Why Can't Lightweight and Reliability Exist in the same sled?

[Frostbite]

I have to tell you I have been researching the daylights out of all the new sleds. I plan on buying a new sled either now or in the spring and I want to know every last detail about all the prospective mountains sleds. I tend to keep my new sleds for a longer time than most it seems, and I want to ride as many of these new sleds as possible to see what "fits" best for me.

I just love the weight of the new Skidoos XP Summits (429lbs for a 154") and I figured the 08 gremlins more than likely had been slayed by now until I went to Dootalk and read about all the issues with the 09 XP sleds. I won't go into them because I don't want to bash but, can't a guy buy a lightweight sled that's dependable? I love the idea of the ETEC and I hope there is a king size version for 2010.

My Yamaha RX-1M has been reliable as a stone but, I'm not getting any younger and I'm looking for a true lightweight sled this time around. The idea of using boost to make a sled feel light somehow doesn't appeal to me as I have been sidehilling and being sucked down the hill by the shear weight of the sled. To be a total hypocrit, reliablity means an awful lot to me too and if I can't find a new one I can count on I'll probably buy someone's lightweight and boosted Nytro.

I love the white M8 and M1000 Snow Pros too but, I don't really want to turbo an M8 (I wonder about the long term health of a turboed two stroke). The M1000 really appeals to me but, all the magazines tend to say they like the M8 much better, WTF? It will take a demo ride to find out for sure.

I really don't know that much about the Polaris RMKs and don't typically ride with guys that have them so another demo ride is certainly in order. The 800 Dragon really appeals to me but, time alone with a sled will tell me a lot.

Bottom line is: I want a sled light enough and powerful enough to have a great power to weight ratio (without boost) that I can depend upon day in and day out for years to come.

I'm not at all opposed to installing an aftermarket y pipe, fuel controller, lightweight silencer or a single pipe to save weight and boost power as long as relaibility doesn't decrease dramtically,and from what research I have done it seems the Arctic Cats tend to bennefit the most (hp increase wise)from these bolt on items.

I have to tell you, the idea of going back to a two stroke (unless it's direct injected like ETEC) somehow seems like going backward to me in some respects.

Enough of my twisted ramblings! Tell me what sled to buy!

Frosty

 

[F-Bomb]

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[Frostbite]

Nice! Thanks for the eye candy!

My wallet hurts just looking at it but, I am prepared to spend enough money to get the right sled.

Frosty

 

[Ov3rthetop]

I hear you

I feel the exact same way. See truth be known I am a true polaris fan but idk if I want the stock assault which is what I would buy. I like the reliability and the economy side of the Apex's I like the fuel mileage and resale value. Im just not ready to go to the fourstroke quite yet. I really dont want to have to turbo and lighten up a sled right away to stay up with my friends and i like doing cliff drops so I dont know about the weight if I do happen to land wrong. Last year at west I rode the NYTRO and I just didnt like it plain and simple. The xp is great I have a few buddies that ride them and they love them its just as you said constant little problems with them. The M series sleds are great but I just dont like how they feel. To me and remember this is my own opinion they feel a little flat. Thats why this year im not purchasing a new or used sled. I have a 02 summit but the guy I bought it form ran to much nitrous through it and not enough oil in it and screwed up the pistons and cylinders. I can ride the sled its just every 10 miles I have to change the plugs because they are way to oil fouled. I dont want to be in the middle of a climb and have the motor sputter and pop.

Thats why over this next year im going to build my own sled the way I want it. You can build a lightweight reliable sled for under 12000 which is what I paid for my 900 with accs. I plan on doing a IQR one because there is noone around here with one and I like the strength of the chassis. Overall im not happy what the manufactuers put out. Well i shoudnt say that I guess im just not satisfied what 10000 buys stock these days. But thats just my own opinion.

 

[NickH440]

I was also faced with this decision last year. I wanted a lightweight powerful sled that wasn't going to give me any trouble. I had no intention of adding any aftermarket parts mostly because it was a money issue(I'm a student). I tried the apex, and found it to heavy, I felt fatigued after a short time riding. The m8 I tried was very impressive, it was easy to sidehill and the fit and finish was good. But after trying the apex and after a New XP summit, the m8 felt underpowered. Unfortunately, I couldn't find an RMK to test, so I went and bought a new 146 Summit XP.

I immediately fell in love with the sled, the light weight made it so maneaverable and the power was great. At first comapred to the m8 it was harder to handle, but after 4-5 hours of powder riding, I felt that the sled had made me a better rider, and I could take it anywhere I could have went on the m8.

I kept reading online about the issue's with the 08's, but mine was working fine. At about 1200km I blew a belt while climbing on a very mild day. I brought my sled in for service this summer, and the dealer notice my track was beginning to delaminate, and it was replaced under warranty, a long with my driveshft(which i had no problems with).

My two buddies, with the m8 and apex didn't have any major problems. I would give the nod to reliability to them for sure. But in pure stock performance, we agreed that the summit came out ahead. I contributed the problems with the summit XP's mostly to just the amount of sleds out there.

Good luck with your decision!

 

[winter brew]

Spend enough time on a XP to get used to the chasis and all others will feel primative and more dificult to ride. The '09's aren't having the issues of the '08, really a good all-around sled.

 

[SaberKitty]

M8. Leave it stock. Pull & go for years.

 

[Frostbite]

Great points guys!

Yes, based on the hp they are pushing and the sheer lack of weight the XP should be killing everything out there stock for stock. In fact, I want one but....... I want one without problems AND a bumper to bumper three year warranty from BRP to prove they are serious in their quest to build a quality product. Without an all inclusive extended warranty of some sort I'd run from a new XP like a scared school girl.

It's tough to commit to a sled right now because there are so many EPA related changes being driven for a couple manufacturers for 2010. I expect the 2010 model year changes to be most dramatic since 2003.

Just give me a lightweight snow rocket I can depend upon for years to come and I'll follow you to the ends of the earth (if you back it up with a great warranty).

Frosty

PS: Saberkitty Green is the new RED!

 

[duke1n]

Spend enough time on a XP to get used to the chasis and all others will feel primative and more dificult to ride. The '09's aren't having the issues of the '08, really a good all-around sled.

What makes the XP better than the REV?

 

[mezz250x]

x2 on the M8. I finnally got to ride mine last weekend out in the snowies and i was amazed at what a stock 800 153" could do. Granted im coming off a 02 ZR chassis, but the m8 is so easy to ride and very nimble. I only weigh prolly 180-190 with all my gear on and i can throw the sled all over and weave it uphill through the trees not a problem. Also when we were out there last weekend one of my friends has a 05 m7 with a Cutler 1000 in it and a 156 challenger extreme, we found a good hill with fresh pow to climb on, he went up and made his mark. I went up after he got down and drove past his mark by about 20 feet, coulda went higher but i made my point so i turned out. Very immpressed with this sled and would highly recomend it to anyone. The differences from the previous years to the 09 are easily noticable by "the seat of your pants."

 

[Superdutytd]

The m1000 is an all around blast to ride. Go and ride one and if you're a power junky you'll love it. And they aren't that heavy

 

[chazzer]

Stock sled, buy an XP! Wont beat 'em with a GOOD setup. I've had little or few problems and my sled was a 'demo' in our group of ridders. If you want to look for people with problems, you will find them, on ANY SLED!!!

If your going to mod into some bigger things, then get a
cat!

Nuff said.....

Chaz

 

[Frostbite]

Yes, a 2009 M8 sounds like the ticket.

If only it had the Polaris or Skidoo 800 motor and the extra 10 to 12 hp on tap, it would be awesome! Yes, the aftermarket brings the M8 up to 160 hp but, that Skidoo's and Polaris are darn near there stock. That's why the M1000 with 160+ hp stock sounds better to me but, with that hp comes an extra 30+ pounds of weight.

A 2009 M1000 Sno Pro with the Powerclaw, the 20+ pound weight loss over the 08 model and the telescoping handlebars (I hope that idea makes it to other brands next year) should be the stock sled to beat. Even these sleds have issues with belt eating, the 4,000 RPM bog, etc. How many years have the M1000s been around? Since 2007? Shouldn't all the bugs be worked out by now?

Give me proven performance with light weight and stand behind it, is all I ask.

Frosty

 

[winter brew]

What makes the XP better than the REV?

Duke, the XP is far better in the deep, it keeps the front down and keeps going where the Rev chassis likes to get "nose-up" and tends to trench more.
Have done alot of side by side comparisons and our stock '09 XP with 163 and 35 mph track speed with go higher than our 159 Rev spinning 45+ mph track speed on a steep/deep climb....the chassis and lighter weight just makes it work better. XP with good clutching and it puts a HUGE hurt on the Rev. I still like my Rev though, just a fun to ride sled that does everything good, more fun to ride than the XP unless the snow is bottomless IMO.

 

[stonehands]

Well h#ll Frosty since your not asking for much i will grant you your wish. M8 gonna be a sweet sled. The new tracks gonna rule the hill I think. I don't personally like how they feel. Stock there a bit dosile feeling. I think they climb great and all but I like the fact that I can stand my xp on it tail and hotdog around like a dirtbike.

As far as warranty I loved it on my 05 900 poo not that I ever needed it but it made me feel safe. I like to tinker with my sled and try to perfect it's little imperfections.

If I was going to buy a new stock sled for the warranty with all of the best features then it would have to be the Dragon 800. In my opinion the most predictable platform of the three. Plus you can install pipe and can and maintain waranty which gains performance and looses weight.

Defoam the under hood, throw in a couple of vents and call Mark for a clutch kit and you will be amazed how much fun it is to ride. Did I mention it would still have warranty.

I love my XP but I'm pretty sure if I brought it in for warranty work they would take my beer away.

 

[stonehands]

Winterbrew do you have a new track on your rev? I'm thinking that rock hard track on the rev would be a serious disadvantage in the steep and deep. Just a thought as to why it sucks in the pow.

 

[AKSNOWRIDER]

well if I was going for 1 sled to perform, be as light as possible and ridable in as many different conditions as possible while being totally reliable..I would call carls cycle and get an 09 D-8 with carls lightening stuff and 860 pump gas single..have heard this sled rocks and is bullet proof....and I doubt it would cost you more then 16-17 grand if you went straight to carls for the sled and mods....

 

[m8magicandmystery]

love my m8 but i tell ya...ya cant go wrong with the dragons or ski-doo

 

[Bacon]

Buy a 09 M8 snopro and put on an SLP pipe. Your done and this sled flat out works. The new powerclaw is nothing short of amazing. We just got back from Cooke and I was riding against a 09 xp 163 with an SLP pipe, an 08 xp 154 with pipe, head, and nitrous. My M8 outperformed these sleds and it was quite noticable by how much. It surprised me as well as the Doo guys. It is amazing how Cat can improve a sled that much from one year to the next.

 

[Frostbite]

First off, I'm impressed at how far this post has gone without turning into a bash session. Thanks

Now Bacon, if the M8 with the new powerclaw is that awesome. Can you imagine how awesome a 2009 M1000 Sno Pro would be? It might even give those Yamaha turbo boys a run for their money?

The D8 (doesn't that sound like a Cat.. Catapillar?) that's the unknown sled to me. I will get my legs wrapped around one and see how it feels.

I'd love to ride a XP 163 X, a D8 and both a M8 and M1000 all with pipes and lightweight cans in one boondocking and hillclimbing setting.

Power to weight........ how much hp does a XP have to have to compete power to weight wise with a turboed Apex or Nytro?

Frosty