Why Can't Lightweight and Reliability Exist in the same sled?

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Hey hollywood1, I had a '98 700 RMK and it was an awesome sled. I took that thing through hell and back more than once and it just kept on going. I sold it and bought an '02 800 RMK 144 thinking with a longer track and some extra ponies under the hood I'd have an even better sled... I was wrong!! Don't get me wrong, it was a good sled, it ran pretty good and was pretty reliable, but I think my old 700 would have had it's lunch anyday of the week. Then I switched teams and bought an '05 M7 141". From day one, I knew it was going to be far better than either of my RMK's. It has more power than both of them, feels lighter, handles better, and best of all, if I'm just putting down a trail and hit a rock or tree stump, my day isn't over because I've bent a trailing arm...AGAIN!! I rode it stock other than an aftermarket can for the first season and had no problems at all. Just put gas in it and went, and loved every minute of it. In my opinion... huge advancement in a sled, yes I did switch teams, so I'm kind of comparing an apple to an orange, but still an advancement. I would bet that most new sleds out there don't have all the problems that you've listed, whatever the brand. Yes, there are some that do, but I seriously doubt it is the majority. Sh$t happens sometimes. Once in awhile the new sled isn't quite as good as last years (and even that's just opinion), but if you are implying that your old '98 is as good or better than anything new out there, you need to get out of the ice age and into the world of today. Nothing is made perfect, there are always some flaws, but I guarantee you that sleds are getting better and not worse.

Frosty, my .02... If you're willing to spend the money on "extras" for your sled but don't want to lose reliability, find the brand/chassis that you like the best, and spend the rest on taking weight off non-critical things like someone else said. Buy a lightweight hood, a lightweight seat, a lightweight can, a lightweight suspension, and even if the motor doesn't have the highest HP, you'll still outclimb and out manuever those that do because yours is lighter. There are 2 ways to improve power to weight ratio... Increase power, or lose weight. Losing weight won't comprimise reliability if done with some smarts, and it will get you farther up the hill (if that's your thing) just as much as adding HP can.

The 98 RMK is not an ice age sled, it holds it own against anything.....it called track speed which the longer tracks just cannot pull off. Thats nice you are happy with your M and my brother has one except I just cannot get used to that narrow seat...brutal design but to each their own. I would say read the threads and see what problems guys are having. With my 98 I have not had one single problem and quite frankly there is nothing out there that makes me want to write a cheque.....it seems that we are all in love with the latest greatest but Doos still can't even keep a $100 bely on....read the threads.....Ice age my ***.....

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Mjunkuie, you just described my RX-1M. The motor is rock solid. I have lightened up most everything possible and it works very well.

The way the 03 RX-1's keep going and going almost makes it sound like Hollywood1's argument may have some merrit?

The challenge is, I just want one just like it (reliability wise) only 100lbs lighter.

Frosty

You are bang on as just because its new, doesn't mean its better. I was told that with a Doo that you have to learn to ride different....in other words don't nut it off the line because a belt will burn ....great, I like drag racing with my buddies but I have to learn to ride differently....all I can say is I better carry a truck load of belts....The 159 inch track on a Doo I tried couldn't even spin the track.....NICE!!! I think that after sitting on an XP with a snow check Boss seat, this felt the best of all sleds. I did not consider Yammi as I still am not a four stroke fan...yet....and they are just way too heavy and I weigh 210.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Here's an idea, although it isn't very practical. However, if money were no object, you could use your existing RX-1 and have a custom chassis built for it using carbon fiber. Seems like I saw a carbon fiber Rev on here that used a Vector motor. You could probably reuse a bunch of your existing parts and sell whatever is left over. Or go with one of the new, single ply tracks and some exotic super light weight skid. What would be really cool is have them do it at a smaller scale like 7/8ths. Perhaps the RX-1 motor would not be the best choice for a smaller sized sled but at least it wouldn't be lacking in power!

As far as reliability goes I don't know? I'm more familiar with carbon fiber when it comes to mountain bikes. It seems like they only use carbon fiber for cross country mountain bikes and go with aluminum for downhill and freeride bikes are are jumped and beat on. Maybe a carbon fiber sled chassis would be too delicate for jumping and riding fast through the whoops. I don't know.

Problem is, the sled would cost 30 grand!!

 

[Jonny Rocket]

Lee, What are you going to do with all your blue riding gear if you switch teams? That's another grand you will have to add to the cost of your "new" sled.

I am biased of course, but I would say go for the used boosted Nytro. Ryan will have one by the end of this weekend. I am sure he will let you pull the trigger if you ask real nice.

No Blue moutain party this year huh?

Happy new year!!!

J.

 

[Mjunkie]

I've got one more idea for you that I've been trying to talk my brother into doing. He bought new a '03 F7, and then extended the tunnel to a 144 to make it more mountain friendly. My bro is an awesome rider but more than just riding abilities, that sled would go places you wouldn't believe. He would break trail for the rest of the group in 3' of powder. I know that may be hard to believe but it's true. He wasn't highmarking on any of the hills, but he almost always could at least get us to the hills. Anyways, the other day I got a D&D catalog in the mail. In it they have a motor mounting plate replacement for the F7 my brother has so you can drop a F1000 motor in it. Just drop, bolt and go. Yeah, you're going to gain a few pounds because the motor is obviously bigger, but talk about increasing the power to weight ratio, and best of all, you are still running stock. So hopefully that means something to reliability. I'm not saying to go buy an F7, I'm giving you the idea of putting a larger stock motor into a smaller (and lighter) sled. Just a thought.

 

[Frostbite]

Thanks guys, the M100 in the M7 chassis idea sounds interesting.

J, I still love my RX-1 and (I'll probably keep it) but, it's time for something new in the stablle. It may be a Doo, it may be a Poo or maybe a Cat unless Yamaha blows my socks off for 2010. I love Yamaha reliability but I want a ginshu knife this time around not a machette or an axe.

This may be tough for you and Ray to take but, the blue riding gear may have to go!

We need to head to McCall. I'm dying to ride some new iron.

Frosty

 

[boondocker97]

I have a few buddies that all ride different makes of machines. One was riding a 09 M8, one on a 09 XP 800, and one on a 09 Polaris Dragon 800. They all can ride equally well and were in the same snow conditions together and each machine was completely stock. There was not one who could out climb the other and whichever one got the jump off the line in the drag race got the win at the finish. Bottom line, they all are capable machines. Comes down to preference and what riding style you are used to.

 

[WatchThis!!!]

You are bang on as just because its new, doesn't mean its better. I was told that with a Doo that you have to learn to ride different....in other words don't nut it off the line because a belt will burn ....great, I like drag racing with my buddies but I have to learn to ride differently....all I can say is I better carry a truck load of belts....The 159 inch track on a Doo I tried couldn't even spin the track.....NICE!!! I think that after sitting on an XP with a snow check Boss seat, this felt the best of all sleds. I did not consider Yammi as I still am not a four stroke fan...yet....and they are just way too heavy and I weigh 210.

Thats rediculous! I "nut" it ALL the time and its an absolute torque monster. Ski's go straight up. And what the he!! do you mean a truck load of belts? Every sled has room for improvement in the clutching category! Then you're even more ahead!

Oh, and Ski-Doos don't come with a snowcheck boss seat. That just shows that you don't know what you're talking about!

Rant OVER!

Jay

 

[stalefish_132]

really i wouldn't hesitate to go buy a XP. 08-09. problems have been adressed and if its got warrentee then why not? had engine troubles with my 07 but the new 08 crate engine is runnin strong.

my had has 2 m8's-08 and 07. i've put quite a few miles on both. both M8's havn't had a lick of troubble but i cant get used to the cat's. they are deffinatly alot more front heavy and the 15 wide track is deffinatly a handicap over the 16 in the doo's. both M's are 153's and my doo is a 159 so quite a bit more track but still.

buy an XP and go though it and ride it, you'll love it. i know in the first 5 minutes i tried a XP last year i fell in love.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Thats rediculous! I "nut" it ALL the time and its an absolute torque monster. Ski's go straight up. And what the he!! do you mean a truck load of belts? Every sled has room for improvement in the clutching category! Then you're even more ahead!

Oh, and Ski-Doos don't come with a snowcheck boss seat. That just shows that you don't know what you're talking about!

Rant OVER!

Jay

For your info a boss seat WAS available on an 09 XP. Maybe it because you didn't snowcheck a Doo? This proves that even if you bought an XP, you don't even know what was available or what you bought. Start finding out the facts before you say I don't know what I am talking about. Oh and thanks for supporting the CDN economy.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

Thats rediculous! I "nut" it ALL the time and its an absolute torque monster. Ski's go straight up. And what the he!! do you mean a truck load of belts? Every sled has room for improvement in the clutching category! Then you're even more ahead!

Oh, and Ski-Doos don't come with a snowcheck boss seat. That just shows that you don't know what you're talking about!

Rant OVER!

Jay

Oh WatchThis, FYI call Bow Cycle in Calgary and ask sales just what kind of a seat was available.....the seat I sat on was a Boss seat and it was 8LBS lighter than a regular Non snow checked XP. I guess the sales guy didn't know what he was talking about either..not sure about him but he did seem to know what he was talking about___I guess you got the boat anchor seat since you don't know what you are talking about or what you received for that matter.

 

[winter brew]

HUH? Cat had the sno-check Boss seats...not Doo. Stock XP seat doesn't even weigh 8 lbs.....Boss saves about 2 lbs. on our scale.
Not sure what this has to do with this thread???

Anyway, got some miles on the '09 XP and it has to be the best stock sled I've been on, just some clutching and ditch the swaybar and this is the easiest to ride and lightest feeling sled out there. Highly recomend you check it out Frostbite. Have also had Polaris, Yami and Cat in the last 3 years so no brand bias here.

 

[HOLLYWOOD1]

really i wouldn't hesitate to go buy a XP. 08-09. problems have been adressed and if its got warrentee then why not? had engine troubles with my 07 but the new 08 crate engine is runnin strong.

my had has 2 m8's-08 and 07. i've put quite a few miles on both. both M8's havn't had a lick of troubble but i cant get used to the cat's. they are deffinatly alot more front heavy and the 15 wide track is deffinatly a handicap over the 16 in the doo's. both M's are 153's and my doo is a 159 so quite a bit more track but still.

buy an XP and go though it and ride it, you'll love it. i know in the first 5 minutes i tried a XP last year i fell in love.

The problem with warranties is that if it is being warrantied for a clutch which should be dialed in before it is crated it takes one off the hill. This kind of Beta Testing is just not acceptable. I would love to try an XP and I know that it would be the bomb but I really have a problem with a tax payer subsidized company it just goes against my my principles

 

[WatchThis!!!]

Oh WatchThis, FYI call Bow Cycle in Calgary and ask sales just what kind of a seat was available.....the seat I sat on was a Boss seat and it was 8LBS lighter than a regular Non snow checked XP. I guess the sales guy didn't know what he was talking about either..not sure about him but he did seem to know what he was talking about___I guess you got the boat anchor seat since you don't know what you are talking about or what you received for that matter.

My 1 yo nephew could hold my XP seat with one hand! You must be thinking about the cat seats. You're confused hollywood.

 

[Jonny Rocket]

Thanks guys, the M100 in the M7 chassis idea sounds interesting.

J, I still love my RX-1 and (I'll probably keep it) but, it's time for something new in the stablle. It may be a Doo, it may be a Poo or maybe a Cat unless Yamaha blows my socks off for 2010. I love Yamaha reliability but I want a ginshu knife this time around not a machette or an axe.

This may be tough for you and Ray to take but, the blue riding gear may have to go!

We need to head to McCall. I'm dying to ride some new iron.

Frosty

If you are keeping the ton, then the blue gear will have to stay with it.

It sounds like a bunch of peps are going to McCall mid Jan. Might be a good time to go. Then there is the Annual McCall ride in mid Feb.

J.

 

[stalefish_132]

The problem with warranties is that if it is being warrantied for a clutch which should be dialed in before it is crated it takes one off the hill. This kind of Beta Testing is just not acceptable. I would love to try an XP and I know that it would be the bomb but I really have a problem with a tax payer subsidized company it just goes against my my principles

my buddy i ride with, XP 154 bone stock other than a can. no vents, 3200km on the original 166 belt that came with it out of the crate. he played with the clutching a bit but it was rode hard, very hard and no belt issues.

 

[High Velocity]

The 98 RMK is not an ice age sled, it holds it own against anything.....

Does your brain even know what your mouth is saying ? A '98 RMK doesn't have a snowball's chance in hell against any of the new crop of mountain sleds (unless it has tens of thousands in mods), and I'm a long time Polaris guy. Also better check your sources, because the XP did not come with a Boss seat as a snowcheck option.

 

[HANDSOME]

I am the same boat Frosty, not in a hurry and not brand loyal but if the xp just needs some clutching and gearing to get rid of the belt issues it is the one for me.The throttle response of a cylinder reed engine is a huge fun factor as well. I will keep the one ton as well but my 01 800 zx is a ball so an xp would have to be a riot. I really like the Dragon as well but it sounds like fuel mapping is not dialed as of yet .

 

[kane13]

my buddy i ride with, XP 154 bone stock other than a can. no vents, 3200km on the original 166 belt that came with it out of the crate. he played with the clutching a bit but it was rode hard, very hard and no belt issues.

Tell him to check the clearance maybe its time for a new belt, no belt will last that long no matter which brand without clearance issues tell him its time to buck up and his sled will work way better, hell tell him its time to take a look at his clutch too. lol.

 

[Slick]

my buddy i ride with, XP 154 bone stock other than a can. no vents, 3200km on the original 166 belt that came with it out of the crate. he played with the clutching a bit but it was rode hard, very hard and no belt issues.

3200 km, now thats funny. LOL.