What's Happening To Big Bores?

[Hillboy]

I'm close to one for every style and day
iq 685 is the daily ride
edge 1200 WC 166 deep pow and no brain days
770 UB wedge spring rock sled

 

[Snorider]

Ok i had to read awhile to catch up on what has been going on in here, and drooled a couple times, but I want to either replace my motor or big bore my 700. I have her pushed right to the line of needing race fuel right now, but thats the line i don't think i am ready to cross yet, since i think i would probably have to buy more than one barrel a season.

but what options do i have open to me with my old iron with out getting into the power i really want that requires race fuel? Because if i could get a big bore with twins to be rock solid as my 7 with twins that would be sweet. Cause wrench time on the hill is basically zero except for adjusting weights to gain some rpms and leaning out a little when spring comes.

But when i get home in the shop, that is a competely different story, cause every week it hits the mircoscope.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

What brand of 700 are you running? I've wondered for a few years if going higher compression and 35% race fuel is really worth it. I've seen a few dynosheets on the sled I've been running. 182HP with high compression running 60/40 or 177HP running lower compression and pump gas. I'm not sure a whopping 5HP can even be felt in the seat of the pants. Not sure it's worth the extra $10.00 per ride? The only modded (big bored) 700 that has ever really turned my head was SLP's mountain max 800 package.

 

[NoSecondChances]

I'm not sure a whopping 5HP can even be felt in the seat of the pants. Not sure it's worth the extra $10.00 per ride?

No, you won't feel 5 HP in a 130 HP sled, its less than 4% increase. He is better to go to NOS, it will still cost him $10/ride but he could use a 30 shot and get a greater effect. Besides, NOS is easy to use at a single moment in time, but race fuel and detonation will plague the motor at all times and you have to be so much more careful all the time with it (what elevation you are running, what blend of fuel to use, etc). With regular compression you can start at sea level and ride to elevation, then hit the button and climb the same hill as you can with the high comp motor in most cases. Higher compression on a stock motor will likely be the death of it. Snorider, in order to get more jam you will have to big bore, or just enjoy what you have. Higher comp generally works only on motors designed for it, which are the big bores. But you could big bore that motor probably and have it still be rock solid. you'll have to ask around and see what some others have done.

 

[maluchm]

Don't know what all the fuss is about. Mine works awesome. Maybe I just have a decent engine builder....

Not many true 'engine builders' left.

I'll second that! My personal preference are the Doo triples and finding someone that still likes to work with them out here is getting harder and harder I think. At least there's still a bunch of good old time engine builders back east that love to pull BIG power from the triples.

 

[AdrenalineAddict]

I haven't seen a big triple on the mountain all season. They used to give me a thrill just watching them run, I hope they're not extinct. The few fellas I know that used to run them have gone turbo. I know some of those old well kept triples are collecting cobwebs in some local shops. I'm sure the price would be right!!

 

[mattymac]

I haven't seen a big triple on the mountain all season. They used to give me a thrill just watching them run, I hope they're not extinct. The few fellas I know that used to run them have gone turbo. I know some of those old well kept triples are collecting cobwebs in some local shops. I'm sure the price would be right!!

The turbo power is awesome for me especially at really high altitude! For the longer WOT runs it screams but in a drag race, the trees, or tight technical spots where you need lotsa power RIGHT NOW the turbo has a bit to be desired, and if your runnin a twin it had better be 1000cc's +++ cause theres no way to run with the big tripples!

tiny 38mm carbs, 12.5 to 1 CR, stock VES cyls, stock porting pump gas and go all day long 230hp, my watercraft will snap belts and break chains, imagine if I built it up a little bit

It takes one hell of a twin to break the 200hp mark being naturally asperated, and if their turboed it will NEVER have the grunt as these motors make, NOT EVEN CLOSE!

 

[high time]

I think I've got the one........

The one big bore worth the effort.
The only thing is it's in a King Cat ,but that's OK with me for now. My son and I bored the 900 to fit the new 1000 pistons case and cylinder porting 44mm carbs , reeds, 13 to 1 heads, Jaws D-pipes, etc , etc.
The new style recoil is a joy. This thing starts easy , it's not fussy to tune, it even gets better fuel mileage than the old 862. I easily has thirty to fourty HP more. With the Camo Extreme on backwards it hooks up and goes. Hang on and lean over the windshield.
It's too bad I can't figure out how to put this motor into an M or XP.

Owen

 

[Hillboy]

Paul Mcloud still works on doo triples, he is the one who started Union bay before he sold out about 4 years ago and now they are toast. He is the man on the doo triples.

Hill

I'll second that! My personal preference are the Doo triples and finding someone that still likes to work with them out here is getting harder and harder I think. At least there's still a bunch of good old time engine builders back east that love to pull BIG power from the triples.

 

[maluchm]

Paul Mcloud still works on doo triples, he is the one who started Union bay before he sold out about 4 years ago and now they are toast. He is the man on the doo triples.

Hill

Yup, got one of his motors....just need a good chassis for it!

From the last conversation I had with him over the phone MRE is mainly focused on full tilt race motors. The MRE 1000's are a force on the asphalt here in the states and over seas.

 

[NoSecondChances]

.... imagine if I built it up a little bit

What are you waiting for?

LOL

If I had the money, I'd have a huge triple, maybe a Cutler 1800. Don't care about reliable, just to have it and ride it now then to scare the crap out of me, especially on the hero snow, point it and squeeze, let off somewhere near the top so you don't go into orbit, then figure out how you are gonna get down!!!!!!

 

[mattymac]

What are you waiting for?

LOL

If I had the money, I'd have a huge triple, maybe a Cutler 1800. Don't care about reliable, just to have it and ride it now then to scare the crap out of me, especially on the hero snow, point it and squeeze, let off somewhere near the top so you don't go into orbit, then figure out how you are gonna get down!!!!!!

I like just having stock parts on my motor, this thing is totally 100% reliable and with being stock it can still break things! Probably one of the best NA high HP motors out there but most people dont get a chance to ride em to know what they can do.

Cutlers big tripple days are over, he's mostly all turbo/twin stuff mainly because thats what the masses want. His big block machined case design had a big flaw in it that kept cranks from living. CR Racing has the ultamate bottom end for the cat twin into tripple cyl setups that have proven themselves! Same concept as the poo WC motors but with a custom built and expensive set of cases.

 

[maluchm]

Cutlers big tripple days are over, he's mostly all turbo/twin stuff mainly because thats what the masses want.

Long live the triples

 

[Idcatman3]

If you have a lathe and are decent at welding aluminum, building a set of cases like the CR Racing case isn't all that difficult. We had a buddy with a nice lathe make us a shaft the diameter of the crank bearings for a 900 cat, cut two junk cases apart, bolted a cylinder across them and welded them up. Didn't cost all that much.

 

[mattymac]

I think without core cases they were around 5200.00!!!!!!! thirty something hundred if you supplied the two sets of cases!!!

did it eventually run?

 

[Idcatman3]

Currently in the process of building pipes. Sucks when I can only put ~3 days a month into the project, and have to bug my dad to help me

 

[mattymac]

what about motor mounts? who did the crank? stock 900 cyls? what ignition?

 

[Idcatman3]

The front motor mount we made from two stock ones, same as the case, then drilled extra holes in the bulkhead. PTO side mounts are stock. The rear mag side mount we had to completely fabricate, it doesn't look so good, but it works.

Had the crank put together at a shop here in Idaho Falls from two stock 900 cranks. Using 900 cylinders bored to take M1000 pistons.

For ignition, we've got a newer T-cat stator, a '99 T-cat CDI (which has the slight possibility of being bad, we're not 100% sure) and we modified a stock 900 flywheel with ignition contacts every 120°. We would have used a stock T-cat flywheel (and might still) but the timing sensor is in a different location on the T-cat, so we are trying this first.

Also have a custom made one piece head, and a set of supreme tool exhaust valves on it.

 

[NoSecondChances]

CR Racing has the ultamate bottom end for the cat twin into tripple cyl setups that have proven themselves! Same concept as the poo WC motors but with a custom built and expensive set of cases.

Yeah, I hear ya. I just threw the CPC 1800 out there becuz it is one of the biggest, could have said PSI 1800 but.....nevermind. Scott is probably shaking his head right now!! LOL

CR's stuff is nice and all, didn't like the 1515 that they built. Too many issues with it, could have been the rider. I know Chad has a lot of time into the 1720 and its working well. I think Linderman would be my choice if I was to go really big though. Had the 1404 T-cat, pulled like a train but lots of tuning required. I'm interested in the WC stuff but am not at a point where I want to be working with it. Living in AB about 3 hrs from the mountains is a hard gig when you have to travel so far to ride, when I get there all I want to do is ride, not wrench too much.

Being from southern BC originally, I could ride from the driveway into about 30 kms of roads/terrain and was only 20 mins to most riding areas with the truck, so breaking or tuning wasn't a big deal when you're that close to home. Something goes wrong, throw it on the truck and drive home. Your day wasn't wasted. Buddy just popped his motor on Saturday, drove 3 hrs to BC in the morning and then rode for 6, dropped it back on the trailer and drove another 3 home to AB. Hard to justify that much travelling for 6 hrs riding now. Any trip there is not wasted but only being able to get out twice a month vs 3-4 times a week makes the time I do get out more precious.

Therefore my apprehension about getting into something that could possibly diminish riding time. So one day if I move back home or when I get another sled that I can use a back up then I will be building a monster that I can play with (jury's still out on if it will be a twin or a triple, or a WC, but it will be over 1100cc for sure ), cuz if it breaks then I can always ride the backup when we are out there. Hopefully the big bores are still there when I am ready... Until then....I can only dream (and live vicariously through you).

 

[flying pig]

NoSecondChances I'm in Grande prairie and I run a 1200wc. Do it! I've had mine since march of 06. they're a very good motor. If everything is done right you can trail them very easy at low altitude too. In kakwa we ride almost 60 miles of trail at about 4000ft every time we go in. must have done it a hundred times on mine this year. When we get snow at home I ride it there too occasionally. Just add a bit of av and ritchen it up a bit. No big deal! I don't even change my clutching! Let er rev. Ain't gonna hurt a thing! lol.
I've seen a cutler 1515, liked what I saw there too, only rode with him for a few hours though.
Notime said it best, riding stock is like being gay. i just can't get into it. lol.
I still think the big triple works the best. even a medium weight triple in a light chassis will run with the turbo yamis in huge snow and stupid steep slopes. Especially if you have to ride to get over the top. I saw it lots this winter (and it wasn't me who did it either, for the most part).
throw an m-10 in an old girl and your back will thank you too. Very Nice!
And the old guy thing is out the window too. Some young guns do want to learn the old ways. there's a group up here who are almost all under 25 who ride everything from modded 800's to 780/809's to 1200 triples. I'm only 22, I've had a 700 twin with pipes and minor mods, a 1140 twin and now the 1200. kinda depends on what your idea of fun is, that's all.

Marks in the left chute there are from my 1200. The sled on the hill is a mod doo zx800.