketing and manufacturing are cutting the bottom line. Heck, the backpack probably cost them $50, just to start with.

The CO2 valves cost $35, the CO2 cartridges are cheap. The fabric is nothing special, just semi air tight fabric with taped sew seams. Probably the same thing they make high tech jackets out of, with a sprayed on sealant.

You can't copy a patented item, and sell it. But, nothing says you can't build your own. Now, I understand it's a safety item, and you can't just do that. But, I design stuff all day long, so I'm not convinced you need an engineering degree to make this thing. You just need testing, and a couple intelligent people, to pull this off. And, testing is cheap with this.

So, a bunch of you get together, and design a DIY design, and try it. You might be surprised how easy it is to make. But, you better do a lot of testing, you don't want to find out the hard way that you made a mistake.

Just a thought, let the flames begin.

 

[xrated]

OK, I'm just painting a big giant target on my forehead here, but what the heck.

Guys with $75,000 invested in their sport forget what it's like to be poor, and want to play. I'm convinced that the ABS guys aren't getting rich off of this, liability and R&D and marketing and manufacturing are cutting the bottom line. Heck, the backpack probably cost them $50, just to start with.

The CO2 valves cost $35, the CO2 cartridges are cheap. The fabric is nothing special, just semi air tight fabric with taped sew seams. Probably the same thing they make high tech jackets out of, with a sprayed on sealant.

You can't copy a patented item, and sell it. But, nothing says you can't build your own. Now, I understand it's a safety item, and you can't just do that. But, I design stuff all day long, so I'm not convinced you need an engineering degree to make this thing. You just need testing, and a couple intelligent people, to pull this off. And, testing is cheap with this.

So, a bunch of you get together, and design a DIY design, and try it. You might be surprised how easy it is to make. But, you better do a lot of testing, you don't want to find out the hard way that you made a mistake.

Just a thought, let the flames begin.

I'm with ya Wade. I still think a variation off of dive vests or the inflatable life jackets they market for duck hunting/fishing would work just as well and be cheaper. I'm no genius but I don't see why CO2 wouldn't work...

 

[Wade]

Seems most of the airbags are made of Neoprene coated for airtightness, or Hydrin due to it's low temperature flexibility. Looks like a 5 to 7 ounce fabric should be a good place to start testing with. You'll also need to think about the bag having a way to automatically deflate after some time.

 

[joegoo]

Ive never heard of anyone getting buried when they weren't doing something they shouldn't have been, none the less, they are pricey and ya u may float to the top of the slide. But are you gonna have a broken neck or back when it's all said and done? Good chance you will, and another thing to think about is that you gotta see it coming to deploy the bag in time, I don't know anyone who could pull that cord when they're getting pushed down the mountain buried allready. My 0.2 is that a good beacon, shovel and probe, and of course common sense is more than ample protection from these sort of ordeals.

Kinda funny some people have all the gear and think they can still play in bad conditions just cus they have the gear.

 

[clay hale]

air bag

Ive never heard of anyone getting buried when they weren't doing something they shouldn't have been, none the less, they are pricey and ya u may float to the top of the slide. But are you gonna have a broken neck or back when it's all said and done? Good chance you will, and another thing to think about is that you gotta see it coming to deploy the bag in time, I don't know anyone who could pull that cord when they're getting pushed down the mountain buried allready. My 0.2 is that a good beacon, shovel and probe, and of course common sense is more than ample protection from these sort of ordeals.

Kinda funny some people have all the gear and think they can still play in bad conditions just cus they have the gear.

i have an escape 15 bag the instruction say its good light snow only that heavy snow your out of luck

 

[slednutz]

I guess for that one instance where the bag works and I do get a broken neck or a broken back SO WHAT!! I am not dead or buried 15 feet below the snow. I do not think people take these things and think they are invincible. My parents got me one for the assurance that since they are not with me I will have the best gear in the case that I am in an avalanche and that I do know how to use it. Yes I have avalanche training and that should be the first thing one receives. Being 18 and having alot of life left I truely enjoy the sport of snowmobiling but come on people I just really do not get how people can spend thousands upon thousands of dollars on mods and sleds and then do not have the safety gear to back them up. Of course a beacon, probe, and shovel should be first, but right after that should be the ABS pack. They are proven to keep you on top of the snow when they are deployed. I would much rather have one than not being able to regret having one when the time is to late and I am caught in one.